stuart lawrence
Well-Known Member
It has everything to do with it. Verse 16&17 if heb 10 are to do with the fact Christ died for our sins
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It has everything to do with it. Verse 16&17 if heb 10 are to do with the fact Christ died for our sinsNo offense, but I don't see what this has to do with my point.
But you in your heart want to obey God, it ids your flesh that doesn't, for your flesh was not born againWanting to disobey, and knowing something is a sin are two different things. I know lying is a sin, but I still want to lie. IOW the law is written on my heart, but God still has a work to do in me.
How many covenants are there? I only know of twoYou can't have one part of the prophecy be after the resurrection and another part be about the NT.
This is the covenant i will make with them after that time declares the lord.No offense, but I don't see what this has to do with my point.
I agree with that. It has nothing to do with my point. Please follow the arrows back and read my point again.It has everything to do with it. Verse 16&17 if heb 10 are to do with the fact Christ died for our sins
Those under the old covenant relied on Christs death at Calvary to attain heaven the same as we do now. For as David said:I personally think that those under the Old Covenant were FULLY made perfect just as those under the New Covenant. This is because Christ's sacrifice worked backwards in time as well as forwards.
The Old Covenant never promised Salvation. The deal God made with the Children of Israel was that they could live in the promised land. You'll notice that heaven is never mentioned in the Torah.
The New Covenant does not give us a license to disobey. Christ said the Law would not pass away until heaven and earth passed away. Last time I checked outside my front door, the earth was still there. Jews must still obey Mosaic law, and Gentiles obey Natural law as described in the NT.
Of course. It's like Paul said, the things I want to do I don't do, and the things I don't want to do, I do. Sigh*But you in your heart want to obey God, it ids your flesh that doesn't, for your flesh was not born again
I deal mainly with the two main ones, but there are more. For example there is the Noahic Covenant, where God promises never to destroy the earth again by flood, and marks the covenant with a rainbow.How many covenants are there? I only know of two
I am sure you agree with me, a time is coming when all Israel will be saved. At that time verse 34 you mentions will be in effect. They will all know God, therefore no one will have to teach their neighbour about knowing him
I totally understand. But this has nothing to do with my point. My point is that the old covenant involved obedience, therefore it was not specific to the new covenant, not novel, and therefore although it is important, it's not really what you would call core.This is the covenant i will make with them after that time declares the lord.
I will write my laws in their minds and place them on their hearts
Then he adds
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more
And where these have been forgiven
sacrifice for sins I no longer necessary
Heb 10:16-18
So all of the above is a covenant where sacrifices for sin are no longer necessary. When did sacrifices for sin cease to be necessary? When the old covenant ended and the new one began at calvary
The old covenant did involve obedience, but the Israelites in their hearts who were under that covenant most of the tine did not want in their hearts to obey.I totally understand. But this has nothing to do with my point. My point is that the old covenant involved obedience, therefore it was not specific to the new covenant, not novel, and therefore although it is important, it's not really what you would call core.
I agree thatThe law hasn't been done away with. It has been transferred onto the heart of the believer
Under the new covenant the christian has a righteousness apart from the law. If that was all the new covenant hinged on the christian then has a licence to sin, for sin is transgression of the law.I totally understand. But this has nothing to do with my point. My point is that the old covenant involved obedience, therefore it was not specific to the new covenant, not novel, and therefore although it is important, it's not really what you would call core.
Deut 30:6 is speaking of the new covenant, it cones after Moses has prophecied the Israelites would be exiled from the land and returned to itI agree that
1. The New Covenant has always been in force, that Christ's atonement worked backwards in time.
2. That the Law hasn't been done away with.
I think there were always for whom the law became reflexive, a matter of the heart, especially those trained from childhood. Deuteronomy 30:6 promises that God would circumcise the heart as part of the Mosaic covenant.
I don't think its different today than then. We want to be good people, but we are always tempted and we stumble. I know I certainly struggle with sin. Christians are just as likely to worship the gods of sex, power, and money. I find that most Christians are morally mediocre and some are downright nasty. Many brought up in the Church leave the faith; I did for a while and then came back, but many leave permanently. In my life, I've known only one Christian man willing to wait until marriage for sex. I'm so gosh darn tired of fighting over it that I no longer date.The old covenant did involve obedience, but the Israelites in their hearts who were under that covenant most of the tine did not want in their hearts to obey.
Whereas ALL those who are under the new covenant do in their hearts want to obey, for the law has been placed on their heart
You should become a protestant, you're too stubborn!( only joking)
No it's not. Read Deut 30:6 in context with 30:5 and you will see that it is part of the promises of the Old Covenant. There is nothing in the Torah that speaks of a New Covenant.Deut 30:6 is speaking of the new covenant, it cones after Moses has prophecied the Israelites would be exiled from the land and returned to it
BTW
How many works must one do to be sure of inheriting eternal life? Can you put a figure on it? Only if you cant how can you ever know if you have done enough? How can a christian then have any peace or assurance in this life of eternal security in the hereafter?
Can I ask you? According to official doctrine of the catholic church. What core doctrine does the new covenant hinge on? What is the core foundation of the new covenant on which the christian faith stands
The core of the new covenant is heb 10:16&17This makes no sense to me. Either the New Covenant is a covenant, meaning that it follows the five working principles of a covenant, or it is not. Would you explain what you are getting at please?
Butbif you tie good works to attaining heaven you'll never know if you did enough.It's not a question of quantity. Get that thinking out of your mind. It is about simple faithfulness to where you are right now. The idea of "how many" supposes the idea that a certain amount makes us "finished" or "perfect" and then we can go forward to receive the prize. That is not it. Our lives are a journey in to holiness, and that journey is not finished in this life.
Doing good works is simply doing what we have been told to do. There is no quantity about obedience.
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