True Christians

JJWhite · Mar 22, 2011

b&wpac7 said:
The difference is that, if it's like what I was told, it was like a magic charm. You'd get 10x back whatever you gave. In money or at least monetary value.

We have a similar concept. The minimum 'blessing' of any good deed is ten times the deed up to however many times God blesses you with... could depend on how hard it was for you to do it... how much sincerity was present during the deed... etc.. but the multiplied blessing/reward could be in this world or the next. One analogy for charity given in the Qur'an is like planting a seed and the seed grows into 7 stalks of wheat and each stalk has 100 more seeds... so the blessing of your deed was like 700x.

We have many tales recorded in our books of people who gave something and received ten times of the same thing back. Maybe related to what they gave?

However it works, it's good to share what we have and give where it looks beneficial.

JJWhite · Mar 22, 2011

But.. I agree that institutions shouldn't try to get rich by manipulating people with these promises found in religious texts... that's wrong.

b&wpac7 · Mar 22, 2011

JJWhite said:
Maybe related to what they gave?

You dont' view it as God's obligation to give it to you, right? It's His choice in the matter, right? And your motivation shouldn't be "I'm giving this for profit!"

JJWhite · Mar 22, 2011

b&wpac7 said:
You dont' view it as God's obligation to give it to you, right? It's His choice in the matter, right? And your motivation shouldn't be "I'm giving this for profit!"

You get rewarded when you give it for God... so if all you're thinking about is what you'll get back, you got a problem.

JJWhite · Mar 22, 2011

But... MAYBE you'll get rewarded for believing in God's promises.

These are just all motivators, and, in reality, we don't know. Sincerity is sometimes a hard thing to gauge, and that's a crucial factor when it comes to God accepting our efforts or not.

b&wpac7 · Mar 22, 2011

JJWhite said:
You get rewarded when you give it for God... so if all you're thinking about is what you'll get back, you got a problem.

That's basically my idea. If your idea is "Oooh, if I give 100 bucks, I'll get 1000 back!" then I don't think that's really the proper way to look at it.

razeontherock · Mar 22, 2011

Eudaimonist said:
we may be best suited to different professions. The profession that is good for me might not be good for you, and vice versa.

This doesn't mean that Hitler's good was being a dictator. His good may have been to be a painter.

I'll second that - Hitler for painter! A little late, but it looks like the OP was just interested in stirring up a hornet's nest and scramming. Think he envisioned invoking Godwin's law?

razeontherock · Mar 22, 2011

Justsomedude said:
I think this thread was off course by the second post. I have noticed that very few people have even addressed the central idea of the OP.

Oh well, I spoke too soon. People already addressed every point in your OP. Thoroughly.

Bottom line: we have one Judge, and He doesn't post here.

razeontherock · Mar 22, 2011

Jane_the_Bane said:
the conflict between the "Judaizers" of the Jerusalem Church and its Three Pillars and Paul's faction. Even if the conflict was as smoothly resolved as the author of Luke-Acts wants us to believe (in sharp contrast to some passages within the Pauline epistles that suggest an ongoing rivalry between the two sects), it's still a doctrinal split.

By the time one faction gained undisputed ascendancy, the face of Christianity had already changed significantly - in spite of what the Orthodox like to believe.

Unsubstantiated claim.

JJWhite · Mar 22, 2011

Ray!

JJWhite · Mar 22, 2011

b&wpac7 said:
That's basically my idea. If your idea is "Oooh, if I give 100 bucks, I'll get 1000 back!" then I don't think that's really the proper way to look at it.

God does use parables like 'giving God a goodly loan' in the Qur'aan.

razeontherock · Mar 22, 2011

Justsomedude said:
After reading this, I have come to the conclusion that Christianity is not a religion in it's own right but a group or class or religions. Baptists, Catholicism, Mormonism and Anglicanism are all religions that fall under the Christian class of relgions.

Correction: Christianity is a cult, born from within Judaism. A cult that shirked the yoke of written law, which makes it impossible to conceive of in terms of "religion;" at least as the word is normally used, which is a construct of man, ostensibly for the purpose of approaching G-d.

Whatever Christianity may or may not be - it's not that.

razeontherock · Mar 22, 2011

b&wpac7 said:
Sounds very familiar. I left Christianity when I was about 18 with very bitter feelings. It really isn't good to let that bitterness stay within you. It's hard because, if you are like me at the time, you feel somewhat betrayed by what has happened. Betrayed by the church, by family, perhaps even by Jesus. Growing up Christian, it's hard not to have a lot invested in Jesus, and if that faith cracks and crumbles it's like that investment is gone. There's doubt too. What if you were wrong? Did Jesus turn his back on you?

There's a lot of painful emotions wrapped all up in that.

Thanks for that! Definitely took the thread in the right direction ...

razeontherock · Mar 22, 2011

b&wpac7 said:
That's basically my idea. If your idea is "Oooh, if I give 100 bucks, I'll get 1000 back!" then I don't think that's really the proper way to look at it.

Sounds like the Gambler's version of Paschal's wager?

b&wpac7 · Mar 22, 2011

razeontherock said:
Thanks for that! Definitely took the thread in the right direction ...

With the ellipses I hope that wasn't sarcastic. Hard to tell without inflection.

razeontherock · Mar 22, 2011

No sarcasm. Especially posts 33 - 39 (on p 4) is some good, healthy stuff. I think there's a whole lot more where that came from, too

Justsomedude · Mar 22, 2011

razeontherock said:
I'll second that - Hitler for painter! A little late, but it looks like the OP was just interested in stirring up a hornet's nest and scramming.

I'm still here so how does it look like that?

Think he envisioned invoking Godwin's law?

I didn't.

Justsomedude · Mar 22, 2011

razeontherock said:
Correction: Christianity is a cult, born from within Judaism.

Not entirely. The central idea of Christianity, that G-d became man, is a foreign concept to Judaism and originated outside of Judaism. Also, many Christian beliefs, like heaven and Hell, an intermediary between G-d and man and damnation for sins did not come from Judaism.

A cult that shirked the yoke of written law, which makes it impossible to conceive of in terms of "religion;" at least as the word is normally used, which is a construct of man, ostensibly for the purpose of approaching G-d.

Whatever Christianity may or may not be - it's not that.

That is exactly what Christianity is in every last conceivable respect. What are talking about?

Justsomedude · Mar 22, 2011

b&wpac7 said:
Sounds very familiar. I left Christianity when I was about 18 with very bitter feelings. It really isn't good to let that bitterness stay within you. It's hard because, if you are like me at the time, you feel somewhat betrayed by what has happened. Betrayed by the church, by family, perhaps even by Jesus. Growing up Christian, it's hard not to have a lot invested in Jesus, and if that faith cracks and crumbles it's like that investment is gone. There's doubt too. What if you were wrong? Did Jesus turn his back on you?

There's a lot of painful emotions wrapped all up in that.

Remember that you have doubts with the religion, not all the people. I too had heard that if you give to the church you will get more back. But it could just be a mistaken pastor, or one that meant you would get back more spiritually or whatever.

If I'm way off, I'm sorry. Just thought I'd share.

Not, you actually hit the nail on the head for the most part except for I had doubts concerning both the people and the religion. I deconverted at 23 and at the time, I was so angry about everything. I had invested so much into Christiantiy and had been disappointed on every level. I remained an atheist for 12 years after that. Eventually though, I started seeking G-d again.

My younger brother and sister abandoned Christianity around the same time that I did. My sister has never looked back and I have never heard her say anything positive about religion that I can remember.

My brother hadn't completely given up yet and so drifted in and out protestant churches for a few years until eventually his feelings toward Christianity came to be just as negative as my own.

I have recently tried to influence him to start attending religious services again. He is less than enthusiastic about the idea.

b&wpac7 · Mar 22, 2011

Justsomedude said:
I have recently tried to influence him to start attending religious services again. He is less than enthusiastic about the idea.

What services are you planning to attend?

If you are seeking, what are your reasons for the rejection of Jesus?

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