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Trinity? No.

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JereReagan

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Where did I John 5:7 come from? Why is it found today in the King James Bible? And who put it there?

The editors of the "Critical and Experimental Commentary" were forced to admit this verse is NOT found in ANY of the old manuscripts of the Bible and was not found in the manuscripts of the Latin Vulgate until as late as the eighth century! Notice their confession:

"The only Greek MSS., IN ANY FORM, which support the words, "in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one: and there are three that bear witness in earth," are the Montfortianus of Dublin, copied from the MODERN Latin Vulgate; the Revianus, copied from the Complutensian Polyglot; a MS. at Naples, with the words added IN THE MARGIN BY A RECENT HAND; Ottobonianus, 298, of the FIFTEENTH CENTURY, the Greek of which is a TRANSLATION of the accompanying Latin. ALL THE OLD VERSIONS OMIT THE WORDS. The OLDEST MSS. of the Vulgate OMIT THEM, the earliest Vulgate MS. which has them being Wizanburgensis, 99, of the EIGHTH CENTURY.

Even Adam Clarke confesses in his "Commentary": "But it is likely this verse is NOT GENUINE. It is wanting in every MS. of this epistle written BEFORE the invention of printing, one excepted, the "Codex Montfortii", in Trinity College, Dublin

Clarke continues, "It is wanting in both the Syriac, all the Arabic, Ethiopic, the Coptic, Sahidic, Armenian, Slavonian, etc., in a word, IN ALL THE ANCIENT VERSIONS but the "Vulgate"; and even of this version many of the most ancient and correct MSS. have it not. It is wanting also in ALL THE ANCIENT GREEK FATHERS; and in most even of the Latin."

How, then, did it creep into the text of the King James Version? Hear the voice of History:

I John 5:7 "... is not contained in any Greek manuscript which was written earlier than the fifth century. It is not cited by ANY of the Greek ecclesiastical writers; nor by any of the early Latin fathers, even when the subjects upon which they treated would naturally have led them to appeal to its authority. IT IS THEREFORE evidently SPURIOUS; and was first cited (though not as it now reads) by Virgilius Tapsensis, a Latin writer of no credit, in the latter end of the fifth century, but by whom FORGED, is of no great moment, as its design must be obvious to all." (The Emphatic Diaglott.)

Trinitarians grasp at I John 5:7 as a last straw to support their doctrine because NO OTHER SCRIPTURE IN ALL THE BIBLE CAN LEND CREDENCE to the pagan doctrine of a tri-une God!

The doctrine of "God in three Persons" is not Biblical! It originated in ancient paganism!

Babylonish and Oriental religions have LONG believed in triune divinities -- father, mother and child. The Egyptians worshiped Isis, Osiris, and Horus; the Babylonians deified the archrebel Nimrod, his wife Semiramis, and her illegitimate son Horus, known also as Gilgamesh. The widespread worship of a "Trinity" traces all the way back to this original trio!

God is NOT a Trinity. God is a FAMILY (Ephesians 3:15), composed of the Father, and Jesus Christ, the first-born AMONG MANY BRETHREN (Romans 8:29). The Bible does not teach a "closed" God-head. Rather, true Christians can become Sons of God -- very members of the GOD FAMILY -- if they are BORN AGAIN by His Spirit at the resurrection.

At the resurrection, Christians begotten by the Holy Spirit, are born into God's ruling Kingdom. We will become co-inheritors with Jesus Christ (Romans 8:17)! We will be born of God as He is! We will be glorified just like Jesus Christ -- we will be LIKE HIM, "for we shall see Him as He is" (I John 3:2) -- as VERY GOD!

Satan has deluded the world with his diabolical trinitarian concept in order to HIDE the marvelous truth about MAN'S DESTINY!

Side note:

In order of time sequence the earliest prehistoric revelation is in the New Testament, in John 1:1-3: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

The Word was one Personage. God was another Personage. Yet the Word was a Personage separate from God-as shown in verse 14: "And the Word was [much later] made flesh, and dwelt among us.... " The Word became Jesus Christ.

The English "Word" is translated from the original Greek Logos, meaning "Word" or "Spokesman." That all things were made by Him is confirmed in Ephesians 3:9, where it speaks of God "who created all things by Jesus Christ." "He spake, and it was done" (Ps. 33:9).

Here are TWO Personages, yet both are GOD. How is that? A man named David Smith may have a son named Paul. But Paul, though a separate individual, is also a Smith. However, Jesus Christ did not become the Son of God until about 4 B.C., when born in human flesh of the virgin Mary. Prior to that, He had ALWAYS existed, even as had God. Christ was originally "without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life" (Heb. 7:3).

Now come to Genesis 1:1: "In the beginning God...." This was written originally by Moses in the Hebrew language. The English "God" is translated from the Hebrew Elohim-a uniplural noun. It is uniplural in the same sense as the words "family" and "church"-denoting more than one component forming the whole. Not two Gods-but ONE God consisting of more than one Person.

When, only nineteen hundred-plus years ago, Jesus was begotten of God in the womb of His human mother Mary, He was the only human ever so begotten prior to human birth! Yet, as we shall see later, humans may become begotten children of God-after human birth, but preceding a spiritual birth.

Throughout the first chapter of Genesis, the Hebrew name of God is always the Hebrew Elohim, which denotes both the Word and God.

But in chapter 2, Moses began adding another name for God-Yahweh in the Hebrew, usually combined with Elohim: Yahweh-Elohim. In the King James English translation, it is rendered "LORD God," which is somewhat misleading.

It is interesting, at this point, to explain this name Yahweh. There is no one word in the English language which adequately translates it. It means "the self-existent, eternal-living, creative one." The Moffatt translation renders it "the Eternal." The Fenton translation uses "the Ever-Living." Personally, I prefer to use only the one word "Eternal," instead of "Lord."

In any event, the English "LORD" in the King James translation refers to that Person in the Godhead who in John 1:1 is called "the Word"-the very one who later became Jesus Christ.

Where is the Holy Spirit in this family, it isn't, It's a gift from God, Its just spirit that works with our spirit? There are 2 in the God family, God the Father, and his son Jesus Christ (God also)

Jere
 

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Holy, Holy, Holy

1. Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty!
Early in the morning our song shall rise to Thee;
Holy, holy, holy! Merciful and mighty!
God in three persons, blessed Trinity!

2. Holy, holy, holy! All the saints adore Thee,
Casting down their golden crowns around the glassy sea;
Cherubim and seraphim falling down before Thee,
Which wert and art and evermore shalt be.

3. Holy, holy, holy! Thou the darkness hide Thee,
Though the eye of sinful man Thy glory may not see;
Only Thou art holy - there is none beside Thee
Perfect in pow'r, in love and purity.

4. Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty!
All Thy works shall praise Thy name in earth and sky and sea;
Holy, holy, holy! Merciful and mighty!
God in three persons, blessed Trinity!
 
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edpobre

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Originally posted by JereReagan

Where did I John 5:7 come from? Why is it found today in the King James Bible? And who put it there?

The editors of the "Critical and Experimental Commentary" were forced to admit this verse is NOT found in ANY of the old manuscripts of the Bible and was not found in the manuscripts of the Latin Vulgate until as late as the eighth century! Notice their confession:

"The only Greek MSS., IN ANY FORM, which support the words, "in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one: and there are three that bear witness in earth," are the Montfortianus of Dublin, copied from the MODERN Latin Vulgate; the Revianus, copied from the Complutensian Polyglot; a MS. at Naples, with the words added IN THE MARGIN BY A RECENT HAND; Ottobonianus, 298, of the FIFTEENTH CENTURY, the Greek of which is a TRANSLATION of the accompanying Latin. ALL THE OLD VERSIONS OMIT THE WORDS. The OLDEST MSS. of the Vulgate OMIT THEM, the earliest Vulgate MS. which has them being Wizanburgensis, 99, of the EIGHTH CENTURY.

Even Adam Clarke confesses in his "Commentary": "But it is likely this verse is NOT GENUINE. It is wanting in every MS. of this epistle written BEFORE the invention of printing, one excepted, the "Codex Montfortii", in Trinity College, Dublin

Clarke continues, "It is wanting in both the Syriac, all the Arabic, Ethiopic, the Coptic, Sahidic, Armenian, Slavonian, etc., in a word, IN ALL THE ANCIENT VERSIONS but the "Vulgate"; and even of this version many of the most ancient and correct MSS. have it not. It is wanting also in ALL THE ANCIENT GREEK FATHERS; and in most even of the Latin."

How, then, did it creep into the text of the King James Version? Hear the voice of History:

I John 5:7 "... is not contained in any Greek manuscript which was written earlier than the fifth century. It is not cited by ANY of the Greek ecclesiastical writers; nor by any of the early Latin fathers, even when the subjects upon which they treated would naturally have led them to appeal to its authority. IT IS THEREFORE evidently SPURIOUS; and was first cited (though not as it now reads) by Virgilius Tapsensis, a Latin writer of no credit, in the latter end of the fifth century, but by whom FORGED, is of no great moment, as its design must be obvious to all." (The Emphatic Diaglott.)

Trinitarians grasp at I John 5:7 as a last straw to support their doctrine because NO OTHER SCRIPTURE IN ALL THE BIBLE CAN LEND CREDENCE to the pagan doctrine of a tri-une God!

The doctrine of "God in three Persons" is not Biblical! It originated in ancient paganism!

Babylonish and Oriental religions have LONG believed in triune divinities -- father, mother and child. The Egyptians worshiped Isis, Osiris, and Horus; the Babylonians deified the archrebel Nimrod, his wife Semiramis, and her illegitimate son Horus, known also as Gilgamesh. The widespread worship of a "Trinity" traces all the way back to this original trio!

AMEN!

God is NOT a Trinity. God is a FAMILY (Ephesians 3:15), composed of the Father, and Jesus Christ, the first-born AMONG MANY BRETHREN (Romans 8:29). The Bible does not teach a "closed" God-head. Rather, true Christians can become Sons of God -- very members of the GOD FAMILY -- if they are BORN AGAIN by His Spirit at the resurrection.

At the resurrection, Christians begotten by the Holy Spirit, are born into God's ruling Kingdom. We will become co-inheritors with Jesus Christ (Romans 8:17)! We will be born of God as He is! We will be glorified just like Jesus Christ -- we will be LIKE HIM, "for we shall see Him as He is" (I John 3:2) -- as VERY GOD!

This is where I am perplexed. Are you saying we can be like Jesus -- as VERY God? 

Satan has deluded the world with his diabolical trinitarian concept in order to HIDE the marvelous truth about MAN'S DESTINY!

Can you spell out in CLEAR words what you believe is MAN'S DESTINY? 

Side note:

In order of time sequence the earliest prehistoric revelation is in the New Testament, in John 1:1-3: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

The Word was one Personage. God was another Personage. Yet the Word was a Personage separate from God-as shown in verse 14: "And the Word was [much later] made flesh, and dwelt among us.... " The Word became Jesus Christ.

The English "Word" is translated from the original Greek Logos, meaning "Word" or "Spokesman." That all things were made by Him is confirmed in Ephesians 3:9, where it speaks of God "who created all things by Jesus Christ." "He spake, and it was done" (Ps. 33:9).

Here are TWO Personages, yet both are GOD. How is that? A man named David Smith may have a son named Paul. But Paul, though a separate individual, is also a Smith. However, Jesus Christ did not become the Son of God until about 4 B.C., when born in human flesh of the virgin Mary. Prior to that, He had ALWAYS existed, even as had God. Christ was originally "without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life" (Heb. 7:3).

Now come to Genesis 1:1: "In the beginning God...." This was written originally by Moses in the Hebrew language. The English "God" is translated from the Hebrew Elohim-a uniplural noun. It is uniplural in the same sense as the words "family" and "church"-denoting more than one component forming the whole. Not two Gods-but ONE God consisting of more than one Person.

When, only nineteen hundred-plus years ago, Jesus was begotten of God in the womb of His human mother Mary, He was the only human ever so begotten prior to human birth! Yet, as we shall see later, humans may become begotten children of God-after human birth, but preceding a spiritual birth.

Throughout the first chapter of Genesis, the Hebrew name of God is always the Hebrew Elohim, which denotes both the Word and God.

But in chapter 2, Moses began adding another name for God-Yahweh in the Hebrew, usually combined with Elohim: Yahweh-Elohim. In the King James English translation, it is rendered "LORD God," which is somewhat misleading.

It is interesting, at this point, to explain this name Yahweh. There is no one word in the English language which adequately translates it. It means "the self-existent, eternal-living, creative one." The Moffatt translation renders it "the Eternal." The Fenton translation uses "the Ever-Living." Personally, I prefer to use only the one word "Eternal," instead of "Lord."

In any event, the English "LORD" in the King James translation refers to that Person in the Godhead who in John 1:1 is called "the Word"-the very one who later became Jesus Christ.

Where is the Holy Spirit in this family, it isn't, It's a gift from God, Its just spirit that works with our spirit? There are 2 in the God family, God the Father, and his son Jesus Christ (God also)

Jere

If Jesus is ALSO God:

How do you explain Isaiah 44:8; Isaiah 45:5-6; Isaiah 46:9; Malachi 2:10 where God the Father SAYS there is NO God beside Him?

And how about what John 8:40 where Jesus SAID he is a MAN and John 17:3 where Jesus IDENTIFIED the FATHER as the ONLY true God?

Ed
 
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Stormy

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Yet another trinity debate?? :D

OK so tell me what difference you think it makes one way or the other?

One side says Jesus is God.

The other side says he is the son of God.

I do not see the problem.

It will all get sorted out when we meet them.

But this new idea seems more frightening. Now we have Jesus being an ordinary man who has some how become a god. If we are good enough we will also become gods?

Do you really believe this?

I think now we may have a problem!! :eek:
 
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Havoc

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Originally posted by gunnysgt
Holy, Holy, Holy

1. Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty!
Early in the morning our song shall rise to Thee;
Holy, holy, holy! Merciful and mighty!
God in three persons, blessed Trinity!

2. Holy, holy, holy! All the saints adore Thee,
Casting down their golden crowns around the glassy sea;
Cherubim and seraphim falling down before Thee,
Which wert and art and evermore shalt be.

3. Holy, holy, holy! Thou the darkness hide Thee,
Though the eye of sinful man Thy glory may not see;
Only Thou art holy - there is none beside Thee
Perfect in pow'r, in love and purity.

4. Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty!
All Thy works shall praise Thy name in earth and sky and sea;
Holy, holy, holy! Merciful and mighty!
God in three persons, blessed Trinity!

Words from a popular hymn. Well that's enough proof for me, I'm convinced.
 
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JereReagan

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edpobre,

The WORD WAS GOD, and the WORD WAS WITH GOD, and the WORD WAS BORN INTO FLESH (Later in John 1)

Grasp this?

We cannot, what we do know is that God has to be a sir name, cause God will not contradict himself, he means exsactly what he says...

Heb 1:8
"But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.
(God telling his son, God)

They are sir names.. God the Father, God Jesus Christ.. and we will also be sons of God... God Reagan, all God's but the God most high will be the Father and Son.. The same way you are no better then your father, he is still your dad regardless.. The same relationship is treated here.. Like Father Like Son.. If you have seen the Son, You have seen the father as Christ quoted.

notice that God (Elohim) is more than one Person, even though only ONE GOD.

In Genesis 1:26, Elohim said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness...." Notice! Not "Let me" but "Let us"-plural, or uniplural.

Then, in Genesis 2:2-3, "On the seventh day God (Elohim) ended his work which he had made. . . . And God [Elohim] blessed the seventh day...."

Then, verse 4: "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God (Yahweh Elohim) made the earth and the heavens." Again it was through the Word, in the Hebrew named Yahweh, that the earth and heavens were made-as GOD created all things by Jesus Christ (Eph. 3:9).

Hope this helps

Good day friend,
Jere
 
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Originally posted by Stormy
Yet another trinity debate?? :D

OK so tell me what difference you think it makes one way or the other?

One side says Jesus is God.

The other side says he is the son of God.

I do not see the problem.

It will all get sorted out when we meet them.

But this new idea seems more frightening. Now we have Jesus being an ordinary man who has some how become a god. If we are good enough we will also become gods?

Do you really believe this?

I think now we may have a problem!! :eek:

I would think it would be very important NOW to all Christians who profess belief in the Trinity. Doesn't it matter to you if the religion you believe in is true or not? You say that it will all get sorted out when you meet "them". Who is them? If one of them is Jesus, what if it turns out that Muslims were right about Jesus, and since you believed incorrectly, it's eternal torment for you. So, maybe it's worth looking into whether or not the doctrine of the Trinity is true, along with several other Christian doctrines. At least for those who care about such matters.
 
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Zico

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Originally posted by agnostic front
I would think it would be very important NOW to all Christians who profess belief in the Trinity. Doesn't it matter to you if the religion you believe in is true or not? You say that it will all get sorted out when you meet "them". Who is them? If one of them is Jesus, what if it turns out that Muslims were right about Jesus, and since you believed incorrectly, it's eternal torment for you. So, maybe it's worth looking into whether or not the doctrine of the Trinity is true, along with several other Christian doctrines. At least for those who care about such matters.

 

Amen to what you said agnostic front.

This is once more a reminder for people who can understand.

         

         In the name of God, the Beneficent, the Merciful

 

19.16 And make mention of Mary in the Scripture, when she had withdrawn from her people to a chamber looking East,


19.17 And had chosen seclusion from them. Then We sent unto her Our Spirit and it assumed for her the likeness of a perfect man.
19.18 She said: Lo! I seek refuge in the Beneficent One from thee, if thou art God- fearing.


19.19 He said: I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a faultless son.


19.20 She said: How can I have a son when no mortal hath touched me, neither have I been unchaste ?


19.21 He said: So (it will be). Thy Lord saith: It is easy for Me. And (it will be) that We may make of him a revelation for mankind and a mercy from Us, and it is a thing ordained.


19.22 And she conceived him, and she withdrew with him to a far place.


19.23 And the pangs of childbirth drove her unto the trunk of the palm-tree. She said: Oh, would that I had died ere this and had become a thing of naught, forgotten!


19.24 Then (one) cried unto her from below her, saying: Grieve not! Thy Lord hath placed a rivulet beneath thee,


19.25 And shake the trunk of the palm-tree toward thee, thou wilt cause ripe dates to fall upon thee.


19.26 So eat and drink and be consoled. And if thou meetest any mortal, say: Lo! I have vowed a fast unto the Beneficent, and may not speak this day to any mortal.


19.27 Then she brought him to her own folk, carrying him. They said: O Mary! Thou hast come with an amazing thing.


19.28 O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a wicked man nor was thy mother a harlot.


19.29 Then she pointed to him. They said: How can we talk to one who is in the cradle, a young boy ?


19.30 He spake: Lo! I am the slave of Allah. He hath given me the Scripture and hath appointed me a Prophet,


19.31 And hath made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and hath enjoined upon me prayer and almsgiving so long as I remain alive,


19.32 And (hath made me) dutiful toward her who bore me, and hath not made me arrogant, unblest.


19.33 Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!


19.34 Such was Jesus, son of Mary: (this is) a statement of the truth concerning which they doubt.


19.35 It befitteth not (the Majesty of) Allah that He should take unto Himself a son. Glory be to Him! When He decreeth a thing, He saith unto it only: Be! and it is.


19.36 And lo! Allah is my Lord and your Lord. So serve Him. That is the right path.


19.37 The sects among them differ: but woe unto the disbelievers from the meeting of an awful Day.
 
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edpobre

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Originally posted by Stormy
Yet another trinity debate?? :D

OK so tell me what difference you think it makes one way or the other?

One side says Jesus is God.

The other side says he is the son of God.

I do not see the problem.

It will all get sorted out when we meet them.



The problem is: BOTH sides CANNOT be correct.  And God will PUNISH those who do NOT knolw God and who do NOT obey the gospel of Christ. "In flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do NOT know God and on those who do NOT obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be PUNISHED with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his power" (2 Thess. 1:8-9).

Jesus TAUGHT that he is a MAN (John 8:40) and the FATHER is the ONLY true God" (John 17:3,1). Apostle John wrote that anyone who does NOT abide in the doctrine of Christ (these are doctrines of Christ) does NOT have God (2 John 1:9).

But this new idea seems more frightening. Now we have Jesus being an ordinary man who has some how become a god. If we are good enough we will also become gods?

Do you really believe this?

Nah! This is a FALSE doctrine. It does NOT come from God. It has NO biblical leg to stand on. 

I think now we may have a problem!!

Not me!.The Mormons do! This is what they believe in.

Ed
 
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edpobre

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Originally posted by JereReagan

edpobre,

The WORD WAS GOD, and the WORD WAS WITH GOD, and the WORD WAS BORN INTO FLESH (Later in John 1)

Where does it say in here that Jesus is the WORD that WAS God and BECAME a MAN? It's ONLY in youyr IMAGINATION!

Grasp this?

We cannot, what we do know is that God has to be a sir name, cause God will not contradict himself, he means exsactly what he says...

Heb 1:8
"But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.
(God telling his son, God)

They are sir names.. God the Father, God Jesus Christ.. and we will also be sons of God... God Reagan, all God's but the God most high will be the Father and Son.. The same way you are no better then your father, he is still your dad regardless.. The same relationship is treated here.. Like Father Like Son.. If you have seen the Son, You have seen the father as Christ quoted.

Whoever taught you that "God" is a surname is a FALSE teacher. FYI JereReagan,  GOD is the single English word that describes the CREATOR of all things and MAN is the single English word that describes God's CREATION on the sixth day.

There is ONLY ONE God (Isaiah 44:8; Isaiah 45:5-6; Isaiah 46:9) and that ONLY ONE God is the FATHER (Isaiah 53:16; Isaiah 64:8; Malachi 2:10; John 17:3; 1 Cor. 8:6).

Jesus SAID he is a MAN (John 8:40). God CREATED man (Gen. 1:27). Therefore Jesus is a CREATED being and will NEVER be God because he will NEVER be "THE" CREATOR.

notice that God (Elohim) is more than one Person, even though only ONE GOD.

In Genesis 1:26, Elohim said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness...." Notice! Not "Let me" but "Let us"-plural, or uniplural.

There is NO record of God talking to Jesus in this verse or elsewhere. But if you go to Gen. 3:24, you willl read that God PLACED "living creatures" or "cherubims" at the east gate of the garden. Thus, it can be safely assumed that God was talking to these "living creatures" or "cherubims." 

The Bible teaches that God alone (singular) CREATED man (Gen. 1:27).

Then, in Genesis 2:2-3, "On the seventh day God (Elohim) ended his work which he had made. . . . And God [Elohim] blessed the seventh day...."

God CANNOT be plural and singular at the SAME time. Note what the verse says: "God ended HIS work which HE made..."  If God were PLURAL the verse would have been written as: "God ended THEIR work which THEY made..."

Then, verse 4: "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God (Yahweh Elohim) made the earth and the heavens." Again it was through the Word, in the Hebrew named Yahweh, that the earth and heavens were made-as GOD created all things by Jesus Christ (Eph. 3:9).

Note how the word "God" is used here. It is used as the TITLE of the CREATOR NOT a surname.

Also, other versions of Eph. 3:9 are rendered as "GOD created all things THROUGH Jesus Christ."

 Ed
 
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edpobre

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Originally posted by LouisBooth
how many times do I have to go over this issue? Trinity does exsist. Its truth, its biblical.

If Jesus knew  that he was 100% man and 100% God IN ADDITION to the Father, WHY did he say to the FATHER: "....that they may know YOU, the ONLY true God?"

Please be TRUTHFUL in your answer Louis.

Ed

 
 
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Stormy

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The problem is: BOTH sides CANNOT be correct. And God will PUNISH those who do NOT knolw God and who do NOT obey the gospel of Christ. "In flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do NOT know God and on those who do NOT obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be PUNISHED with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his power" (2 Thess. 1:8-9).

Sorry, but if this was not because of your lack of understanding ... I would say it was a lie.

God has not promised to destroy in everlasting fire anyone, but the evil.

Know God... Know that you are to love him and love your fellow man! Place that love within your soul and use it as a witness to your creator... everyday of your life.

Jesus will then recognize you as his disciple and you will be saved.

Those who know LOVE.... know God.

Man has made many a religion with much to-do about nothing... All the while missing the point of life on Earth. We must learn how to truly LOVE before our time has past.

May God Bless us all. :)
 
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edpobre

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Originally posted by Stormy
The problem is: BOTH sides CANNOT be correct. And God will PUNISH those who do NOT knolw God and who do NOT obey the gospel of Christ. "In flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do NOT know God and on those who do NOT obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be PUNISHED with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his power" (2 Thess. 1:8-9).

Sorry, but if this was not because of your lack of understanding ... I would say it was a lie.

God has not promised to destroy in everlasting fire anyone, but the evil.

Who are you addressing as "lacking of understanding" or LYING Stormy, Apostle Paul or ME? Are you telling us that 2 Thess. 1:8-9 is FALSE? 

From whom did you learn that "God has not promised to destroy in everlasting fire anyone, but the evil?"

Know God... Know that you are to love him and love your fellow man! Place that love within your soul and use it as a witness to your creator... everyday of your life.

Jesus will then recognize you as his disciple and you will be saved.

Those who know LOVE.... know God.

Man has made many a religion with much to-do about nothing... All the while missing the point of life on Earth. We must learn how to truly LOVE before our time has past.

Nice words Stormy. But from whom did you learn what you are saying? What has LOVE to do about KNOWING God? How does LOVE make Jesus recognize one as his disciple? How does LOVE save anyone?  How is true LOVE measured Stormy?

Ed
 
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edpobre

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Originally posted by LouisBooth
how many times do I have to go over this issue? Trinity does exsist. Its truth, its biblical.

You can say a million times that the Trinity is true, biblical and exists. But you CAN'T show from the Bible that this is TRUE. If Jesus were God, WHY did he identify the FATHER as the ONLY true God? Why did he say he is a MAN? Please answer me HONESTLY LouisBooth.

God says He is NOT a MAN that He should LIE (Num. 23:19). Therefore, the moment God BECOMES a MAN, He BECOMES a LIAR.

Ed
 
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TwinCrier

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Well, if Jesus was a man and lied about being 'one with the Father,' then He sinned and couldn't have died for OUR sins.  He accepted worship which would make him a liar.  I'm so glad that isn't the case.  Jesus is God in the flesh.  http://jesus-is-lord.com/trinity.htm
 
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Messenger

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Ed asked Stormy about love Here are some scriptures:

John 5:39
You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life. I do not accept praise from men, but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts. I have come in my Father's name, and you do not accept me: but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him. How can you believe if you accept praise from one another, yet meake no effort to obtain the praise that comes from the only God?

John 13:34 " A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another By this all men will know that you are my diciples, if you love one another."

John 15:17 This is my command: Love each other.

A verse I found that I believe is all too true of many Churches and doctrines:

Mark 7:6
Isaiah was right when he prophesied aout you hypocrites; as it is written:
"These people honor me with their lips but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain their teachings are but rules taught by men." You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men."

Of all things LOVE is most important.
Love and God Bless.
 
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