Trinity and Modalism

[HisHomeMaker]

Did God come to earth as the human Jesus or was Jesus fully separate from God, the sinless son? Is there equality or deference within the trinity? I'm a bit confused.

 

[MKJ]

Well, we would not say that Jesus was fully separate from God. We might say that God came to Earth as Jesus.

Probably the best way to put it would be "The Word became Flesh and dwelt among us", keeping in mind "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God".

 

[Peacedove]

Difficult for us to understand, probably impossible for us to understand as humans but the truth is that Jesus was both fully human and fully God when He was on earth. He had to be in order to do the job He came to do.

 

[HisHomeMaker]

Why do you think that some fight so heavily against modalism, that God came in three different modes (Father, Son, Holy Spirit)? Does it change who we are as Christians? Does it matter that we understand the difference between modalism and trinity?

 

[MKJ]

Why do you think that some fight so heavily against modalism, that God came in three different modes (Father, Son, Holy Spirit)? Does it change who we are as Christians? Does it matter that we understand the difference between modalism and trinity?

Modalism is a denial of the Trinity, and our understanding of the Trinity affects how we understand Christology. And that is what Christianity is about.

 

[RefCath]

Did God come to earth as the human Jesus or was Jesus fully separate from God, the sinless son? Is there equality or deference within the trinity? I'm a bit confused.

The Second Person of the Godhead took on flesh and became man. There is equality in the Godhead and yet there is order; the Father unbegotten, the Son begotten, and the Spirit proceeding. Let me commend to you The Holy Trinity: In Scripture, History, Theology and Worship by Robert Letham. You will find it immensely helpful.

 

[HisHomeMaker]

MKJ, are you saying we cannot be truly Christian until we understand The Trinity? Every time I think I have it figured out, I hear or read something that suggests I don't understand it. I'm left to question if it matters that I really "get it".

 

[MKJ]

MKJ, are you saying we cannot be truly Christian until we understand The Trinity? Every time I think I have it figured out, I hear or read something that suggests I don't understand it. I'm left to question if it matters that I really "get it".

No, I'm saying that modalism is an incorrect understanding of the Trinity and so should be avoided.

Saying that we know it is wrong does not lead to the conclusion that we do, or must, understand the Trinity perfectly. I don't perfectly understand how my car works, but I know that if I'm out of oil, or missing a wheel, or making a grating sound when I break, that something is wrong.

God is ultimately above human understanding. So why has theology developed at all? It usually happens in response to what is recognized as heresy. Someone begins to affirm or teach a doctrine that is incorrect, and so we develop or refine the way we teach to make it clear why that is a mistake.

There are quite a few tools to help us understand the Trinity as best we are able. The Creed, Scripture, the Ecumenical and other councils, and the writings of the Fathers. We use these to help us avoid errors. Modalism has been identified as an error from early on, so we can't act as if we don't know that. We can investigate it, but not say it doesn't matter.

 

[HisHomeMaker]

*Like* Thank you, MKJ!

 

[JustAnglican]

Difficult for us to understand, probably impossible for us to understand as humans but the truth is that Jesus was both fully human and fully God when He was on earth. He had to be in order to do the job He came to do.

Someon commented in another pentecostal forum that Jesus got rid of his human form when he ascended into heaven. My understanding is that Jesus took his human form as well into heaven. What is the Anglican teaching on this.

 

[MKJ]

Someon commented in another pentecostal forum that Jesus got rid of his human form when he ascended into heaven. My understanding is that Jesus took his human form as well into heaven. What is the Anglican teaching on this.

He took his body with him. The idea you heard is a classic heresy.

 

[mark46]

The resurrection of the body is an important Christian doctrine.

Someon commented in another pentecostal forum that Jesus got rid of his human form when he ascended into heaven. My understanding is that Jesus took his human form as well into heaven. What is the Anglican teaching on this.

 

[mark46]

I would respond to the beginning of your post.

Personally, I think that we do not need to UNDERSTAND to be Christian, and that there is no "fully" and "not-so fully" Christians.

If we accept Jesus as Lord and Savior and believe that He rose from the dead, then we are fully Christians.

I liked the statement form one of Bishop Wright's sermons,

The way I look at it,’ he said, ‘is this: if God raised Jesus Christ from the dead, all the rest is basically rock’n’roll.’

MKJ, are you saying we cannot be truly Christian until we understand

 

[cajunhillbilly]

Jesus rose bodily into heaven and will return bodily from heaven. To teach anything else is pure heresy and a denial of the Gospel. Period.

 

[Adam Warlock]

MKJ is on fire in this thread. Fantastic posts!

 

[MKJ]

MKJ is on fire in this thread. Fantastic posts!

Aw, thanks.

 

[JustAnglican]

I would respond to the beginning of your post.

Personally, I think that we do not need to UNDERSTAND to be Christian, and that there is no "fully" and "not-so fully" Christians.

If we accept Jesus as Lord and Savior and believe that He rose from the dead, then we are fully Christians.

I liked the statement form one of Bishop Wright's sermons,

The way I look at it,’ he said, ‘is this: if God raised Jesus Christ from the dead, all the rest is basically rock’n’roll.’

MKJ, are you saying we cannot be truly Christian until we understand

We don't need to understand everything Christian, but we must believe it anyway.