Tribes

[violetchick]

I thought a break from Smack Downs and catching gayness might be in order so here goes!

I've recently finished watching a BBC series called Tribe, where the presenter goes to stay with a small tribe for a month and tries to live exactly as they do. And it's raised some interesting points.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/tribe/index.shtml


Some of the customs shown in the series seem horrific to me - such as female genital mutilation, ritual whipping and in one tribe, the Suri, the insertion of a clay plate into the lower lip of the females.
Yet when the presenter talked to the tribesfolk about these rituals which are so unacceptable in our culture, the women spoke of their pride in having these things done to them - scarring from whipping is seen as a status symbol, the bigger the lip plate, the better bride etc. There was very much a sense of the rituals being a bonding act and a way to keep the tribe's identity cohesive. There seemed to be no coercion. In fact, in the whipping ritual the women actually bait the men to hit them harder.


On the one hand we see how the West has affected their lifestyle - some tribes have seen their land decimated by the arrival of logging companies, another tribe in S. America lost most of its shamen to Western disease when they were first discovered in the 1970s. In Africa rival tribes now use guns instead of traditional bows and arrows - resulting in more deaths.

On the other hand, many of the children get an education now, more have access to better drinking water and many tribes now use modern technology.

Is it our moral duty to force these people to accept our values and educate them in our way of life or should we allow them to keep with their traditions, regardless of how barbaric they may seem to us?
Some of the tribes want to embrace Western culture, others want to carry on with their own traditions. Should they be allowed to choose?

 

[BlackBerry]

Why would it be moral to force anyone to do anything?

 

[Westvleteren]

I have to say that's a question I wrestle with. Are these practices wrong if they don't appear to cause harm, or are even embraced? It's a issue of relative vs. absolute, and I don't yet have an answer.

But - to use one of your examples -- a woman who decides she no longer wishes to practice genital mutilation should to be able say so and have her wishes respected without fear of reprisal from more traditional members of her tribe.

And that's all I've got. I look forward to reading other responses as this question interests me.

 

[ArchaicTruth]

All we are obligated to do is give them medical aid, education, and dimplomatic solutions working towards peace.

 

[Vene]

Is it our moral duty to force these people to accept our values and educate them in our way of life or should we allow them to keep with their traditions, regardless of how barbaric they may seem to us?
Some of the tribes want to embrace Western culture, others want to carry on with their own traditions. Should they be allowed to choose?

In a word, no. Before labeling a group of people as barbaric it's a good idea to look at your own culture. We have people who pay others to stab them in their ears just to fill the hole with a piece of shiny metal (and possibly a rock as well). And it's not just limited to the ears; noses, tongues, navels, eyebrows, lips, and even genitalia are possible sites for this horrific act. The worst part, the people are proud of this, they spend gobs on their money just so they can mutilate their own bodies. I just don't see what would possess somebody to stab hunks of metal through their flesh, let alone pay another to do it (don't get me started on how sick these people are).

Though as far as I'm concerned female genital mutilation is just wrong. Why? Because it leads to harm in the woman receiving it. It's the equivalent of chopping the glans penis off of a man.

 

[Mling]

In many cultures, including our own, scars are seen as status symbols. I see no reason to worry about that when it is so obviously consensual.

I don't see why we would have any right to criticize artificially enlarging lips or ears by inserting things in them, when we artificially enlarge breasts, calves, pecs and and many other body parts. We insert things, some of them poisonous; inject diseases into our muscles to paralyze them. It is normal and civilized, because "we" do it. Barbaric when "they" do it.

Now, the genital mutilation causes definite harm, so that's another story. But I wouldn't get worked up about the others.

 

[TeddyKGB]

Do they see those things as symbols of pride inherently or because there is massive social pressure to do so?

In my old school, going to jail was a source of pride to a certain ingroup. Does the logic in the OP demand that we classify that as mere cultural relativity as well?

 

[Mling]

Does going to jail cause real harm? I'd say so. I'd also say that scars don't. That's the difference.

 

[TeddyKGB]

Does going to jail cause real harm? I'd say so. I'd also say that scars don't. That's the difference.

Maybe. But you're dreaming if you think all culturally unique activities will fall neatly into "causes harm" and "does not cause harm" categories.

 

[Mling]

Maybe. But you're dreaming if you think all culturally unique activities will fall neatly into "causes harm" and "does not cause harm" categories.

I don't, but so far we are dealing with pretty obvious issues. Skin-deep cuts heal and the scars are harmless. Going to jail is harmful in just about every way imaginable.

 

[violetchick]

The point I was trying to make (badly!) is that missionaries and governments are trying to alter many African tribes ways of life because they seem unacceptable to countries that are trying to be perceived as 'modern' and industrialised. Do the governments have the right to force laws onto these tribes or should more be done to give them their own homelands? Or is it too late?

For me the situation is very problematic. On the one hand, I strongly believe everyone has the right to an decent education. But should children living in remote areas in a hunter/gatherer society have to go to school? Is it something we should impose on them, is it our moral duty to help them become more educated and 'better' themselves?

In Brazil, there is a protected part of the rainforest where most of the small tribes living there have limited interaction with the West (for want of a better word) in order to protect their way of life. But already, children from one tribe live in the city in the week whilst they go to school. Can they balance living with two radically different cultures, or will the West win out? And does it even matter? Is it important to preserve these small tribes or should they simply be assimilated into Brazil?

 

[Caitlin.ann]

The point I was trying to make (badly!) is that missionaries and governments are trying to alter many African tribes ways of life because they seem unacceptable to countries that are trying to be perceived as 'modern' and industrialised. Do the governments have the right to force laws onto these tribes or should more be done to give them their own homelands? Or is it too late?

For me the situation is very problematic. On the one hand, I strongly believe everyone has the right to an decent education. But should children living in remote areas in a hunter/gatherer society have to go to school? Is it something we should impose on them, is it our moral duty to help them become more educated and 'better' themselves?

In Brazil, there is a protected part of the rainforest where most of the small tribes living there have limited interaction with the West (for want of a better word) in order to protect their way of life. But already, children from one tribe live in the city in the week whilst they go to school. Can they balance living with two radically different cultures, or will the West win out? And does it even matter? Is it important to preserve these small tribes or should they simply be assimilated into Brazil?

We have no right for force anything on anyone. We don't have any moral obligations. Personally I find some of these remote tribes quite interesting because it lets us gain a better understanding of our own hunter/gatherer past. Let them be as they are.