Tree Rings a Problem for 6,000 Year Old Earth

Anyone, excepting no one, who puts the arguments of "science" above scripture, is denying BASIC Christian doctrine.

But this means the explicit statements of scripture, not conclusions based upon them.

KomatiiteBIF said:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fgpSrUWQplE&ved=2ahUKEwi3uJClyYDdAhVRq1kKHfyaBq0QjjgwAHoECAUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0VW6f7RWvDXK63nRJTUoRa

Seashells on mountains is a product of plate tectonics.

What's more important is to understand that marine fossils are in marine strata while terrestrial are in terrestrial strata.

And regarding stalactites, nobody suggests that caves are the same age as the earth.

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I am not really here to get into a debate on this kind of topic in regards to the Science alone because I am not a Scientist. I am a Christian who knows my Bible. So my defense will be with the Bible primarily. In fact, I believe this is a spiritual issue that is serious and not so much a scientific issue. Granted, Science does support a Young Earth, but the real reason why folks believe in an Old Earth (IMO) is because they are trying to fit in with the world's way of thinking (i.e. Secular Science). They start off with Science as their foundation first and then they try to make that fit into the Bible. Why? Because they want to fit in with the world. For who wants to be persecuted? Yet, Scripture says that all live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution (See 2 Timothy 3:12).

joshua 1 9 said:

It is absurd for anyone in this day and age to suggest that the earth is only 6,000 years old. If we go to the beach we see little particles of sand. In northern California the sand there is very colorful. At first the earth was very hot and mostly rocks were in a liquid state. Then when the earth cooled the rocks were broken up over time and became the sand we see today. We have a lot of conglomerate rock and we have river bed rock that also was formed over a long period of time. Some rocks like lime and chalk are organic. They are actually made up of the skeletons (calcium carbonate) of tiny little animals in the ocean. Just like coal is an organic material that formed over long periods of time. They like to talk about how the oil deposits were organic. The energy from the sun was converted and stored. Under the great lakes are many thick layers of salt that they mine to put on the roads. This was layer upon layer from when the ocean covered this part of the country. Now the great lakes are fresh water and they are higher than the ocean.

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You were not there to observe it. Did you exist for millions of years to test the Science yourself? No. You are only basing your scientific findings based upon what you have been conditioned all your life as a child to accept from secular Scientists. You did not come to this conclusion by reading the Word of God. Granted, I am not saying that Scientists cannot teach good Science. But this would be Observable Science like the teaching of how our Earth is round and not flat. People observed this. But people did not observe the Earth being millions of years old. That would be Historical Science. Therein lies the difference, my friend.

You said:

The great oxygen event is very interesting also. We have life that is producing oxygen and this is causing the iron in the earth to rust or oxidize . This is how we get the brilliant red colors that we see in geology. Also we know that blood is red from the oxygen. If there is no oxygen then the blood is blue. Again this is a process that takes a very long time. Much longer then 6,000 years.

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Again, you were not around to truly know what happened.

You said:

God is truth, not fiction. When He writes a story in the layers we can read what He has written. We can study the layers and we can see what God wants us to see and we can learn how He created this world that we live in today. He gives us wisdom, knowledge and understanding and He gives us a world that we are able to understand. Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

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But we have fossilized trees going through rock layers.



We also have one fossil even giving birth in these rock layers.

I am a scientist, and have written extensively on the SCIENTIFIC reasons for rejection the theory of evolution. But my MAIN reason for rejecting it is that is contradicts the explicitly stated accounts of Genesis.

Chinchilla said:

It is not perfect , for example it has missing one vers in psalm which has one vers for one letter in Hebrew in order as they go .
We know this because of dead sea scrolls

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There are many reasons that the KJV is divine in origin.

#1. God's Word claims that it is perfect (Psalms 12:6) (Psalms 119:140) (Proverbs 30:5) and that it will be preserved for all generations (Psalms 12:7) and it will stand forever (Isaiah 40:8) (1 Peter 1:25). So there must be a perfect Word of God for our day that we can understand in a modern day world language. Well, that is if you believe the Bible when it says that His Word will exist for all generations, and that it is perfect. Seeing God's Word was preserved within the Greek (Which was once a world language), it makes sense that God would do that again with the world language of today (Which is English). A person who understands this truth and accepts it will quickly come to discover that the KJV is that Bible in time (by examining the evidence).

#2. A side by side comparison of the KJV vs. Modern Translations shows that the KJV is superior in defending the Trinity, holiness, Christology, the atonement, etc. In fact, the devil places his name within Modern Translations in several places and it is actually really disturbing. The Modern Translations can be traced from the corrupted Westcott and Hort's Critical Text. They were not even true believers who were into the occult. The KJV is taken from the Textus Receptus line.

https://av1611.com/kjbp/charts/themagicmarker.html
https://av1611.com/kjbp/charts/themagicmarker2.html

#3. Biblical Numerics time and again proves the divine nature of the KJV. If you ever want the facts about the KJV, just watch a video by Mike Hoggard on a certain Bible number. The number 7, the number 8, the number 9, the number 66 are all some really good studies. For me, these kinds of studies show me that God's Word is no accident. But you can remain in the dark and take the blue pill and not check it out and just believe whatever you want to believe. I mean, I watched your video, and I disagreed with it. I think it is only fair you should check out a video that I have put forth. Check out the number 8 video by Mike Hoggard. This one totally blew my mind.


#4. The Most Attacked Bible.
The Bible that stands above the rest and is attacked the most is the KJV. For people break into banks because they have value within them. So men try to attack the KJV because it has value. Christians have even said I was a heretic for believing in the KJV and said that I worship the KJV. But nowhere do I bow down before the KJV as if it was a magical book. I simply believe it is a love letter from God (Who helps me to worship Him in spirit and in truth).

#5. God reveals amazing hidden truths to believers who trust in the KJV.
For where others see contradictions in the KJV, God reveals to those who trust in His Word the actual true meaning where there is no contradiction (With the Word of God breathing in perfect harmony). Many contradictions over the years that people have thrown at the KJV I have resolved with the help of the Lord and in searching the Scriptures. My discoveries blew my mind because I was patient and waited upon the Lord and believed in His Word by faith.

In fact, the KJV is why I am a believer in Jesus Christ. These kinds of things (you mention) are a joke and an attack upon God's Word. Psalms 145:17 says God is righteous in all his ways (Modern Translations say that God is gracious in all his acts). The rendering God is gracious in all his ways is not exactly true because sometimes God executes judgment and wrath.

Also, with the Dead Sea Scrolls, there are a few problems. Problem #1: How do you know which Hebrew manuscripts this heretical cult (called the Essenes) took with them when they left the temple of Jerusalem and went to the area of the Qumran caves? Problem #2: How do you know the methods they used and the accuracy with which they copied and recopied those manuscripts? It just so happens that the Dead Sea Scrolls, probably 99% of the time, did concur with the Hebrew text that underlies the King James Bible. But, in the places where they don't, we should stick to the Masoretic Traditional Hebrew text.

Source used for the last paragraph of my post:
http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/articles/super.html

Jason0047 said:

There are many reasons that the KJV is divine in origin.

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If it's missing one word it is not divine , it's also not divine because it was not pre-existing before creation of world .
It is good translation based on inspired Scriptures but it has errors .
Most of the errors are in OT because it's based on corrupted text of Jews who rejected Christ . I still use KJV over any other but it's good to know the truth rather than lying to myself .

Jason0047 said:

You were not there to observe it.

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I am observing it right now. I gave you plenty of photos for you to observe with your eyes so you can see with your own eyes how old the world we live in is. I am looking at what God gives us to look at - study & learn. I am taking advantage of the experience we have available to us as a part of this world. Do you remember the conversation God had with Job? Job 38:4 "“Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding." God wants us to know, why would He bring up the subject in His conversation with Job. Why is there so much discussion in the Bible about how God created "Heaven & Earth"? Should be just as important to study Science as we study the Bible so we know about the work of God's hands and how He created the world we live in. We were there in the beginning because from the very beginning God had a perfect plan for you and me and for our lives. It is more common for us to see the future than to look into the past. As we draw closer to God time becomes less of a factor because there is no time for God.

So I will say again YES we were there in the beginning with God. Because He had plans for us from the very beginning and He declares the end from the beginning. We were a part of the Heaven & the Earth that HE spoke into existence. He loved us and had plans for us and our life in and though Him. We have come a long way in understanding sense the day that God had that conversation with Job.

Maybe you should pay more attention to your own video, because I think he understand how God wants to perfect his work in us. Lots of people claim we can not be perfect because they do not understand how God wants to do a perfect work in us. Many times God has impressed upon me that His Justice is perfect. Science shows us how delicate of a balance this universe is. The size of the sun, the size of the earth the size of the moon. The distance the earth is from the sun and the distance the moon is from the earth. All of those are exactly tuned to life here on earth. Plus we read about how God created the atmosphere hear on earth, an atmosphere that is different from the atmosphere we had at the time of the dinosaurs. Back when the sky was pink instead of blue and there was alot more humidity in the air. I have a whole book here I have not even read yet called: "Out of thin air" that goes into a lot of detail about the history of oxygen level and how that effects the life here on Earth. Our God is an amazing God and He does amazing things here on planet earth. Even He has a plan of salvation. A plan that involves time. Time for us to decide if we want to be a part of His plan. We can decide if we want to be restored with the rest of creation.

Chinchilla said:

If it's missing one word it is not divine , it's also not divine because it was not pre-existing before creation of word .
It is good translation based on inspired Scriptures but it has errors .

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The Dead Sea Scrolls are not the perfect Word of God. They are a close copy to the Word of God but they are not without error like the KJV that was preserved today. The addition in the Dead Sea scrolls shows that it is corrupt. Again, God is not gracious in all his ways technically speaking because He also executes judgment. God had destroyed his enemies many times in the Old Testament. So God is not gracious in all ways because God also judges, and destroys, too. God is also a God of wrath and judgment, too. So the verse addition is a lie.

joshua 1 9 said:

I am observing it right now. I gave you plenty of photos for you to observe with your eyes so you can see with your own eyes how old the world we live in is. I am looking at what God gives us to look at - study & learn. I am taking advantage of the experience we have available to us as a part of this world. Do you remember the conversation God had with Job? Job 38:4 "“Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding." God wants us to know, why would He bring up the subject in His conversation with Job. Why is there so much discussion in the Bible about how God created "Heaven & Earth"? Should be just as important to study Science as we study the Bible so we know about the work of God's hands and how He created the world we live in. We were there in the beginning because from the very beginning God had a perfect plan for you and me and for our lives. It is more common for us to see the future than to look into the past. As we draw closer to God time becomes less of a factor because there is no time for God.

So I will say again YES we were there in the beginning with God. Because He had plans for us from the very beginning and He declares the end from the beginning. We were a part of the Heaven & the Earth that HE spoke into existence. He loved us and had plans for us and our life in and though Him. We have come a long way in understanding sense the day that God had that conversation with Job.

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Many times scientists can be wrong on their observations and findings.
But my foundation is God's Word first and not Science.
I have already told you WHY your belief was wrong according to God's Word in what it plainly says. Genesis 2:5 says there was not a man to till the ground. Then Genesis 2:7 says God formed man out of the dust of the ground. You may want to twist and change that with the Hebrew (a language you really did not grow up speaking and writing back in Biblical times), but the Word of God is clear in what it says within our world language of today. For God is not going to hold people accountable for knowing His Word in another language.

IMO ~ You would believe Genesis 2:5 in the English if it was a verse that was in favor of your belief, but seeing it does not support your belief, it has to be saying something totally different in the original language somehow. In other words, I believe you are being selective with God's Word so as to defend your Science and you are not making God's Word your basis for your belief first.

Chinchilla said:

If it's missing one word it is not divine , it's also not divine because it was not pre-existing before creation of word .
It is good translation based on inspired Scriptures but it has errors .
Most of the errors are in OT because it's based on corrupted text of Jews who rejected Christ . I still use KJV over any other but it's good to know the truth rather than lying to myself .

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Oh, and one more thing I would like to say, my friend. Please do not take offense. I just want to say that you either take the time to investigate what I say is true, or you can remain in the dark and believe whatever you want to believe. I think you owe it to yourself to at least check out some of what I am saying. For what will it harm you to check out the information I have provided?

Jason0047 said:

Oh, and one more thing I would like to say, my friend. Please do not take offense. I just want to say that you either take the time to investigate what I say is true, or you can remain in the dark and believe whatever you want to believe. I think you owe it to yourself to at least check out some of what I am saying. For what will it harm you to check out the information I have provided?

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Likewise you , can you refute the claim in this video ?
Hands like lion or pierced hands ? Young woman or virgin ?

Jason0047 said:

The Dead Sea Scrolls are not the perfect Word of God. They are a close copy to the Word of God but they are not without error like the KJV that was preserved today. The addition in the Dead Sea scrolls shows that it is corrupt. Again, God is not gracious in all his ways technically speaking because He also executes judgment. God had destroyed his enemies many times in the Old Testament. So God is not gracious in all ways because God also judges, and destroys, too. God is also a God of wrath and judgment, too. So the verse addition is a lie.

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How do you know they are corrupt ? Because of them we have evidence of there being NT alredy at 50 or so AD . Also KJV is not always following Masoretic , it is following LXX many times so your argument is not valid .

Chinchilla said:

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Also, Chinchilla. Do you disagree with the KJV rendering on Genesis 2:5 that says there was no man to till the ground?

My other friend here suggests that we cannot trust what our Bible says in the English. This to me is insanity. Do folks honestly read their Bibles in the Hebrew and Greek? I sure don't. Most Christians I know read their Bible in the English. To say that.... "Oh, now wait a minute, God's Word does not really say that." "See, in the original language it says something completely different." That to me sounds like something that is going to make me doubt God's Word in what it says plainly. For the devil God said to Eve, yea, hath God said? Yet, God's command to Adam was plain and clear to him. Adam did not have to decipher what God was saying.

Chinchilla said:

Likewise you , can you refute the claim in this video ?

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I just did.

You said:

Hands like lion or pierced hands ? Young woman or virgin ?

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I skimmed the video to the point of the verse that he thought was a problem. I generally do not watch the entirety of videos (under normal circumstances) if I know it is non-sense. Please enlighten me as to what verses you are referring to that are a problem.

Jason0047 said:

My other friend here suggests that we cannot trust what our Bible says in the English. This to me is insanity. Do folks honestly read their Bibles in the Hebrew and Greek? I sure don't. Most Christians I know read their Bible in the English. To say that.... "Oh, now wait a minute, God's Word does not really say that." "See, in the original language it says something completely different." That to me sounds like something that is going to make me doubt God's Word in what it says plainly. For the devil God said to Eve, yea, hath God said? Yet, God's command to Adam was plain and clear to him. Adam did not have to decipher what God was saying.

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Could gentiles read Jewish texts for nearly 2000 years ? No
Was God the God of gentiles aswell ? yes
Why didn't he provide Scriptures to gentiles but onlyto Jews ? Don't know
But that does not get rid of the fast that they had no Scriptures for 2000 years .

Chinchilla said:

How do you know they are corrupt ? Because of them we have evidence of there being NT alredy at 50 or so AD . Also KJV is not always following Masoretic , it is following LXX many times so your argument is not valid .

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Because the verse is partially corrupt in it's message. It is saying something that is technically not true. God is a God of judgment, too. So it would not be true to say that God is gracious in all His ways. There are cults who reject the Old Testament because they do not think God is violent.

Jason0047 said:

I skimmed the video to the point of the verse that he thought was a problem. I am not going to watch the whole thing knowing it is non-sense. Please enlighten me as to what verses you are referring to that are a problem.

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It would hurt your faith so better don't watch the video if you rely on this translation so much , but if you want to know the truth then watch it and refute it if you can .

Basically Masoretic text is corrupted by Jews who rejected Christ and they changed the prophecies to not make him appear like he fulfilled them .
NT is quoting about 80% of the time from LXX rather from Masoretic , and KJV itself has most of these prophecies taken from LXX , it was not based purerly on Masoretic text .

Chinchilla said:

Could gentiles read Jewish texts for nearly 2000 years ? No
Was God the God of gentiles aswell ? yes
Why didn't he provide Scriptures to gentiles but onlyto Jews ? Don't know
But that does not get rid of the fast that they had no Scriptures for 2000 years .

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You are not God to truly know or follow the true line of believers through out history. Not everything was recorded by man; And not everything man says in History is always true, either. God's Word is what you can trust. You can test to see if God's Word is divine by looking at the evidences. But it does not appear like you are interested in doing that.

Jason0047 said:

Is God going to require everyone to know the original languages so as to understand His Word?

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I do not think people well use language in Heaven, we just read each others thoughts. Or we are a part of the universal consciousness. There are times here on earth we will have a whole conversation with someone using just our thoughts but that will be a lot more common in Heaven.

I think we will learn the Hebrew Language in Heaven though. They say that is the Language God uses for Creation. I plan to go to the University there. I plan to study under all of the great teachers we read in our Bible. Even if they only show up for a brief moment in time. I know we will be teaching in Heaven. There are lots of children that never were able to have the experience here that we are having. So we can share with them our testimony.

I work hard to study and learn so I will have more merit when I get to Heaven and they will consider me worthy there. So I will have more opportunities available to me. Jesus shows us how we can have rewards in Heaven and how that is where our treasure is to be. Freely we receive so freely we are to give. Use to be they would say God will give to us what He can get through us to others.

Jesus taught us to pray: "Thy Kingdom Come, Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven". We we have to learn and study Heaven so we know what God wants for Planet Earth.

Chinchilla said:

It would hurt your faith so better don't watch the video if you rely on this translation so much , but if you want to know the truth then watch it and refute it if you can .

Basically Masoretic text is corrupted by Jews who rejected Christ and they changed the prophecies to not make him appear like he fulfilled them .
NT is quoting about 80% of the time from LXX rather from Masoretic , and KJV itself has most of these prophecies taken from LXX , it was not based purerly on Masoretic text .

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Spouting off historical facts does not mean anything. A person can say this text existed before this one but they could be just making that up. The only way you can truly know if the KJV is divinely inspired is by looking at the OBSERVATIONAL evidences and NOT Historical evidences (with some guy saying.... "Hey, believe me, I know this document existed before this one and it disproves blah blah."). Observational evidences is looking at something in the here and now with God's Word. It is seeing how God's Word is divine in origin.

I will make you a deal. If you watch Mike Hoggard's video entirely on the number 8, I will watch the entirety of your video. But please realize I have debated the KJV tons of times over the many years of me being a believer and I have run into tougher challenges than the one you have presented to me.