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Tree of Church History: How are branches changing currently within Ancient Christian spaces or Traditional ones?

Gxg (G²)

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Good Day,

I hope all here are doing well. I has been a long time since really being present here in the forums - and a lot of things (traumatic, to be honest) that have happened which caused me to need a substantial break. If I am honest, after seeing a tendency in some spaces I left literally embrace open American civil religion / Eurocentrism and xenophobia, it was a lot to process. Awhile ago, I was saddened at how other Evangelicals (Converts, more so in the tradition of Fundamentalists) who came into one parish was investing in started to then try and explain that slavery itself was not really a "bad thing" for African Americans in the U.S.

Although I had just had a good/encouraging discussion with others on what God was doing in communities through genealogy/helping kin to find one another again because of forced separations, a group of others came in/ interjected into the conversation once the Civil War was brought up. They dismissed the experiences of churches who addressed the matter, including Black Catholics who've shared and others I brought up such as the Brotherhood of St.Moses the Black. Moreover, they tried to use appeal to Monarchy in Byzantium to conclude that others were wrong to ever speak out against abuses in the government with slave trafficking/Black Codes and things that Christians did to certain groups.

The conclusions led to me being told at one point that what happened to those in my family (as my grandmother was the daughter of a slave and we had documents) was silly - and that there was no documentation to show that chattel slavery itself was bad. What stood out to me in the process of conversation with others was that many said openly (as folks with Rural Georgia roots) that they felt the church gave them pride as a white person cause they were told that being country/rural meant they were less...and at the same time, they also noted it was a major struggle for them because they weren't really comfortable with Black folks sharing their experiences AND they ended up merging their ideology (the belief that things shouldn't change) with what they saw in the church.

While I am glad others did speak out, it intrigued me the priest (British) could relate because of what happened with the Irish in the early church and having to reshape themselves uniquely in the era of St. Patrick and St.Columba when they had a lot of major problems occurring (Including trafficking) and the Celtic. The dynamics are very similar to what happened for the Kongolese Catholic Christians when kidnapping was forced upon them and they had to fight back, separating themselves from the Portuguese Catholics who wanted to practice kidnapping in their space.

The work of Dr. Justo Gonzales came to my mind immediately for many reasons. He noted what happened when Catholics came to the Americas and those who were impacted (Indigenous) ended up creating new experiences in their expression of their faith - and that led to competition with other expressions that didn't want their voices.

With that being said, I have been discussing with others lately on how so many things seem to develop over trauma/traumatic events and branches in the church can be shaped by this. I would love to hear from others on the following points: What are significant world events that have caused the the church or groups within it to change substantially? Do you feel that there are dynamics today that are leading into more groups within Traditional Church circles to develop in ways that differ from others in the same camp?




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Clare73

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Slavery, in itself, is ordained by God (Lev 25:39-46) and while,
like poverty (1 Sa 2:7, Mk 14:7), sickness (Dt 32:39) and disability (Ex 4:11, Jn 9:2-3) also ordained by God,
it is not immoral, it can be undesirable.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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Slavery, in itself, is ordained by God (Lev 25:39-46) and while,
like poverty (1 Sa 2:7, Mk 14:7), sickness (Dt 32:39) and disability (Ex 4:11, Jn 9:2-3) also ordained by God,
it is not immoral, it can be undesirable.
That would go directly against (in light of the whole history of scripture) where God already condemned trafficking directly. At several points.

The Bible forbids kidnapping a person and selling them, with the punishment being death (Exodus 21:16). The New Testament discourages becoming enslaved to humans, even with the phrase "You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of human beings" (1 Corinthians 7:23). In the Old Testament, Israelite regulations freed slaves every seventh year (Ex. 21:2), commanded the death penalty for man-stealing (Ex. 21:16), and generally sought to limit the institution in protection of the slave. Further, slavery was generally not organized by race but by circumstance and economics (for example, foreigners, debtors, and so on). Paul even clearly laid out from 1 Timothy 1:9-11 that slavery or trafficking was already condemned according to the law. Deuteronomy 24:7, which prescribe the death penalty for kidnapping and selling a person - and The New Testament also shows the spiritual and ethical contradictions of slavery, especially with verses like Galatians 3:28 ("There is neither slave nor free") and 1 Corinthians 7:23 ("do not become slaves of human beings").

People confused the concept of servant in the Old Testament with ethnicity and that's why there were branches in the church that literally said it was okay to enslave Indigenous communities in the Americas or those across Africa. However, there were Catholic branches of the church that never went with this and this is a point that has been fascinating to me. A good read on the issue would be “Does the Bible Condone Slavery? - Christian Think Tank” () / ). There have been others who have pointed out that Kongolese Catholicism led to many slave revolts because they understood scripture itself never condoned abusing anyone, in the same way the Hebrews were not allowed to abuse as they were abused in Egypt by the Egyptians.





But to the main point, there's generally a dismissal and rarely an engagement with the text. In regards to the OP, I am curious about how branches in the church have long been impacted by cultural norms allowing for things to happen to others that God never sanctioned.
 
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Clare73

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That would go directly against (in light of the whole history of scripture) where God already condemned trafficking directly. At several points.
The slavery ordained by God did not allow kidnapping for slavery.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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The slavery ordained by God did not allow kidnapping for slavery.
That was not slavery in the sense as it occurred in the Americas - Chattel Slavery/race-based - and as it concerns what God set up, it was a form of indentured servitude. Nothing close to what happened overall, from the Barbary Slave Trade to the Trans-Atlantic Slave trade and further. We know abuses were NOT allowed and others were to be set free - and it was NEVER allowed to claim someone's ethnicity means they were meant to be enslaved.

The Bible never condoned slavery and insisting such goes against the entire text - and practical places for review can be found here in “Does the Bible Condone Slavery? - Christian Think Tank” () - as it concerns the entire Old Testament context where servants hired themselves out.


The point, however, of the OP isn't about what God defined with servants in the Old Testament. This is the question: What are significant world events that have caused the the church or groups within it to change substantially? Do you feel that there are dynamics today that are leading into more groups within Traditional Church circles to develop in ways that differ from others in the same camp?
 
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