"trapped in a never-ending sin-and-repent cycle that you can't escape from"

[peteey]

All right I was reading on a christian webpage about the issues with Marylin Manson, I probably spelt that wrong... I don't agree with the guy at all, but this quote on what he said about sin kind of hit home nd bothered me.


"But it's really just human nature. I started to learn that everything that's considered a sin is what makes you a human being. All the seven deadly sins are man's true nature. To be greedy. To be hateful. To have lust. Of course, you have to control them, but if you're made to feel guilty for being human, then you're going to be trapped in a never-ending sin-and-repent cycle that you can't escape from"

The first part of it I do not agree with it, yes it is our human nature, but that is because we have sin in our lives...sin does not make us human, sin condemns to what we could be as humans.
However the last part of his quote..."but if you're made to feel guilty for being human, then you're going to be but if you're made to feel guilty for being human, then you're going to be trapped in a never-ending sin-and-repent cycle that you can't escape from"" kind of upset me.

As christians I know we are free from sin, but yes, we still sin, but we have faith in Christ that this was paid for. But I know that if I happen to sin, or notice that what I am doing is sinful, I get an extremely guilty feeling. or I really can't stand the fact that I just commited a sin against my Lord and King. God does not want us to live in guilt our entire lives does he? I understand the wonderful gift of God's grace and how amazing it is....but like MM said to have a never ending sin and repent cycle...seems hopeless sometimes...does this make sense? Does anyone have any input on this?
If I have not made my self clear, I can try to do so.
I was raised in a christian home, so I believed and accepted Jesus and what he did for me at a really early age, however I sometimes question my faith because I had it at such an early age, and for some of the things i have done in my life that I can hardly forgive myself for.
Any words of input or advice would be awesome

Thank you and Godbless.

 

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Peteey,

I was raised in a christian home, so I believed and accepted Jesus and what he did for me at a really early age, however I sometimes question my faith because I had it at such an early age, and for some of the things i have done in my life that I can hardly forgive myself for.

It appears you are still alive and kicking, so there continues to be hope for you. Do not be discouraged. There is no one that NEVER sins. But once you have believed, the Holy Spirit comes to reside IN YOU, and when you sin, he pricks your conscience to warn you of what you have done, that you committed an offense to God. You have been made "alive" to God now. Consider yourself dead to sin. Fill your time with things that are pleasing to God such as prayer, study and fellowship with the saints. Separate yourself from those in the world who might lead you astray. There is no such thing as instantaneously going from being a newborn Christian to a fully mature Christian. Involve yourself in activities that keep you Christ centered. Enjoy others that are like minded.

Just as a baby has to learn to walk, it takes time, but always keep the goal in mind. If you fall, get back up and try again. God will never leave you nor forsake you.

But do not think you can use His "grace" toward you to commit sin. When you do that, eventually you become so hardened against the Holy Spirit that you may no longer hear Him speaking to you, which in that case God turns you over to a "reprobate mind". There is only HELL to pay then.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

 

[Sharky]

Good response DE.

Just adding a little bit, it's the willful sins that you gotta worry about. Willful sins can vary from different things but they are all the same. Knowingly shoving Christ in God's face and forget about God and just live your sinful life with no fear of God. Now these sins are forgivable but they're the ones that truely cause you to God and possibly your salvation (A bit of debate on this subject but i won't go through it now).

Now a christian (EG you) who gave his life to Christ now lives in Christ. IF you sin unintentionally like accidentally swearing or hating someone without knowing it or maybe unknown sins (sins you didn't know were sins before) or giving in to temptationss etc you fall as a christian. You won't be held accountable but your sin in you. Basically you are saved but the sin inside you sinned, not you spiritually speaking.

K it might sound contravesial so don't base it on what i said. I read it somewhere in romans. ALWAYS check your bible before you believe anyone whether it be a pastor or me. I make mistakes too .

 

[drdeancrosby]

I'm trying real hard not to upset you but I just can't figure out how to do it.The only thing I pick up from your message is that you have an immature faith.And that can lead to a lack of self-control.So what do you do about it?Becoming more spiritual will help because that will get you closer to God.My guess is that your idea of keeping the sabbath day holy is to spend an hour in church and then the rest of the holy day engaged in secular and maybe even demented activities.If you observed just this one of the ten commandments to start with,you'll draw alot closer to God.Spending a full day once a week engaged in religious activities will help you mentally,physically and spiritually.You'll also save money by not betting on the Sunday football games.Ok after you've stopped violating one commandment for a while,you'll become spiritually strong enough to start obeying the others also.With practice you'll even be able to stop worshiping the gods of money,sex . hate and war.The next step is to find an accountability partner you can call on to help you when you're tempted to fall from your moral high ground.The next step is to pray regularly for the baptism of the Holy Spirit.That will give you a personal relationship with Jesus and that will help you become alot more sin-proof.Then you should be strong enough to separate yourself from our perverted society ("he who loves the world is an enemy of God) so you'll be removed from most temptation
that keeps messing you over now.So that's how to take care of your problem.The solution is not to stop repenting of sin - that's always necessary.The solution is to become a man of God so you don't have much to repent for.

 

[thereselittleflower]

All right I was reading on a christian webpage about the issues with Marylin Manson, I probably spelt that wrong... I don't agree with the guy at all, but this quote on what he said about sin kind of hit home nd bothered me.


"But it's really just human nature. I started to learn that everything that's considered a sin is what makes you a human being. All the seven deadly sins are man's true nature. To be greedy. To be hateful. To have lust. Of course, you have to control them, but if you're made to feel guilty for being human, then you're going to be trapped in a never-ending sin-and-repent cycle that you can't escape from"

The first part of it I do not agree with it, yes it is our human nature, but that is because we have sin in our lives...sin does not make us human, sin condemns to what we could be as humans.
However the last part of his quote..."but if you're made to feel guilty for being human, then you're going to be but if you're made to feel guilty for being human, then you're going to be trapped in a never-ending sin-and-repent cycle that you can't escape from"" kind of upset me.

Hi peteey

Yes, it is an upseetting concept . . and it can lead to dispair if looked at wrongly . .

God is not interested in having you be trapped in a neverending cycle of sinning and repebting and getting no closer to being like Christ in this life than you were when you first started a walk of faith with Him . .

God wants to free you from sin . . not just after you get to heaven, but in the hear and now . . The problem is that unless we have led godly lives from childhood, we have built up bad habits in ways of thinking and acting that are difficult to change . .

God does things differently for different people . . some we look at and we see dramatic changes in thier lives right away . . some are much more gradual . .

We are not stuck in an neverending cycle of sinning and repenting for the rest of our lives.

God has provided His Grace to transform us so that we may experience actual and real freedom from sin in this life . . but most do not reach that experience because of what it will cost them to do so - they are not willing to completely deny themselves and follow Him . .

To be as free from sin as possible requires our surrender to Christ, our death to self, and our taking up our crosses and following Him - this leads (more quickly for some, more gradually for others) to an interior development of the life of Christ in our thoughts and heart which finds its expression in our lives, our words, our actions . .

There are times in this walk when most experience tremendous trouble with temptations and sin . . but if they perservere in following their Lord, they do come out on the other side of this relatively free of the experience of "deadly" sin any longer in their lives.

Sosme people don't believe that such is possible . . so they consign themselves to a life battling sin, caving into it, repenting from it, getting up and dusting themselves off only to repeat the process over and over again . . but this is not what Christ really wants us to have to experience. And there are those who have indeed experienced life free form sin by and in the Grace of God . . but they died daily to themselves by the power of God . .

As christians I know we are free from sin, but yes, we still sin, but we have faith in Christ that this was paid for. But I know that if I happen to sin, or notice that what I am doing is sinful, I get an extremely guilty feeling. or I really can't stand the fact that I just commited a sin against my Lord and King. God does not want us to live in guilt our entire lives does he?

If you listen to those who tell you to ignore your feelings of guilt, you could be denying yourself the process by which you can really live a Christian life . .

But you have to differentiate between guilt and conviction . . our enemy loves to lay on us guilt trips .. many times all he has to do is watch as we do it to ourselves .. but when the Holy Spirit convicts one of sin, there is not the same sense of guilt . .there is remorse, repentence and a turning to God for forgiveness . .

Many times we ask God to forgive us, but then we wonder if we have really been forgiven. But that is another topic. . .

I understand the wonderful gift of God's grace and how amazing it is....but like MM said to have a never ending sin and repent cycle...seems hopeless sometimes...does this make sense? Does anyone have any input on this?
If I have not made my self clear, I can try to do so.
I was raised in a christian home, so I believed and accepted Jesus and what he did for me at a really early age, however I sometimes question my faith because I had it at such an early age, and for some of the things i have done in my life that I can hardly forgive myself for.
Any words of input or advice would be awesome

May I suggest a book to you? The Interior Castle by Theresa de Avila . . this was written several hundred years ago, but is a spiritual masterpiece that I think will help answer some of these questions.

Also, another book that will help you greatly understand God's Grace in ways you may not have even imagined . . The Glories of Divine Grace by Fr. Matthias J. Scheedben - another deeply spiritual classic and masterpiece.

One that is hailed by all Christians, Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox is The Imitation of Christ by Thomas À Kempis. . . incredible book!

What I found several years ago, is that the further I went back through the years and centuries in Christian writings the deeper the writings were and the deeper the understanding of the christian faith and walk these authors had.

I hope this helps!

Peace in Him!

 

[sawdust]

"But it's really just human nature. I started to learn that everything that's considered a sin is what makes you a human being. All the seven deadly sins are man's true nature. To be greedy. To be hateful. To have lust. Of course, you have to control them, but if you're made to feel guilty for being human, then you're going to be trapped in a never-ending sin-and-repent cycle that you can't escape from"

Hi Peteey,
First off it is not human nature to sin. Jesus Christ was "fully human and yet without sin." We do not sin because we are human, we sin because we are sinners.
I'm sure you know Jn3:16. God's forgiveness applies to the whole world, past present and future. Jesus died "for the forgiveness of sins". That's all of them Peteey, yours, mine and everyone else. The sin of the whole world was laid on Christ. Everyone is forgiven, however it is only those who acknowlege and trust in this act (remembering that Jesus is The Act) of Grace that are able to partake of the freedom which is in Christ. Now 1Jn1:9 says something very important that most people forget and that is that God is not only "faithful to forgive but that He also cleanses us from all unrighteousness." This is excellent news for you and me, because now when we find out we are sinners and have sinned we can rejoice in the promise of God to bring us "one degree closer" to the glory for which He intends for us. Don't let Satan deceive you, "Hell is for wimps!" Only those who cower and cringe under the weight of their sin with no thought for the Lord's great and wonderful work end up taking the path of death and despair.
Now this is a discipline Peteey. Do not expect to have "your act all together" from the outset. That is why we are called disciples. (disciples/discipline..do you see the connection) You are now a "new creation in Christ" and you are to "reckon yourself dead to sin". The practical way to do this is to concentrate your thoughts, words and deeds upon Christ not upon your sin. You are to give no more thought to yourself. If you find yourself thinking about your sin, turn it around and think about Jesus. "take every thought captive." Stand Peteey, with the full armour of God. These are exciting times, dangerous times. Read Psalms 1 & 119:11 (I think it is verse 11) "I hide the Word of the Lord in my heart, that I may not sin against Thee." also "Thy Word is a lamp to my feet".(same Psalm) Immerse yourself in Christ for that is where your life is hid.
take care

 

[peteey]

"Now this is a discipline Peteey. Do not expect to have "your act all together" from the outset. That is why we are called disciples. (disciples/discipline..do you see the connection) You are now a "new creation in Christ" and you are to "reckon yourself dead to sin". The practical way to do this is to concentrate your thoughts, words and deeds upon Christ not upon your sin. You are to give no more thought to yourself. If you find yourself thinking about your sin, turn it around and think about Jesus. "take every thought captive." Stand Peteey, with the full armour of God."


The thing is I have been "dealing" with a particular sin for many many years...and I get sooo extremely tired of the fact that I do it. And it's really been brought to my attention that this particular sin is causing a gap in my relationship with Christ. Everytime I commit this sin, I get upset with myself for doing it, and then I ask for forgiveness, and for Him to clense me, to take it away, because I hate it so much...and a few weeks will go by, and then BAM I do it again. And I get so extremely frustrated because I feel like I am not praying right, or i am not meaning it when I am praying, which I am...or God is not hearing me, or that I am not really a christian because I can't stop this one particular sin. It drives me insane....and I read 2 corinthaians...when Paul is begging God to take away his problem, and God tells him that his grace is suffient...and that brings me comfort, but I don't want to keep doing this, and I feel like I hardly have control over it sometimes...it makes me question my faith...and lately I feel it has made me question the fact that how could God love me, if I keep asking for forgivness, and then keep falling in the same hole every single time. It gets so tiring. does that make sense? I just don't know what to do anymore..and I am so tired of failing everytime.....

 

[William Nunn]

Don't question God's love for you Peteey, especially if you admit that it's you who are failing Him. It's hard to comment on your particualr situation without knowing the sin you speak of (and I'm not asking you to reveal it), but something you may want to consider is removing yourself from the siuation in which you continue to commit this sin. Is a certain person who instigates it? Then cut your contact with that person. Is it a certain place you go to that instigates it? Then do not go to that place.

And as harsh as this may sound Peteey, perhaps you just need to be less weak. It's hard for all of us to not commit sin. In my case, it's hard not to commit sins os a sexual nature, and right now I am in an enviroment that is just FULL of temptation. It's been a sore trial resisting, but now that I have, I feel closer to God, which is great. So perhaps when you are about to commit this sin, you need to remember that your relationship with God comes first and your own desires second. You DO have mastery over your own body and can keep yourself from commiting this particular sin. Don't get discouraged about praying. If you sincerely want to overcome this sin, the Lord will help you do it. I hope I've been at least a bit helpful.

 

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Peteey,

Why do you think what you do is a sin? Is it breaking one of the 10 commandments? Or have others convinced you, perhaps even Satan has convinced you that your "sin" is SIN, that is, something that separates you from God. But each man is found guilty of sin when he does something that is NOT of faith.

Find someone that is near you, that you can trust and confide in. Someone with some maturity in Christ. Then let them help you to become a disciple of Christ that you want to be.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

 

[Rafael]

It is true that man is born with a nature to sin, and along with that nature comes death. It is natural for man to sin and to die.
However, this is not the way God created man to be in the first place, but happened as a result of deception by satan and a bad choice made by Adam, man's progenitor, in the garden.
Through God's love and offering in His Son Jesus, we can overcome the nature of sin and death. Yes, we can gratify our base nature easily with no fight or effort to better ourselves from selfishness, greed, and warlike behaviour, but that is the very reason the world teeters on the brink of destruction as we speak here. Only by the prayers and for the sake of God's own people does the world not fall into a total destruction of war and selfish greed. We have a choice to make, to live or to die. To continue in sin is to continue in death, but life can be had through God's Son who paid the penalty for all of mankinds sinful nature.
Marylin actually speaks the truth about man's nature, but he does not speak of the penalty for selfish greedy lives of hedonism that do not serve mankind as a brother. Jesus came and GAVE, and we must learn to go against our selfish egotistic nature and give too, as the blood of the world crys against us everyday when 20 to 30 thousand children die from starvation that could probably be saved by one years salary of what Marylin's industry of blasphemy produces. He is a genuine enemy of God and is proud of it, by what I can tell, but even he is not aware of the spiritual forces that control his life. I hope you can escape from the trap and snare that has been set out for your soul by satan, and will pray for you - that you could make a positive difference in this world while you sojourn here for this short time. We only have just a small time to build up riches and treasure for our eternal lives, or would we rather have it all here for a short time, neglecting our responsibility for the gift of life by God, and then go naked, miserable and tortured for eternity wthout the Father of true life and love?

 

[Svt4Him]

yes it is our human nature, but that is because we have sin in our lives...sin does not make us human, sin condemns to what we could be as humans.

let me just focus on this for a sec. I do not believe it's natural for us to desire sin. If that was so, then people wouldn't feel any moral responsibility, and most do. Ask anyone if they think stealing is wrong, and they should say yes. Why? Becuase of our human nature, or the law of human nature. The problem is we as humans act contrary to this law of nature. We shouldn't feel bad for doing what we know we should, and that is why I disagree that we need to sin to be human.

 

[Joshua Howard]

I get an extremely guilty feeling. or I really can't stand the fact that I just commited a sin against my Lord and King. God does not want us to live in guilt our entire lives does he? I understand the wonderful gift of God's grace and how amazing it is....but like MM said to have a never ending sin and repent cycle...seems hopeless sometimes...does this make sense? Does anyone have any input on this?

Peteey, if he is truly your Lord and King, remember that, and hold to it always. Jesus will forgive us as often as we need him to. As I have stated in some of my other posts elsewhere, I believe that the keys to overcoming sin are (1), attaining a tender heart before God, which will recognize sin and truly be willing to give up all things for the sake of righteousness, and (2), being determined, disciplined, and holding fast to the knowledge that freedom can be attained. You don't have to live in constant bondage to sin!

Begin by doing away with everything that doesn't seem right, and doing everything that you feel you ought to. It isn't always easy, but if you establish a disciplined life in the small areas, you will gain strength in the larger ones. I've often hated myself, but the important thing is to keep getting up again and going on with renewed vigor. And remember, when you fall, to always see what caused you to fall, lest you walk into the same trap of the enemy again.

Persevere, and you will be rewarded!

 

[nephilimiyr]

What a wonderful thread! This is just what I needed to read today!

Here's something I wrote in another forum...

1 John 1:8-10, If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

I don't believe that John is speaking to unsaved people here, he is writting this first epistle to people who have already been saved, people who are walking in the light. Thus John tells us that we all do sin but his point is if we go to Jesus and confess our sins to him, Jesus will forgive us.

1 John 2:1, My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

John is saying he is writting these things so that we always strive to stay away from sin, to walk in the light but not in the darkness. However John lets us know that even if we do sin we still have an advocate with the Father. That if we call upon his name and ask forgiveness he is faithful and just to forgive us. Why? because we are his children.

1 John 3:2, Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

If we are saved we are considered the sons of God but we will not be LIKE him, meaning we will not be totally free from sin and in an everlasting righteous state untill that day when he will appear. That is the day Jesus comes again to claim his kingdom. That is the day when all of God's children will shead this sinful flesh and be made perfect!!!

 

[GodsWatchman]

You HAVE BEEN Saved! Its not that Jesus "will forgive you" or that God "might" overlook a thing. You HAVE BEEN Saved. If you are in the fold now - look back because you WERE saved. It was done 2000 years ago. The H.S. will "pin prick" you for a deed - but He doesn't hold your feet to the fire on it - thats the Accuser who does that. And in doing so - if you listen to the Accuser and not the Word - then you are displaying faith in the Accuser and not the Saviour.

I too stuggle with such things - but ya know what? I "wash in the Word" and hold fast to the promise that God will PERFECT ME in Him. When? Day by day - wash in the Word and grow in the saving knowledge of our Lord and Saviour. Trust in Him that he has DELIVERED you from all sin (past tense) and that your perfection is in the works.

Thanks for sharing with us - and we are Saved by Our Faith ::

Lu 7:50 And he said unto the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

 

[Joshua Howard]

1 John 3:2, Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

I never understood that verse, but in your light it has new meaning to me! Thanks for the insight! There is nothing more wonderful than the neverchanging fact of God's Eternal Grace! Praise the Lord for All He's Done!

 

[peteey]

WOW! you guys I really really appreciate everything that has been said here...I came into this thread heavy hearted, and somewhere along the way, my eyes were closed to God's grace, I'm assuming that was Satan's doing, and me being stubborn to God's grace...to turn away from it, but after reading your posts...my eyes have been open again, and I have great joy in my heart and HOPE! that this sin and all sin can and will be conquered! Thank you so much for your encouragement!!
Blessings to you all!!

 

[peteey]

I should say it HAS been conqured through Christ!!