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Transitional Fossil Features

Strathos

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I never said that the situations will always turn out this way 100% of the time, that's obviously not true. But there is a definite trend towards the kind of scenario I laid out. I believe that the anti-evolution creationist movement has done more to harm Christianity than to help it.
 
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MikeEnders

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since you say its definite do you have any data that shows that trend? because I have not found that to be the case. If anything I have found that if you teach young people that they should abandon the natural reading of the text for the accepted scientific consensus you give them the impression that scientific consensus (that includes avowed atheists) trumps God's word (and they get that sense even if you try to sell them an unnatural reading is natural). I have found there is no good reason for me to do that. I will grant you that certain traditions that are not biblical at all have given rise to us defending ideas that are not anywhere at all in the Genesis one (such as God creating each animal individually when one single command is what creates all life coming out of water and one command covers everything coming out of the Earth).
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Please explain why we are still identifying new species every year.

Because you continue to incorrectly classify them every year. And because you have so many fossils lying about you can't search them all, but still can't seem to find any transitional's, except what you label incorrectly, and then claim you lack fossils...

You keep adding new species the same way you added them with Darwin's Finches. By labeling them before you ever get around to studying them. And then when you do study them and find those finches all interbreed - you refuse to correct your mistakes. If you corrected everything that was wrong you'd be down a few tens of thousands of species. Not counting all the fossils you have incorrectly classified.

The explanation is simple as one of your own evolutionists explained to you: "scientists have egos, and scientists like to name things." Different features - separate species. Similar features - separate species. Interbreeding and producing fertile offspring - same species and separate species - depending on whatever they want them to be at the time. No consistency whatsoever.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Is it OK for creationists like yourself to reject science because you are filled with pride based on your faith?

Who's rejecting the science? I accept breed mates with breed producing new breeds within the species. I accept that all those finches that breed and produce fertile offspring are the same species - merely different breeds. I accept that E. coli will always remain E. coli - no matter how many times it is mutated - over no matter how many generations.

I accept that the fossil record merely reflects what we see in the natural world - breed mating with breed producing new breeds (variation) within the species. I also accept this is done through the recombination of genetic material and dominant and recessive traits. I accept that all retroviruses are foreign to the host and that these retroviruses have been shown to bring foreign genomes across the species line. I accept that species adapted by local conditions are by definition infraspecific taxa and not separate species.

I accept all of the science, the science just does not point to evolution by mutation of one species into another.
 
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PapaZoom

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I agree your thoughts on this matter truthseeker. It makes no sense to me why someone would characterize a Christian's belief this way: "Is it OK for creationists like yourself to reject science because you are filled with pride based on your faith?" A complete mis-characterization of what is actually true about Christians.
 
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Strathos

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People are leaving Christianity in record numbers, and the 'nones', or non-religiously affiliated, are growing rapidly worldwide. I'm simply going by what I've observed, that if you talk to many of these people, most of them were either raised by non-religious parents, or deconverted from strict fundamentalism.

As for God's word, Jesus spoke in parables to teach moral and spiritual lessons, and many parts of the Bible are clearly figurative (Jesus is not literally a lamb or a lion, just to mention one obvious one).
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Yah, they like to classify things before they actually understand whats going on - like with Finches and Christians. Science is what actually turned me back to faith.

Pride that it is the only one that successfully explains what we observe perhaps.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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This is quite incorrect.

It has grown 1.3% per population - not decreased.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_population_growth

As for God's word, Jesus spoke in parables to teach moral and spiritual lessons, and many parts of the Bible are clearly figurative (Jesus is not literally a lamb or a lion, just to mention one obvious one).

Sure a lot of it is - parables you are to apply to the world or to a situation. But then again I expect you understood what was meant when they spoke of him as the lion of the tribe of Judah? Or as a lamb?

But you are correct - not everyone will understand those parables or were meant to - in fact the vast majority will get them wrong.

http://biblehub.com/matthew/13-14.htm
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Its a busy world with lots of things to get done and little time to do it in today's world. Are you implying that because one may not attend church services regularly they do not believe?

And yet it has grown per population, despite claims church attendance is decreasing.

Perhaps it is just the pastors of those churches - loosing their flocks because they themselves have become lackadaisical? Perhaps they are simply going elsewhere?

http://www.christianpost.com/news/poll-church-attendance-increasing-in-us-45729/
 
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Justatruthseeker

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So you think Christians today are just too busy with worldly affairs to spend time worshipping God? That sounds like something He warned us about.

He sure did!

The question is - are they going to their private place still to seek Him? And not just before others?

http://biblehub.com/matthew/6-6.htm

The question is really how much thought do we give to Him, once that public demonstration of faith is over?

http://biblehub.com/james/2-18.htm

And this is why I am here often. Because I like to debate and I like to keep thoughts of Him in my mind. I also try to satisfy both the public and private from one place. Some are good talkers - people persons, some are better with words, to each his own I would say.
 
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Willtor

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All of the science being done supports evolution, despite what you say. Maybe evolution is wrong. Maybe it's all mis-classification. But that means that science is wrong, not that science points to something else. Further, your example of E. coli indicates that you don't understand the theory you're trying to combat. And that's okay with AV1611VET, and maybe it's okay with you, but it means that your responses are actually attacking something that evolution attacks, too.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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If your excuse is that they don't have time to pray, why would you expect them to spend as much time praying in private as they did in public?

Who says I do? That's not what you asked.

Do I believe that those that started the inquisitions were actually Christian? Not a chance.
Should I believe that wolves in sheep's clothing are actually sheep?

Maybe in an evolutionary world. In that world of illusions. Where what is real isn't real until we observe it, and cat's in boxes are neither alive nor dead until the box is opened. Maybe in that world the wolf becomes a sheep. But that was warned about too.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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No it means the science is correct - that it is your interpretation of what the science means that is incorrect. Husky remains Husky until it breeds with another breed and a new breed comes into the species line. As E. coli remain E. coli and as billion year old non-evolved bacteria show. That breed mates with breed producing new breeds within the species, which never become a new species.

And this is the problem. That you are willing to reject all of science - allowing it to be wrong - rather than to question your dogmatic faith in the evolution of life through mutation - even if that is part of the science that would be wrong and actually is. The data is judged by your theory - not the theory by the data. Mutations occur, but their viability to generate anything useful has basically been abandoned in plant and animal husbandry as a cause for anything, where the only actual study of it in reproduction occurs.

The only other place is in bacterial studies, in which the bacteria always remained the same species they already were - being as no new genomes ever get added. The question isn't that code that already existed was rewritten to allow citrus production, but that rewriting of code that already exists, will never make it anything other than what it was - even if it looses function - it will merely be infraspecific taxa - such as in incorrectly named "ring species."

Or experiments in which proteins that were assembled from specific conditions (in seven days), before a month had passed had all reduced to non-organic sludge and nothing else could be produced. Or those that produce other compounds required for life that all have conditions not compatible with any of the other processes.

The science isn't wrong - the science is telling you it is the theory of evolution that is wrong.
 
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PapaZoom

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and FYI: http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/02/living/pew-study-religion/
I believe that even though there is growth, many young people who grew up in the church are leaving never to come back. I'd have to research that a bit. I also believe that Islam's huge growth is in large part to the fact that they have larger families than most. Many convert but most are born into that belief system.
 
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Strathos

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There's also the fact that Muslims tend to be more into aggressive proselytization (to put it mildly).
 
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PapaZoom

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And now back to the regularly scheduled topic: "If no transitional fossils exist, can a creationist explain to me what features a transitional fossil should/would have? As a creationist what do YOU expect a transitional fossil to look like?"

Tiktaalik in an interesting creature. I've seen it before but not read about it extensively. Still reading stuff. If I understand it correctly, this creature represents a transition from fish to amphibian? I just finished reading some previous threads here about Tiktaalik and they were "interesting." I suppose this is as good as any transitional fossil discovery to explore further. I'm not sure what to make of it but it does have a cool looking head.
 
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