• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
  • We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

Transgendered sports question

Is it okay to have a woman’s sports team made up entirely of biological males?


  • Total voters
    15

Tanj

Redefined comfortable middle class
Mar 31, 2017
7,682
8,318
60
Australia
✟284,806.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
For those who have no issues with biological boys/men playing in women’s sports, would you have a problem with a women’s team made up entirely of men claiming to be women?

For those of you that insist on using loaded emotive phrases like "biological boys/men" rather than transgender, thus poisoning the conversation from the outset, would you have problem with once in your lives being civil?
 
  • Winner
Reactions: cow451
Upvote 0

Hammster

Carpe Chaos
Site Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
144,404
27,063
57
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,963,668.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
For those of you that insist on using loaded emotive phrases like "biological boys/men" rather than transgender, thus poisoning the conversation from the outset, would you have problem with once in your lives being civil?
It’s not loaded. It’s a truthful description. But if you want to suggest a better way to say it, I’ll listen.
 
Upvote 0

Hammster

Carpe Chaos
Site Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
144,404
27,063
57
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,963,668.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
No problem for me. Maybe they could play against a team of biological girls/women claiming to be men. A transgender league might be interesting. :oldthumbsup:
This isn’t about a transgendered league, though. This is about real women and girls no longer able to compete because men who think they are women/girls have taken their place. But you think that’s fair.
 
Upvote 0

jayem

Naturalist
Jun 24, 2003
15,429
7,166
74
St. Louis, MO.
✟426,066.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
This isn’t about a transgendered league, though. This is about real women and girls no longer able to compete because men who think they are women/girls have taken their place. But you think that’s fair.

Genetic (XY) men, who are truly gender dysphoric, take estrogens as part of their transition. So they are feminized. But even so, you’re assuming that men are inherently better athletes than women. That’s not necessarily true. Trained women are formidable. If you were around in the 70’s, you’ll remember Billie Jean King wiped the court with Bobby Riggs in their boy v. girl tennis challenge.

Not to go off topic, but fillies run against stallions all the time in thoroughbred racing. Though no filly has won the Triple Crown, they have won the Kentucky Derby, the Preakness, and the Belmont. And they’ve won steeplechase competitions. Heck, if horses can do it, why not us? :wave:
 
Upvote 0

grasping the after wind

That's grasping after the wind
Jan 18, 2010
19,458
6,355
Clarence Center NY USA
✟252,647.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Genetic (XY) men, who are truly gender dysphoric, take estrogens as part of their transition. So they are feminized. But even so, you’re assuming that men are inherently better athletes than women. That’s not necessarily true. Trained women are formidable. If you were around in the 70’s, you’ll remember Billie Jean King wiped the court with Bobby Riggs in their boy v. girl tennis challenge.

Not to go off topic, but fillies run against stallions all the time in thoroughbred racing. Though no filly has won the Triple Crown, they have won the Kentucky Derby, the Preakness, and the Belmont. And they’ve won steeplechase competitions. Heck, if horses can do it, why not us? :wave:


Once upon a time an old man lost a tennis match to the best woman tennis player in her prime. Therefore the average genetic male is not inherently better at athletic endeavors than the average genetic female.
 
Upvote 0

Hammster

Carpe Chaos
Site Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
144,404
27,063
57
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,963,668.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Genetic (XY) men, who are truly gender dysphoric, take estrogens as part of their transition. So they are feminized. But even so, you’re assuming that men are inherently better athletes than women. That’s not necessarily true. Trained women are formidable. If you were around in the 70’s, you’ll remember Billie Jean King wiped the court with Bobby Riggs in their boy v. girl tennis challenge.

Not to go off topic, but fillies run against stallions all the time in thoroughbred racing. Though no filly has won the Triple Crown, they have won the Kentucky Derby, the Preakness, and the Belmont. And they’ve won steeplechase competitions. Heck, if horses can do it, why not us? :wave:
Well okay then. Women should be almost as good as horses.
 
Upvote 0

jayem

Naturalist
Jun 24, 2003
15,429
7,166
74
St. Louis, MO.
✟426,066.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Well okay then. Women should be almost as good as horses.

Yep. My wife runs rings around me almost every day. ^_^

I didn’t really answer your OP question in the necessary detail. If there should be a team of properly diagnosed gender dysphoric men, who are taking estrogens and transitioning under medical supervision, then I see no reason why they shouldn’t compete against a women’s team. And I’ll bet the women athletes would welcome the challenge. And I’ll say the same for the reverse. If there was a team of gender dysphoric women, taking androgens and similarly undergoing transition, who wanted to compete against a men’s team, then why shouldn’t they?
 
Upvote 0

Hammster

Carpe Chaos
Site Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
144,404
27,063
57
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,963,668.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Yep. My wife runs rings around me almost every day. ^_^

I didn’t really answer your OP question in the necessary detail. If there should be a team of properly diagnosed gender dysphoric men, who are taking estrogens and transitioning under medical supervision, then I see no reason why they shouldn’t compete against a women’s team. And I’ll bet the women athletes would welcome the challenge. And I’ll say the same for the reverse. If there was a team of gender dysphoric women, taking androgens and similarly undergoing transition, who wanted to compete against a men’s team, then why shouldn’t they?
Thanks. I was wondering what rationalization would be used to discriminate against women.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Darkhorse
Upvote 0

jayem

Naturalist
Jun 24, 2003
15,429
7,166
74
St. Louis, MO.
✟426,066.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Thanks. I was wondering what rationalization would be used to discriminate against women.

Do you think women can’t compete? Hey, if a women’s athletic team is willing to take on a trans men’s team, then why not? This is the 21st century. It’s the thinking of a 100 years ago that women are the weaker sex.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: cow451
Upvote 0

Hammster

Carpe Chaos
Site Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
144,404
27,063
57
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,963,668.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Do you think women can’t compete? Hey, if a women’s athletic team is willing to take on a trans men’s team, then why not? This is the 21st century. It’s the thinking of a 100 years ago that women are the weaker sex.
Again, thanks.
 
Upvote 0

public hermit

social troglodyte
Site Supporter
Aug 20, 2019
12,670
13,519
East Coast
✟1,064,189.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Absolutely. Yes, go for it. In fact, a team entirely made up of transgender females would present us all with an opportunity to see what they're made of.
 
Upvote 0

cow451

Standing with Ukraine.
Site Supporter
May 29, 2012
41,108
24,136
Hot and Humid
✟1,120,516.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
For those who have no issues with biological boys/men playing in women’s sports, would you have a problem with a women’s team made up entirely of men claiming to be women?
The question is a strawman-type situation. That's why I didn't vote.

That said the states that are considering anti-transgender participation in female sports have not been able to find even one actual case where a trans female (male transitioning to female) has participated on a female amateur team.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: durangodawood
Upvote 0

Hammster

Carpe Chaos
Site Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
144,404
27,063
57
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,963,668.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
The question is a strawman-type situation. That's why I didn't vote.

That said the states that are considering anti-transgender participation in female sports have not been able to find even one actual case where a trans female (male transitioning to female) has participated on a female amateur team.
First off, how is it a straw man?
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Darkhorse
Upvote 0

cow451

Standing with Ukraine.
Site Supporter
May 29, 2012
41,108
24,136
Hot and Humid
✟1,120,516.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Given there isn’t even one trans female athlete playing on a girls’ team and you are not even correctly understanding what a transgender person is ..... you’re building a strawman argument.
 
Upvote 0

Hammster

Carpe Chaos
Site Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
144,404
27,063
57
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,963,668.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Given there isn’t even one trans female athlete playing on a girls’ team and you are not even correctly understanding what a transgender person is ..... you’re building a strawman argument.
That’s still not explaining how this is a straw man. There are actually men who think they are women who want to play on women’s teams. So the question is whether you’d be okay if the whole team was made up of these men?
 
Upvote 0

cow451

Standing with Ukraine.
Site Supporter
May 29, 2012
41,108
24,136
Hot and Humid
✟1,120,516.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
That’s still not explaining how this is a straw man. There are actually men who think they are women who want to play on women’s teams. So the question is whether you’d be okay if the whole team was made up of these men?
Are any of them transgender female?
 
Upvote 0

Hammster

Carpe Chaos
Site Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
144,404
27,063
57
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,963,668.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Are any of them transgender female?
The fact that you aren’t actually addressing the OP says much. This is typically the type of response I’ve seen to this question. Everyone knows what the facts are, but only some of us will actually state that’s there’s an inherent flaw in letting men compete as women against women.
 
Upvote 0