Tongues

Symes · Mar 16, 2004

Symes, when you are among anyone other than just yourself(like in a Sunday morning service) and you speak in tounges, then yes, there must be an interpretor. And, in that case, toungues may only be used 3 times. However, if you are alone and you speak in tounges there does not need to be an interpretor since tounges edifies oneself.

To say that if tounges is spoken ANYWHERE and there is no interpretor then tounges is from the devil, is deffinately wrong.

Why would you need to speak in tongues to God? As far as I know the person who is speaking in tongues to God has no idea what is being said.

That makes it from the devil.

Symes · Mar 17, 2004

Symes 1 Cor 14 never once says that tongues can come from the devil, it just isn't there. In fact that passage more than supports my assertion in that the gifts are practiced incorrectly. I will be glad to go more in depth but you are calling something that is from God, a work of the Devil, I would be careful of that were I you.

Read this

"4He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself"

Do you think it is OK to edify yourself?

"but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues,[4] unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified."

Paul wants the Church to be edified.

"9So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air."

In other words that type of tongues is from the devil. "just speaking into the air"

"13For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says"

"23So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand[7] or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?"

There are just a few verses to show that we must use this gift the right way and not to make fools of ourselves.

Heinrich · Mar 17, 2004

edify: To instruct especially so as to encourage intellectual, moral, or spiritual improvement.
edification: Intellectual, moral, or spiritual improvement; enlightenment.

So you say it is bad to edify oneself? People that are intellectually, morally and spiritually broken are rarely of help to the church.. It is actually those people that are spiritually mature that are of use to the church, mostly.

You seem to understand verse 23 correcly, but you seem to have missed verse 15:
"What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with understanding. ..."

Please do not put in words into Paul's mouth, he never said it is from the devil.
Infact he says he thank God that he speaks in tongues more than all of those at Corinth. verse 18. (So Paul is thanking God for this thing which is from the devil?)

Still I'm not getting any replys on my previous posts.

EdmundBlackadderTheThird · Mar 17, 2004

Paul also says that he is glad he speaks with tongues more than everyone else. I don't think he would be glad about something that comes from the devil.

Symes · Mar 17, 2004

Paul also says that he is glad he speaks with tongues more than everyone else. I don't think he would be glad about something that comes from the devil.

Not when it is used the right way. You will notice what I have said is that today most use it the wrong way. It is just a babble, the swaying, waving of hands, it is only in most cases an emotional hype. It is not from God when no one understands what is being said.

Tongues is only necessary to be used if one in the congregation cannot understand the language that is being used.

It is a gift that God gives and when all there can speak the same tongue then God does not give it. If it does come then it is from the devil.

Symes · Mar 17, 2004

Heinrich

Still I'm not getting any replys on my previous posts.

You may have to post again, went back a few pages and did not see it.

EdmundBlackadderTheThird · Mar 17, 2004

Symes said:
Not when it is used the right way. You will notice what I have said is that today most use it the wrong way. It is just a babble, the swaying, waving of hands, it is only in most cases an emotional hype. It is not from God when no one understands what is being said.

Tongues is only necessary to be used if one in the congregation cannot understand the language that is being used.

It is a gift that God gives and when all there can speak the same tongue then God does not give it. If it does come then it is from the devil.

You have provided no Biblical evidence for this whatsoever. The verses you provided show that they were using the gift wrongly, it is still a gift of the Holy Spirit and nothing less. Paul admonished them for using their gifts incorrectly but he never once said it was not from God, you are adding to the scripture in a way that is not even remotely accurate to the text. Paul mentions over and over that it is a gift from God and never says any different. Satan does have control over believers and does not have sway in a congregation full of believers, whether they practice their gifts correctly or not. To say otherwise is actually bordering on being against the rules as you are saying whole churches are doing the work of Satan, not only whole churches but many God fearing members here, myself included. I would tread very carefully as you are more than likely going to get reported at some point for saying that an accepted practice of a gift of the Holy Spirit is the work of the Devil.

Heinrich · Mar 17, 2004

I agree with you flesh99.

My once post was at the bottom of page 2
The other one is second from the bottom of page 3

TasManOfGod · Mar 17, 2004

I think a softly spoken word whether in tongues or otherwise is more powerful than a blast

Symes · Mar 17, 2004

You have provided no Biblical evidence for this whatsoever. The verses you provided show that they were using the gift wrongly, it is still a gift of the Holy Spirit and nothing less. Paul admonished them for using their gifts incorrectly but he never once said it was not from God, you are adding to the scripture in a way that is not even remotely accurate to the text. Paul mentions over and over that it is a gift from God and never says any different. Satan does have control over believers and does not have sway in a congregation full of believers, whether they practice their gifts correctly or not. To say otherwise is actually bordering on being against the rules as you are saying whole churches are doing the work of Satan, not only whole churches but many God fearing members here, myself included. I would tread very carefully as you are more than likely going to get reported at some point for saying that an accepted practice of a gift of the Holy Spirit is the work of the Devil.

Paul says that if there is no one there to interpret, then do not speak in tongues and if they do speak in tongues there are to be no more than 3 or 4.

Again I ask the question why would a group of people need to speak in tongues when they all speak the same language? God knows what is being said. They can all understand each other. Why try and complicate something so simple?

WesleyJohn · Mar 18, 2004

EdmundBlackadderTheThird · Mar 18, 2004

WJ: I can actually answer that.

1 Cor 14: 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two--or at the most three--should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.

But it should be noted that Paul never once says it is from the devil if his instructions are not followed.

WesleyJohn · Mar 18, 2004

EdmundBlackadderTheThird · Mar 18, 2004

I agree completely with you WJ, that is what I have been saying. Paul does say to talk to yourself and God in that verse. He also, thoughout that passage never even remotely indicates that the gift comes from anywhere but God. I am of the very strong opinion that Satan could not control a believer in this manner. It is quite offensive to see the gifts of the spirit called works of the Devil.

TasManOfGod · Mar 18, 2004

Pauls instructions here was to outline good manners for speaking in tongues in public - it was not a God given formula of how to speak in tongues"
That would be like saying "always use a knife and fork to eat food"
blessing
Tas

WesleyJohn · Mar 18, 2004

WesleyJohn · Mar 18, 2004

TasManOfGod · Mar 18, 2004

WesleyJohn said:
Can the gifts of the spirit be used in a disobedient or inappropriate manner?

Yes That is what Paul was adressing

EdmundBlackadderTheThird · Mar 18, 2004

WesleyJohn said:
Can the gifts of the spirit be used in a disobedient or inappropriate manner?

I believe they can, due to the way Paul talked about it to the church in Corinth. There are of course good arguments to the contrary as well. But the way Paul references the gifts throughout this chapter it seems that he did not think they were not using gifts from the Holy Spirity, but rather using them incorrectly. The whole of the verses in question is about order during the church service. He talks about how to use the gift of prophecy, women speaking in church, and other such things. The church in Corinth was in disorder but he did not admonish them even as strongly as he did the church in Galatia when that church taught a return to the law of Moses. His words to the church in Corinth are less rebuke and more instruction. I am of the firm opinion that if they had been doing something that was not from God that his letter to them would have contained language like his letter to the church in Galatia.

Symes · Mar 19, 2004

I believe they can, due to the way Paul talked about it to the church in Corinth. There are of course good arguments to the contrary as well. But the way Paul references the gifts throughout this chapter it seems that he did not think they were not using gifts from the Holy Spirity, but rather using them incorrectly.

If the gifts are being used incorrectly then who is behind the incorrect use of them?

It is the same as any gift, it can be perverted and used wrongly.

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