Tongues Then, Now & Why

[BrotherJJ]

Tongues: There purpose & why it's not the normative pattern today.

They were public verification, prophesied in advance & given at major New‑Covenant expansion moments.

Deut 14:2 God chooses Israel & for over 1400 yrs the Nation lives under Mosaic law. The book of Acts maps the transition from the old‑covenant Levitical priesthood (retired at Jesus' resurrection) to the priestly order of Melchizedek. A transition from law to grace. The law demanded works to receive blessings, grace freely supplies blessings based on faith in Jesus' finished, sacrificial, sin‑atoning work

In Acts 1:4 Jesus gives a promise & in Acts 1:8 He maps out a global evangelistic mission: beginning at Jerusalem (Temple Mount, Pentecost), then Judea, then Samaria & finally to the uttermost parts of the earth

TONGUES:
Tongues fulfilled two prophetic streams: Joel‑SIGNS > Spirit outpouring. Isaiah‑SIGNS > judgment sign to Israel & Covenant‑transition signs > verifying each new group entering the New Covenant.

Tongues were a SIGN, not a condition. Paul states the purpose plainly: "Tongues are for a sign to unbelievers." (1 Cor 14:22). "A sign to onlookers" - Not a sign to the speaker, NOT a sign of salvation & Not a condition for receiving the Spirit.

TONGUES EVENTS:
Acts 2 — Israel only. Purpose: launch of the New Covenant. Audience: Devout Jews from every nation. Result: Peter preaches, 3,000 saved. Meaning: God has begun the last days (Joel 2)

Acts 10 — Gentiles, Purpose: Prove Gentiles were accepted before water baptism, Audience: Jewish believers who doubted Gentile inclusion, Result: Peter commands water baptism after Spirit baptism, Meaning: God makes no distinction (Acts 11:17–18)

Acts 19 — Disciples of John, Purpose: Transition old‑covenant disciples into the gospel. Audience: 12 men who had never heard of the Spirit. Result: They receive the Spirit after hearing the gospel. Meaning: John's baptism is obsolete.

Acts 8 — Samaritans, (no tongues recorded, but Spirit given) Purpose: Unite Jews & Samaritans under apostolic authority. Audience: Apostles must witness it. Meaning: Samaritan are no longer a rival sect.

NOTICE THE PATTERN:
Jews only > Samaritans > Gentiles > John's disciples. Once all groups are included, ""the SIGN is no longer needed"".

Tongues appear only when a new covenant group is added. Not every at every baptism, not with every conversion.

Tongues were never universal in the book of Acts. Thousands were saved in Acts 2, 3k saved, Acts 4:4, 5k men saved, Acts 8:39, Ethiopian eunuch, Acts 9, Paul saved, Acts 11:21, "a great number believed, Acts 16, Lydia & Phil jailer saved, Acts 17, Thessalonians saved, Acts 18, Corinthians saved, Acts 19:18, many saved. NONE OF THESE MENTIONED INCLUE TONGUES.

This is where the "tongues = salvation" doctrine" fails. Paul asks: Do all speak with tongues? (1 Cor 12:30) Paul says: Gifts differ (1 Cor 12:4–6). The Spirit distributes as He wills (1 Cor 12:11). Not all have the same gifts (1 Cor 12:29–30)

WHY TONGUES THEN
OT Prophesy fulfilment. Tongues in Acts were a covenant‑transitional SIGN & Scripture itself explains what kind of SIGN they were.

Paul quotes Isaiah 28:11 (with stammering lips and another tongue) in 1 Cor 14:21 to show that tongues were a judgment sign to unbelieving Israel. God speaking to them through foreign languages because they rejected His word.

This matches Acts 2, where the gathered crowds included:
“Parthians, Medes, Elamites, dwellers in Mesopotamia, Judea, Cappadocia, Pontus, Asia, Phrygia, Pamphylia, Egypt, parts of Libya about Cyrene, strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians…” (Acts 2:9–11)

The disciples were speaking foreign human languages, exactly as Isaiah predicted. The people gathered heard them in their own native tongue.

Once the gospel reached Jews, Samaritans, Gentiles & Old‑covenant leftovers, there were no more groups left to validate & no further Isa 28, judgment SIGN was needed. The tongues SIGN had done its job.

WHY TONGUES NOW

Paul teaches that tongues today are optional spiritual gifts of edification

They are NOT a requirement or proof or salvation, NOT tied to receiving the Spirit, NOT tied to water baptism & NOT tied to covenant transitions (those are complete)

Tongues are permissible during a church assembly only when interpreter is present. When tongues & interpretation operate together, the result is equivalent to prophecy.

1 Corinthians 14:1–2 (Tongues Prayer Gift)
Paul describes the personal prayer-tongue as a GIFT exercised between the believer & God alone. It is for personal edification, not public communication. The one praying does not understand what he is saying, his spirit prays while the meaning remains hidden. He speaks mysteries in the Spirit & his understanding is unfruitful.

Paul even says he "speaks in tongues more than you all" (14:18), showing his heavy private use.

During an assembly gathering, speaking in tongues requires someone with the GIFT of interpretation. Together these spiritual GIFTS turn a private Spirit‑spoken mystery into an intelligible message that edifies the whole church.

Paul also ties gift‑operation to faith:
Rom 12:6 We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. If your gift is prophesying, then prophesy in accordance with your faith.

These gifts are available to any believer with the FAITH to access them.

You can find more on spiritual gifts here: Rom 12:3–8, 1 Cor chapters 12,13 & 14, Eph 4:7–16

 

[Richard T]

Not needed for salvation that seems clear. I agree with available to all. Many misconceptions preventing a large group. I do differ in the tongues for a church assembly. Those tongurs are from the gift various kinds of tongues that are not for all, where as personal tongues are. If i had to put a number on it tongues given in a church setting for interpretation are about the same as one having the gift of prophecy.

 

[NBB]

17 And the people who believe will be able to do these things as proof: They will use my name to force demons out of people. They will speak in languages they never learned. 18 If they pick up snakes or drink any poison, they will not be hurt. They will lay their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

These things happen today.

 

[BrotherJJ]

Mark 16:17–18 does NOT teach tongues as a universal salvation requirement.

Even if we take the longer ending of Mark at face value, notice what the text actually says: These signs will follow those who believe

It does not say:
Every believer will do all these signs, tongues are required for salvation, tongues are required to receive the Holy Spirit, tongues are tied to water baptism, tongues are tied to covenant transitions. It lists multiple signs, not one universal sign.

If their logic were consistent, they would also have to teach:
All believers must cast out demons, all believers must heal the sick, all believers must drink poison unharmed, all believers must handle snakes safely. But they don’t teach that, because they know it collapses instantly.

They selectively isolate one sign (tongues) & ignore the rest. That's not exegesis. That's cherry‑picking.

Mk 16:17–18 describes apostolic‑era signs, not universal commands. The early church did experience:
Exorcisms, miraculous healings, protection from harm (Paul & the viper in Acts 28), tongues in covenant‑transition moments. These were signs, not requirements. Exactly what you argued.

Mk 16 actually supports your argument about covenant‑transition signs. Why? Because every sign listed in Mark 16 appears in Acts only in connection with the apostolic mission, not as universal requirements for all believers.

Tongues appear:
Acts 2, Jews, Acts 8, Samaritans (Spirit given, no tongues recorded), Acts 10, Gentiles, Acts 19, John's disciples & then the pattern stops.

Just like:
Snake protection appears once (Paul), poison protection appears zero times, healing appears selectively, xorcism appears selectively, Mk 16 describes apostolic signs, not salvation conditions.

Mk 16:17–18 does NOT contradict Paul's teaching
Paul explicitly says:
Do all speak with tongues? No! (1 Cor 12:30). Gifts differ (1 Cor 12:4–6). The Spirit distributes as He wills (1 Cor 12:11), Not all have the same gifts (1 Cor 12:29–30). If Mk 16 meant "all believers must speak in tongues," Paul would be contradicting Jesus. But Paul is not contradicting Jesus, he is interpreting Jesus correctly.

 

[NBB]

Mark 16:17–18 does NOT teach tongues as a universal salvation requirement.

Even if we take the longer ending of Mark at face value, notice what the text actually says: These signs will follow those who believe

It does not say:
Every believer will do all these signs, tongues are required for salvation, tongues are required to receive the Holy Spirit, tongues are tied to water baptism, tongues are tied to covenant transitions. It lists multiple signs, not one universal sign.

If their logic were consistent, they would also have to teach:
All believers must cast out demons, all believers must heal the sick, all believers must drink poison unharmed, all believers must handle snakes safely. But they don’t teach that, because they know it collapses instantly.

They selectively isolate one sign (tongues) & ignore the rest. That's not exegesis. That's cherry‑picking.

Mk 16:17–18 describes apostolic‑era signs, not universal commands. The early church did experience:
Exorcisms, miraculous healings, protection from harm (Paul & the viper in Acts 28), tongues in covenant‑transition moments. These were signs, not requirements. Exactly what you argued.

Mk 16 actually supports your argument about covenant‑transition signs. Why? Because every sign listed in Mark 16 appears in Acts only in connection with the apostolic mission, not as universal requirements for all believers.

Tongues appear:
Acts 2, Jews, Acts 8, Samaritans (Spirit given, no tongues recorded), Acts 10, Gentiles, Acts 19, John's disciples & then the pattern stops.

Just like:
Snake protection appears once (Paul), poison protection appears zero times, healing appears selectively, xorcism appears selectively, Mk 16 describes apostolic signs, not salvation conditions.

Mk 16:17–18 does NOT contradict Paul's teaching
Paul explicitly says:
Do all speak with tongues? No! (1 Cor 12:30). Gifts differ (1 Cor 12:4–6). The Spirit distributes as He wills (1 Cor 12:11), Not all have the same gifts (1 Cor 12:29–30). If Mk 16 meant "all believers must speak in tongues," Paul would be contradicting Jesus. But Paul is not contradicting Jesus, he is interpreting Jesus correctly.

That passage does not mean every believer would do that, it just says believers would do that.
Casting out demons is more necessary today than in the time of Jesus, because the world is more wicked and with occult practices rampant,
do you think demons just vanished?? is worse now and people need help.

 

[ARBITER01]

These gifts are available to any believer with the FAITH to access them.

Incorrect.

The gifts and fruits are available when a born again Christian receives the filling of The Holy Spirit.

 

[BrotherJJ]

Incorrect.

The gifts and fruits are available when a born again Christian receives the filling of The Holy Spirit.

I’m not entirely sure what your reply is implying; could you clarify it for me.

 

[ARBITER01]

I’m not entirely sure what your reply is implying; could you clarify it for me.

You don't know what the filling of The Holy Spirit is?

 

[BrotherJJ]

You don't know what the filling of The Holy Spirit is?

Please explain your version.

 

[ARBITER01]

Please explain your version.

Like others over the years on here, you're approaching this with only book knowledge.

You're trying to tell people on here what you think is true, instead of what you know by experience to be true.

I've watched people who are deficient of The Holy Spirit, and are not looking for Him, only argue their points of view constantly. They are not needing help, so I've learned to move on to those who actually want help on here and fellowship, rather than have a constant argument all the time.

In other words, I already know what to expect from you, and I've got better things to do. Laters.