Tongues Shall Cease...

[blixation]

The cessation of tongues.


There is a massive amount of information which strongly supports the conclusion that the Biblical gift of tongues had ceased by the end of the first century AD

A. Tongues are never mentioned by Paul again after I Corinthians 14.

B. The remaining New Testament writers (Peter, James, John and Jude) never once refer to this gift.

C. Tongues are not mentioned as a fruit of the Spirit in Galatians 5:22.

D. Tongues are not in the list of qualifications for a pastor or deacon in I Timothy 3 or Titus 1.

E. There is no reference of tongues in Christ's final message to His church in Revelation 2 and 3.

F. Clement of Rome wrote to the Corinthians in AD 95 and discussed their spiritual heritage without once mentioning tongues.

G. Ignatius (martyred in A.D 116) wrote to the Ephesians (remember Acts 19) but did not refer to tongues.

H. In the three centuries which followed the apostolic period, there are only two references in the writings of the Church fathers concerning tongues.

I. Paul's language in I Corinthians 13 seems to provide the final proof. His statement in 13:8:

"Charity never faileth (EKPIPTO): but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail (KATARGEO): whether there be tongues, they shall cease (PAUOMAX); whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away (KATARGEO)."

The various Greek words used here are helpful.

EKPIPTO: Meaning, to fall, or sink. It is used in the New Testament to describe:

1. Falling stars (Mark 13:25)

2. Falling flower petals (James 1:11; I Peter 1:24)

3. A sinking boat (Acts 27:17)

Jesus uses this word to describe His Word which would not fall or sink!

"And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail" (Luke 16:17).

KATARGEO: Meaning, to render ineffective, to remove.

Literally, to work down. (kata, down; ergon, work)

It is used in the New Testament to describe the removal of:

1. The barrier between God and man through Christ (Ephesians 2:15)

2. Physical death (I Corinthians 15:26; II Timothy 1:10)

3. Satan (Hebrews 2:14)

4. The anti-christ (II Thessalonians 2:8)

Katargeo is in the future tense and the passive voice, meaning "It shall be removed by someone or something."

PAUOMAI: Meaning, to take one's rest. In the New Testament it is used to indicate the calm which follows some intense activity.

1. The calm after a severe storm on Galilee (Luke 8:24)

2. After a mighty prayer of the Savior (Luke 11:1)

3. Following a loud uproar in Jerusalem (Act., 20: 1)

4. At the finish of a powerful speech (Luke 5:4)

5. After a terrible beating (Acts 21:32)

6. After intense suffering (II Peter 4:1)

Pauomai is in the future tense and the middle voice, meaning, "It shall stop in and of itself."

QUESTION: When were the gifts of prophecy and knowledge rendered inoperative?

ANSWER: At the completion of the Canon (see Revelation 22:18-19).

QUESTION: How was this done?

ANSWER: It was done (passive voice) by God Himself. In Ephesians 2:20 the church is compared to a building which has foundation and superstructure. Christ, the New Testament apostles and prophets are the foundation. This had now already been laid. We are now in the superstructure (in which all believers are placed) period.

QUESTION: When did the gift of tongues take its rest?

ANSWER: At the completion of the Canon.

QUESTION: How was this done?

ANSWER: It was done (middle voice) of and by itself. Author Joe Dillow offers the following syllogisms: Major_premise: All direct revelations from God ceased with the completion of the Canon.

Minor premise: Tongues are a direct revelation from God.

Conclusion: Tongues ceased with the closing of the Canon. (Speaking in Tongues, p. 134)

Paul's statement in 13:10:

"But when that which is perfect..." the Greek for "perfect" is TELION, meaning wholeness, maturity, that which is complete. This refers to the completed Canon. (See Ephesians 4:13,14 and Hebrews 5:13,14 for similar usage.)

His statement in 13:13:

"...and now..."This is "nuni de" in the Greek, meaning "now in this present era." In other words, faith, hope and charity will remain permanent, while prophecy, tongues and knowledge will be phased out.

An analysis of modern day tongues

During the 20th century the practice of tongue speaking has moved out of its natural confines in the holiness groups and has infiltrated not only the major Protestant denominations, but the Roman Catholic church and Judaism also. In addition to these groups it has occurred among the Moslems, the Mormons, the Eskimos, and the pagans of Tibet and China. What factors have been responsible for this amazing phenomena? The following have doubtless contributed to the modern tongue movement.

A. A hunger for the new and the emotional in these impersonal and materialistic days (See II Timothy 4:3).

B. The total absence of Bible doctrine in liberal churches (see Ephesians 4:14 I Timothy 4:13, 16; II Timothy 3:5; 4:3-4).

C. The spiritual deadness in many fundamental churches (see Revelation 3:1).

D. A down-play of the dispensational Bible study approach of "rightly dividing the word of truth" (II Timothy 2:15).

E. Satanic and demonic activity (see I Timothy 4:1).

A scientific analysis has been conducted by linguistic experts on tongue speaking which was taped during various Charimatic meetings. Their laboratory tests reveal:

A. A high frequency of repetition in tongue speaking.

B. The similarity of tongue speech to the speaker's language background.

C. The excessive use of one or two vowels.

D. The absence of any language structure.

E. The markedly greater length of the interpretation as compared with the tongue utterance.

F. The inconsistency in interpretation of the same clauses or phrases. G. The predominantly King James style employed in interpretation.

cite: http://www.liberty.edu

 

[Andrew]

too late most of us here speaking in tongues already.

BTW: If you are not a charismatic, you can only post fellowship posts here.

 

[look]

[c]Hey blixation,

[/c]

 

[Chris Green]

Most of my church speak and sing in tongues. Several people also have the gift of interpreting.

How do you explain that?

 

[Bruce S]

OK. Then don't DO IT, and be a "partialist"

That is one who won't go for the ENTIRE promise, and the full aspect of what one could be if one were not too proud to look foolish.

 

[SonWorshipper]

QUESTION: When were the gifts of prophecy and knowledge rendered inoperative?

ANSWER: At the completion of the Canon (see Revelation 22:18-19).

Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:


So, what do you do with this scripture?

 

[Hands&Feet]

To my understanding, when the Perfect comes, the imperfect will disappear. Now we know in part and then we shall know fully. One can only conclude that the perfect here is Jesus and He hasn't returned yet. Once He gets here, we will know all things and thus there will be no more reason for tongues or prophecy. Until then we are left with an imperfect system that, in spite of our innacuracies, will suffice to keep us moving toward the Hope of our calling.

 

[TheScottsMen]

KJV
1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

I guess I was never informed all has been made perfect? Did Jesus arrive and I never heard about it? Man! Sure would have thought FoxNews or MSNBC would have recorded a man coming back in the clouds!

 

[Knee V]

SonWorshipper,

Peter tells us that that which was happening to them at Pentacost WAS the fulfillment of that prophecy. Unless you are going to change what the definition of is is.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

SonWorshipper,

Peter tells us that that which was happening to them at Pentacost WAS the fulfillment of that prophecy. Unless you are going to change what the definition of is is.

So once a prophesy is fulfilled *poof* you believe it does not exist anymore? In other words. . .when Jesus said He was going to send us a comforter, once that comforter showed up, we, as opposed to them, don't need Him anymore.

My thought is. . .if you don't operate in this gift then you have no clue what you are talking about. It's like one not knowing how to cook and then going into the kitchen and trying to instruct all those who do.

 

[simchat_torah]

Blixation,

I have some charismatic background in my my growing years, and I could easily dismiss all of what you wrote, though I'm not going to take the time to answer everything... just some of it.

However, before I begin, I want to make one thing clear... At one point I may have felt that the current expression of 'tounges' was true, today I am not so sure as I begin to fail to see the benefits more and more. I do believe that 'speaking in tounges' is a gift of the spirit, but does the expression taken that is used in the 'church' today correct? I simply don't know.


With that said, I will answer a few of your objections:

A. Tongues are never mentioned by Paul again after I Corinthians 14.

In the timeline of Sha'uls (pauls) writings, while I Corinthians may not have been the last book, it certainly wasn't the first to be written. As well, Tounges continues to be mentioned in Romans 8, Jude, etc. However, I don't think that the number of times a gift is mentioned from beginning to end has an impact on whether it is valid today.

Obviously, you wouldn't argue that healing is no longer applicable, would you?

As well, I Corinthians was written after the incidents of Acts 2 took place. So if Acts 2, as a point in history, is the sole owner of this particular gift... why does Sha'ul continue to give instruction to the believers on how to properly exercise this gift?

B. The remaining New Testament writers (Peter, James, John and Jude) never once refer to this gift.

Yes, they do. Acts 10:46, 19:6, and Rom. 8 clear examples.

C. Tongues are not mentioned as a fruit of the Spirit in Galatians 5:22.

Neither is Healing, Prophecy, Discernment of Spirits... etc... because these are GIFTS not fruit

D. Tongues are not in the list of qualifications for a pastor or deacon in I Timothy 3 or Titus 1.

I could easily list a good number of 'qualifications' that are lacking on this list, but this list is a list of character traits, not gifts that one must posess in order to fulfill the role of a decon.

E. There is no reference of tongues in Christ's final message to His church in Revelation 2 and 3.

Nor is healing mentioned. Nor is the "L-rds prayer" mentioned. Nor is baptism mentioned. Nor is....
I could go on and on.

Does that mean that each of the things he does not mention are automatically negated as legitimate?

C'mon. You're reaching with nearly all of these points... no, this goes beyond reaching as you toss aside critical thinking and common sense.

F. Clement of Rome wrote to the Corinthians in AD 95 and discussed their spiritual heritage without once mentioning tongues.

G. Ignatius (martyred in A.D 116) wrote to the Ephesians (remember Acts 19) but did not refer to tongues.

H. In the three centuries which followed the apostolic period, there are only two references in the writings of the Church fathers concerning tongues.

I could come up with a rather long list of those who did mention tongues and a long list of those who don't. I could also come up with a list of those who mention baptism, and those who don't, etc....

How do we form doctrine here? Do we look to a specific 'church father' to make a ruling for us? If the mention a particular doctrine, ok, check... we keep that one. But if they don't, then what? Toss it out the window? C'mon here...

Tongues is mentioned plenty of times. Not only that, perhaps Ignatious or Clement didn't mention tongues, but that also does not mean they didn't exercise it.

I could easily continue to tear this illogical argument to shreds.... We need to have a better way to form doctrine Blixation.

A lot of these 'proofs' are just downright silly.

I. Paul's language in I Corinthians 13 seems to provide the final proof. His statement in 13:8:

"Charity never faileth (EKPIPTO): but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail (KATARGEO): whether there be tongues, they shall cease (PAUOMAX); whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away (KATARGEO)."

Let's look at the passage in context, shall we?
I Cor. 13

1If I could speak in any language in heaven or on earth but didn't love others, I would only be making meaningless noise like a loud gong or a clanging cymbal.2If I had the gift of prophecy, and if I knew all the mysteries of the future and knew everything about everything, but didn't love others, what good would I be? And if I had the gift of faith so that I could speak to a mountain and make it move, without love I would be no good to anybody.3If I gave everything I have to the poor and even sacrificed my body, I could boast about it; but if I didn't love others, I would be of no value whatsoever.

....

9Now we know only a little, and even the gift of prophecy reveals little!10But when the end comes, these special gifts will all disappear.11It's like this: When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child does. But when I grew up, I put away childish things.12Now we see things imperfectly as in a poor mirror, but then we shall see him face to face. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God knows me now.

Let me ask a few questions:
1) Do we see G-d face to face now?
2) Has perfection come to this world?
3) Do we know everything?
4) Is faith no good to anybody?

Obviously the answer to all these questions is no. The writer was not inferring that perfection came upon the completion of the "NT", but rather perfection will come when Y'shua returns to this earth and we are changed... perfected. We will no longer need to have faith, because we will see him face to face. We will no longer need healing, our bodies will be perfected. We will no longer need to study, we will know all. That time has not yet come.

Your examination of the greek was fine and dandy, and yes... tongues will cease, but that time has not yet come.

QUESTION: When were the gifts of prophecy and knowledge rendered inoperative?

ANSWER: At the completion of the Canon (see Revelation 22:18-19).

this passage, has to do with not adding to the book of revelations. It has nothing to do with the list of gifts mentioned in I Corinthians... tongues, healing, discernment of spirits, etc.

QUESTION: When did the gift of tongues take its rest?

ANSWER: At the completion of the Canon.

QUESTION: How was this done?

ANSWER: It was done (middle voice) of and by itself. Author Joe Dillow offers the following syllogisms: Major_premise: All direct revelations from God ceased with the completion of the Canon.

Minor premise: Tongues are a direct revelation from God.

Conclusion: Tongues ceased with the closing of the Canon. (Speaking in Tongues, p. 134)

The foundation of this statement rests on the interpretation of I Corinthians 13. Some say that 'perfection' has come by the completing of the 'nt'. However, I have clearly demonstrated above that 'when perfection comes' is in reference to the returning of the messiah...
which then renders this Q & A completely pointless.



Now, as far as your assessment of "modern day" tongues, I will have to agree in part. Yes, I firmly believe it is abused. Yes, I have to strongly question, is the way it is used the way it was intended? Yes, I have to agree... is there something behind it all besides G-d? Yes I have to agree, it does not seem to be of benefit in its current useage.

With that said, your proofs of tongues ceasing is utterly lacking.

I didn't intend to make such a large post in this section, or in this thread, but it just seemed to be something that needed addressing in my opinion.

Shalom and shalom,
Yafet.

 

[simchat_torah]

Peter tells us that that which was happening to them at Pentacost WAS the fulfillment of that prophecy.

then might I ask why tongues seems to continue in Acts, as well as demanding instruction from paul to the believers on how to exercise tongues properly in I Corinthians?

hmmmm

 

[Anthony]

The cessation of tongues.



A. Tongues are never mentioned by Paul again after I Corinthians 14.

B. The remaining New Testament writers (Peter, James, John and Jude) never once refer to this gift.

C. Tongues are not mentioned as a fruit of the Spirit in Galatians 5:22.

D. Tongues are not in the list of qualifications for a pastor or deacon in I Timothy 3 or Titus 1.

E. There is no reference of tongues in Christ's final message to His church in Revelation 2 and 3.

F. Clement of Rome wrote to the Corinthians in AD 95 and discussed their spiritual heritage without once mentioning tongues.

G. Ignatius (martyred in A.D 116) wrote to the Ephesians (remember Acts 19) but did not refer to tongues.

H. In the three centuries which followed the apostolic period, there are only two references in the writings of the Church fathers concerning tongues.

I. Paul's language in I Corinthians 13 seems to provide the final proof. His statement in 13:8:

"Charity never faileth (EKPIPTO): but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail (KATARGEO): whether there be tongues, they shall cease (PAUOMAX); whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away (KATARGEO)."

Because something isn't mentioned that means it doesn't exist? Boy if you apply that logic to the rest of the Bible you could eliminate a lot of things.

Also the Gift of Tongues is a Gift not a fruit so it would make perfect sense for it not to be listed as a fruit.

Again tongues is a gift why would it have to be requirement; to becoming a pastor? Why this particular gift. Gifts do not make the Christian any better.

 

[water_ripple]

Well the gift of tounges are still fulfilled to this day. There are people on this earth who can speak a whole bunch of languages like it is their own native tounge. Languages that can take a lifetime to fully master. Some people have such command of foreign language that it is amazing. Being fully bi-lingual is an accomplishment, but for those who do evangelical or missionary work who have command over several languages and speak in the ancient...Nothing is beyond the power of God. God is not open and close..He is forever.

 

[explorerofmind]

A: So? The absence of evidence is not evedence.
B:So
C:Tongues is a gift of the spirit not a fruit.
D:It was never a qualification for anything.
E: So?
F:It's not very common
G:So?
H:So?
Pauomai: Yes toungues takes a rest. People are't constantly stuck in Holly Speach Mode. It doesn't mean that the gift ceases.

 

[Hezmasaveyour]

A.

Tongues are never mentioned by Paul again after I Corinthians 14.

Well, that does not necessarily mean that tounges had ceased.If I never get back on this board again, does that mean that I am dead ? No.

I believe that most of the reason that ppl believe that tounges have ceased is becasue of misinterpretation of scripture.

 

[simchat_torah]

The biggest argument that silences most of the points made in the first post is: The absence of evidence is not evedence.

 

[Mounts]

The gifts of tounges and other signs is a hard thing for me to discern. I certainly won't deny it, for it is in the Bible; but I do have a bone to pick with some of the professing churches that claim to perform these signs from God.

1. The utmost important point is-- the church should focus more on doctrine rather than signs. False doctrine floods the church, but the church claims to be a true church by the signs it performs. This is a huge red flag to me of it's ligentamency.
2. I wonder why so many people ignore this direct commandment: "But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God" (1 Cor. 14:28). Many people will shout out their tounge sayings for the whole church to hear, but it doesn't do any edification... it only causes confusion which refutes the apparent purpose of tounges in the first place. For someone to directly ignore this command (it happens all the time) is another huge red flag to me that it may not be ligenament.
3. This is another REALLY BIG point: From what I've seen, the people whom professed to have spoken in tounge through the Spirit do not show the fruits of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22)! Jesus explains very clearly many times that fruits of the Spirit will be evident of one with the Spirit (Mt. 7:17,18; 12:33), but the ones that profess to have this gift manifest the fruits of the flesh more clearly than the fruits of the Spirit. This is a blood-stained red flag with a siren of the ligenmency of that person's claims to tounges.

I also have a huge bone to pick with prophets of today. I have heard so many directly preach heresy--I'm talking about a DIRECT DENIEL of a clear-cut Scriptural message. He said, "Just because I prophecy something, doesn't mean it will 100% come to pass. It is up to man to fullfil it." Not only that, but he said, "Anyone can become a prophet. All he has to do is listen to the wind and other signs." OK, I hope God has given you guys enough discreation to discern this guys claim as a prophet! First off, 1) He claimed his may not come to pass. 2) He claimed that anyone can become a prophet. 3) He claimed that his prophecies weren't God's audable voice as it is in Scripture, but that it is winds and bird's chirpping--basically however he wanted to interpret the sounds he heard: it's his own delusive dream and not from God.

If God says something is going to happen, it is going to happen to whether man wants to fulfill it or not. Everyone CANNOT just be a prophet, it is a GIFT given by the Holy Spirit to whom GOD chooses to give. And God speaks in an aduable voice, not by winds and foggy interpretations. If you don't believe that, you need to sit down and double or triple your Bible study time in the OT. I believe the last section of Revelations clearly states that God is done speaking revealation, therefore the prophet age is no more. Today, it is nothing but people speaking dreams simply because many of the popular prophets of today prophecies have failed. You don't believe me? Go research it yourself. Benny Henn was caught writing out scripts for people to play for his prophecies, and many others were caught too. It was all just an act.

Let us never forget this warning:

"Even him, whose coming is afater the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders." (2 Thess. 2:9)

 

[hal]

I have never understood why there are those who are so opposed to the gifts of the Holy Spirit being still available.
I might speculate that they do now want to surrender to the Holy Spirit and are trying to justify themselves.
Do I hear Satan claping there stand?

 

[Sierva_de_Dios]

Blix, so are you saying that God is not the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow? Is God limited in power? Are you saying that God does not have the same power that he did on, for example, the day of pentecost, where through Peter's message and through the infiltration of the Holy Spirit 3000 were saved?
I don't believe it's a matter of speaking in tongues or not...(i.e. I Cor. 12:30-31~Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.)
I believe it's a matter of receiving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. The purpose of the Baptism with the Spirit is power to be an authentic witness for Christ. Acts 1:8~But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.
I guess the question is this: Is there a correlation between speaking in tongues and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit? If so, is the gift of speaking in tongues supposed to be the manifest or the evidence of the baptism?
I've recently done some research, and I came up with this:
There are 5 separate instances of the Baptism of the Spirit found in Acts:
(1) Pentecost (1:4-5;2:1-4)
-Here the disciples were already believers and baptized in water. In addition, there is evidence of the gift of speaking in tongues as they were filled with the Holy Spirit.
(2) the Samaritans (8:4-8, 12,14-17)
-Here the Samaritans "heeded the things spoken by Philip," "believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God," "were baptized," and then, in verses 16 and 17, the Spirit of God "had fallen upon none of them. Then they laid hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit." Notice that there was no speaking in tongues involved.
(3) Saul (9:10-18)
-Here Saul/Paul has already been converted, yet not baptized in water. God sent Ananias to him so "that you (Saul) may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit. Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized." Notice again that there is no mention of speaking in tongues; however, according to I Cor.14:18~I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all.
(4) Cornelius and his loved ones (10:24, 43-48)
-Here God surprized the Jews as "the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God."
(5) Ephesian Disciples (19:1-7, 12)
-Here the disciples were believers and baptized in water, and yet they had never even heard of the Holy Spirit. (bizarre) But, "when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied." Also, please note that this happened about 23 years after Pentecost.

So, for those of you who are still with me (smile), my point is that God IS the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. God is not bound by our patterns and limitations. There is no step or formula to be saved, to be a christian, or to be baptized with the Holy Spirit. And, finally (wink), the baptism with the Spirit is a gift that needs to be asked for and received by faith (I John 5:14-15).
God bless everyone!