Tongues...probably everyone has already discussed this, but...

I have a very good friend who is a strong Christian and very godly person. However, they seem to go along with the tongues issue. I have been doing my own study on the topic...from the Bible. It seems many people believe tongues without understanding it. What are your opinions? I think that it is a gift from God, which means that not every believer will have it. Also, the tongues of the Bible is not the tongues that is practiced today...which is where I think people get confused.

I think there is a biblical distinction between speaking in tongues and praying in tongues.The first if done infront of the assembly of believers would need a interpreter so the whole body can be edified .The second is my personal prayer language ,so I can be edified.
(1 Chorinthians 14:12-19)

But where does it say that tongues is supposed to be used for self-edification? That's what I think is not really correct according to Scripture. The reason the gift of tongues was used was as a sign to unbelievers. Also, if it is disorderly, where you sort of "babble" that is what Paul was saying was incorrect, because that is what non-Believers were doing. Also, if it is not understandable, how can one interpret it?

There are actually 3 kinds of tongues.

One where you can speak in a language you don't know but to people that can understand that language.
Example: I have a friend who is a pastor - went to Peru to speak - had an interpreter - the interpreter sat down and my friend continued the sermon - asking why the interpreter sat down - the interpreter said you were speaking perfect Peruian language and my friend did not even know it.

There is the kind of tongue that the Holy Spirit brings to a congregation or meeting - this one must be interpreted - if someone stands up and speaks in a tongue and there is not an interpreter - this is not from God. God will always have an interpreter in this type of tongue, or it is not of God.

There is your prayer language that is between you and God - the Bible tells us we know not how to pray but our Spiritman does -this one does not need an interpreter, it is between you and God.

Here is a great study I listened to on the Holy Spirit and tongues:


http://ccof.calvarychapel.com/blb/index.html

Proverbs3 said:

But where does it say that tongues is supposed to be used for self-edification? That's what I think is not really correct according to Scripture. The reason the gift of tongues was used was as a sign to unbelievers. Also, if it is disorderly, where you sort of "babble" that is what Paul was saying was incorrect, because that is what non-Believers were doing. Also, if it is not understandable, how can one interpret it?

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Jude 20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit

I Cor 14:4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself

Shawners said:

I think there is a biblical distinction between speaking in tongues and praying in tongues.The first if done infront of the assembly of believers would need a interpreter so the whole body can be edified .The second is my personal prayer language ,so I can be edified.
(1 Chorinthians 14:12-19)

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I think that's a false distinction. I don't see it in scripture. Paul states he who speaks in an unknown tongue is speaking to God. Isn't that prayer?

1 Chorinthians 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

1 Chorinthians 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues , except he interpret , that the church may recieve edifing.

1 Chorinthians 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue , my spirit prayeth , but my understanding is unfruitful.

1 Chorinthians 14:15 What is it then ? I will pray with the spirit, and will pray with the understanding also:
I will sing with the spirit , and sing with the understanding also.
........In Christ , Shawners

Proverbs3 said:

I have a very good friend who is a strong Christian and very godly person. However, they seem to go along with the tongues issue. I have been doing my own study on the topic...from the Bible. It seems many people believe tongues without understanding it. What are your opinions? I think that it is a gift from God, which means that not every believer will have it. Also, the tongues of the Bible is not the tongues that is practiced today...which is where I think people get confused.

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It's a command in the Word (see my previous reference to Jude). Praying in the Holy Spirit is praying in tongues (1 Co 14). It would be a little bit unfair to command something we can't do.

What is your basis for saying Christians who speak in tongues today are not exercising what the Bible calls speaking in tongues?

When speaking to the church in tongues with a interepter , tongues are elevated to the level of prophesy for edification of the whole church.As a AOG'r , you should be familar with praying in tongues during worship , which is different than addressing the church in tongues, or during your private prayer time.
.............................................God bless in Jesus's name , Shawners
I mean no disrespect , as my first church I belonged to was a AOG church.

Another reference to the distinction I believe would be

1 Chorinthians 14:6 Now , brethren , if I come unto you speaking with tongues , what shall I profit you , except I shall speak to you either by revelation or by
prophesying ,or by doctrine ?................................

continue to 1 Chorinthians 14:9
( it takes me to much time to type it all )...... So like wise ye , except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood , how shall it be known what is spoken ?

..than in the same chapter , verse 18 ...... I thank God I speak in tongues more than you all:

sounds like Paul is contradicting himself , unless he's referring to praying in the spirit ( refering to verse 18 )

.............God bless in Jesus , Shawners

Proverbs3 said:

But where does it say that tongues is supposed to be used for self-edification? That's what I think is not really correct according to Scripture. The reason the gift of tongues was used was as a sign to unbelievers. Also, if it is disorderly, where you sort of "babble" that is what Paul was saying was incorrect, because that is what non-Believers were doing. Also, if it is not understandable, how can one interpret it?

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This is what Paul taught us to do, Building yourself up in your most holy faith praying in the Holy Ghost, is praying in tongues.

Hi there

How are you?

Proverbs3 said:

I have a very good friend who is a strong Christian and very godly person. However, they seem to go along with the tongues issue.
.

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Good for them

Proverbs3 said:

I have been doing my own study on the topic...from the Bible. It seems many people believe tongues without understanding it. What are your opinions? I think that it is a gift from God, which means that not every believer will have it.
.

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God cannot show favoritism in his giving, Rm 2:11.

Acts 2:

4All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

Proverbs3 said:

Also, the tongues of the Bible is not the tongues that is practiced today...which is where I think people get confused.

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Do you have scriptures that show where there is a second gift of tongues In what way are tongues different today?

God Bless You

Shawners said:

When speaking to the church in tongues with a interepter , tongues are elevated to the level of prophesy for edification of the whole church.As a AOG'r , you should be familar with praying in tongues during worship , which is different than addressing the church in tongues, or during your private prayer time.
.............................................God bless in Jesus's name , Shawners
I mean no disrespect , as my first church I belonged to was a AOG church.

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Yeah, I think like many Pentecostals I've always been interested in spiritual things, so I've spent a lot of time looking into the writings of Harold Horton, Howard Carter, and others. It made me spend a lot of time in the sections of scripture relating to it.

I see the Bible telling us there are different operations of the spiritual gifts, and I've experienced some interesting things involving tongues in my time in the Lord. Pentecostals, especially the older ones, really talk about it in terms like "prayer language" to make distinctions like you're describing. I really don't see it in the Bible. All I see is speaking in other tongues, and it has different operations. But it's all just speaking in tongues, with some variation in the anointing. The strongest anointing that ever came expressing itself in tongues in my life came when I was alone, and the consummation of it manifested in a dream. It was a different operation.

Think about it. Paul tells us unless there's an interpreter, you don't speak out to the assembly. The tongues don't change depending on who's there, only the way you operate in it.

As far as your statement about the elevation of tongues, I think you are referring to this scripture:
1 Co 14:5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; 1for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.

Look carefully, and you'll see there is nothing here saying tongues is elevated or changed at all. It really says he who speaks in tongues is not as great (in the sense of being valuable to the church) as he who prophesies, unless he interprets. The interpretation is what is valuable to the church. Interpretation has to come following tongues, so the tongues has a part, but the tongues never get elevated in importance, they just have no value to the church by themselves. It's the interpretation of tongues that has value similar to prophecy, only because it edifies the church. Tongues alone only edifies the one speaking in tongues. Paul spoke in tongues more than all those Corinthians, he just wasn't doing it in church. He was building himself up on his most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, giving praise well, speaking mysteries, etc.

I'm a bit of a stickler about such things. I'm slow to adopt churchspeak, no matter how widely used it is, and hardheaded to boot. I still understand what people are getting at, but I won't think that way unless I can see it in the Word. It's really a minor point, but one that takes a lot of effort for me to avoid speaking on.

No offense here, brother. We're just discussing the Word.

Shawners said:

Another reference to the distinction I believe would be

1 Chorinthians 14:6 Now , brethren , if I come unto you speaking with tongues , what shall I profit you , except I shall speak to you either by revelation or by
prophesying ,or by doctrine ?................................

continue to 1 Chorinthians 14:9
( it takes me to much time to type it all )...... So like wise ye , except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood , how shall it be known what is spoken ?

..than in the same chapter , verse 18 ...... I thank God I speak in tongues more than you all:

sounds like Paul is contradicting himself , unless he's referring to praying in the spirit ( refering to verse 18 )

.............God bless in Jesus , Shawners

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So I'm getting this from you:

speaking in tongues: speaking in church in conjunction with interpretation of tongues that the church may be edified

praying in tongues: praying in the Spirit in personal devotion.

Am I hearing you correctly?

It sounds like the same thing to me. Speaking in tongues should be prayer in tongue. It all involves worship. If you pray out loud in tongues is that different than exhorting in the spirit to the congregation?
Maybe praying doesn't need interpretation?

JEBrady,
Even though I believe in a distinction for the different applications, your right , it is the same gift opperating. I think we are on the same track. Amen brother.
You did a good job in your post , your a good communicator , and delivered it in a right spirit. I look forward to reading some of your other post.
God bless my friend , In the name of Jesus.
................................Shawners

.......also I ment elevated in worth to the church , for edification...once again I think we are in agreement , you just said it better than me ...........God bless, ........................................Shawners

Shawners said:

.......also I ment elevated in worth to the church , for edification...once again I think we are in agreement , you just said it better than me ...........God bless, ........................................Shawners

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isn't it a little late for trying to get a concensus on things that nobody ever agreed upon in the first place? If ever two people ever agreed on this forum I would call it a great day for that would be the day that egotism left and fairplay began.


ya, anythings possible, holo

Over the years, I have come to conclude that the subject of speaking in tongues, as taught in churches, continues to be deliberately misapplied and misunderstood for all wrong purposes.

Some have created from their understanding of the subject a unique and comfortable "spiritual" tradition different from what Paul preached.

They assume wrongly that speaking in tongues is the spiritual thermometer that measures closeness or relationship with the Spirit. To them, it is a case of "I have arrived in the Spirit and you must take my word for it". Ofcourse, this is the approach of carnal minded children. Let us mature in the things of God.

Purposes of the Spiritual language

Prophet Zephaniah speaks of a time to come when God will gather all nations for the tribulation and devour the earth with fire of His jealousy (Zeph. 3:8).

Then, He will turn to the people (His people) "a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve Him with one consent." - Zeph. 3:9

Therefore, we see two clear purposes of the pure language:

1. To call upon the name of the LORD
2. To serve Him with one consent (mind... when in company of other believers).

All languages now spoken on earth are derivatives of this pure language. The pure language was scattered at the Tower of Babel. It will be restored after the Ending... because all things pertaining to the earth will have been destroyed.

But faith that promises all good things of God, even eternal things yet to come, NOW promises that language. A token of the Spirit that comes with faith makes it possible for some to speak that pure language that is a condensation of all languages. That is why it is said the Spirit gives utterance as He desires.

When the language is spoken, the Spirit is able to make men understand their own unique languages scattered from (but within) that pure language. This is what happend as recorded in Acts 2:4-13.

As the 120 disciples received the Spirit, He (the Spirit) spoke in the pure language through the disciples as follows:

1. The disciples spoke in languages of Galilee and understood the Spirit's pure language in their own Galilaeans language;
2. Every other foreigner heared (spiritual understanding is the equivalent to physical hearing) in his own language.

When the Spirit spoke, it was for all present to call upon the name of the LORD and to be of one mind. We read that disciples where in one accord at that Upper Room.

One thing is clear: tradition of men that babbles in the name of praying in the Spirit is just what it is... a tradition of men. No man knows the pure language by heart, let alone is fluent in it.

But in the faith of God, we are promised that language in the Eternal life. If by faith, then the token Spirit (the only part of faith that manifests... all other good things are promised) manifests a token part of the gift of that pure language.

Therefore, the Spirit speaks through men with His own pure language that renders as the language of the man (the vessel) or in languages of others present.

If I consciously decide to pray to God, it is not the Spirit praying but my spirit in me. My spirit speaks the language I speak and understand.

If the Spirit prays to God on my behalf, it is the Spirit praying and He prays with the pure language. I cannot utter for the Spirit what He wants to say... yet, He will speak in a way that profits me.

If a man is praying WITH the Spirit (by himself alone and with no other man in site), why would the Spirit's word be rendered in a way the man cannot understand? There is absolutely no way or reason the Spirit will manifest so that the man does not profit... for, after all, He is given to profit men.

That is why Paul teaches that if he prays in tongues, he will pray with understanding (spiritual hearing).

Again, Apostle Paul spoke about another general purpose for which the Spirit (and all things of the Spirit) is given in 1 Cor. 12:7:
So, your speaking in tongues are for these specific purposes or it is a wasted effort:

1. To call upon the name of the LORD
2. To serve Him (in fellowship with other brethren) in one mind.
3. To profit whosoever sees or experiences tongues (including one who speaks) as the manifestation of the Spirit.

If I say I speak in tongues by the Spirit of God and above purposes are not met, then it is not the Spirit of God speaking through me.

Additionally, if I know what constitutes my spirit, I'll know to measure profitability of all spiritual things. Understanding to the spiritual man is what hearing is to the physical man: In same way the hearing impaired physical man does not profit from a speech he cannot hear, the understanding impaired spiritual man does not profit from a speech he cannot understand.