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Tongues as Private Prayer Language

Gregory Thompson

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I find that since Paul had to instruct the Corinthians to "forbid not the speaking in tongues" - this sentiment of skepticism is probably as old as the church. If you don't have the gift, it will seem as non-sense.
 
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Chris35

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I received tounges, outside of a church, we had a preacher door knocking who had led me to Jesus.

From my own testimony, i knew very little about tounges, however after baptism, the preacher prayed over me for the holy spirit. As he was praying he told me to start talking.

I was confused as to what to say in that situation after all he was praying so i asked him what should i talk about, he said anything, so i started talking about my day.

I started talking normally, and soon after i felt the holy spirit fill me, i remember it clearly, my mind would come up with a normal sentance to say, and i opened up my mouth to say it, but as i tried to say the sentance, the words that come out of my mouth were gibberish, not the words I was trying to say at all.

I wasnt trying to talk in tounges, i wasnt trying to force the words out as tounges, just the words that were coming out of my mouth, were not the ones i was trying to say, i couldnt talk normal words. It lasted about 1 minute.

Scripture can be interrupted both ways, those who have expereinced can see what Paul was talking about, and those who havent can see that it might not be true, and that people only spoke in other languages.

I am a Christian, i am a brother in christ, and shall not bear false witness, what i said is true, that is what happened, the problem is that, there is a mountain of testimony from people that have experienced tounges, who will always defend it because it is truth.

Your going to have to search deep inside yourself, and figure out why you have to prove or disprove it in the first place, because all it will do is cause division.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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That reminds me of when I started believing, I didn't really have a church - a school yard friend told me about Jesus. I didn't know about tongues or have anything to copy cat, but a couple years later I started talking to God in a language within me, and I remember having this confidence of being protected during those times.

Later on I read about things like that in the bible after being exposed to the "just tongue, don't translate" application. And decided to follow the teaching highlighted by remembrance from the Holy Spirit which was to pray to translate.

It definitely has built me up over the years.
 
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Phil W

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There is no reason to think he was referring to a foreign language either.

It is written..."Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God." (Rom 8:26-27)
If the Spirit is making intercession for the saints in a language which can't be understood, doesn't that eliminate the possibility that it is in a language of the modern time and era?

I didn't learn "it" from men, but instead, was given the gift by God.

If the gift of tongues doesn't exist, why is it a sign for unbelievers?
 
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Chris35

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And decided to follow the teaching highlighted by remembrance from the Holy Spirit which was to pray to translate.

Thats exactly right.

anyone who speaks in a tongue a does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.

7Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the pipe or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes?8Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle?

9So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air.

10Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. 11If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and the speaker is a foreigner to me.

12So it is with you. Since you are eager for gifts of the Spirit, try to excel in those that build up the church.

13For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say.
 
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Richard T

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I never took you as being combative. You sound quite earnest and respectful. Speaking in tongues back and forth is like a conversation between two people. Only those two would be involved so I do not rule out this possibility. Some might consider this flaky, but I wanted to share my thoughts openly, to perhaps inspire you to think outside of the box. I might not seem disciplined, but there are lines to be drawn between what is flesh and what is by the spirit or Spirit. I have been in all kinds of charismatic meetings, from Hagin and Oral Roberts to the Vineyard church in Toronto. You are doing well to stick with what you know and believe, and put anything else on a shelf until you can work through any new conclusions. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts.
 
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Dave L

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The tongue speakers in the bible knew what they were saying. Paul said they were edified in doing it. And he said understanding is the basis for edification.
 
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SPF

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Hi John, thanks for the response. I appreciate it. The problem here is that you added the word "unknown", kind of like how the JWs add words into Scripture that aren't there to make it say what they want to. We could easily replace the word "unknown" with "foreign" and the passage would read just as smoothly and properly.

It's simply not enough to add the word "unknown" and assume it's true. The only example we have to work from are the Pentecost events of Acts, and in those instances, it's actually clear that the speaking in tongues was foreign languages. So how do you make the jump from that to a non-sensical, syllable driven, unintelligible language?

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
This is actually the one verse that originally gave me pause. But...

For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue - This verse is designed to show that the faculty of speaking intelligibly, and to the edification of the church, is of more value than the power of speaking a foreign language. The reason is, that however valuable may be the endowment in itself, and however important the truth which he may utter, yet it is as if he spoke to God only. No one could understand him.

Speaketh not unto men - Does not speak so that people can understand him. His address is really not made to people, that is, to the church. He might have this faculty without being able to speak to the edification of the church. It is possible that the power of speaking foreign languages and of prophesying were sometimes united in the same person; but it is evident that the apostle speaks of them as different endowments, and they probably were found usually in different individuals.

But unto God - It is as if he spoke to God. No one could understand him but God. This must evidently refer to the addresses “in the church,” when Christians only were present, or when those only were present who spoke the same language, and who were unacquainted with foreign tongues. Paul says that “there” that faculty would be valueless compared with the power of speaking in a manner that should edify the church. He did not undervalue the power of speaking foreign languages when foreigners were present, or when they went to preach to foreigners; see 14:22. It was only when it was needless, when all present spoke one language, that he speaks of it as of comparatively little value.

For no man understandeth him - That is, no man in the church, since they all spoke the same language, and that language was different from what was spoken by him who was endowed with the gift of tongues. As God only could know the import of what he said, it would be lost upon the church, and would be useless.

Howbeit in the Spirit - Although, by the aid of the Spirit, he should, in fact, deliver the most important and sublime truths. This would doubtless be the case, that those who were thus endowed would deliver most important truths, but they would be “lost” upon those who heard them, because they could not understand them. The phrase “in the Spirit,” evidently means “by the Holy Spirit,” that is, by his aid and influence. Though he should be “really” under the influence of the Holy Spirit, and though the important truth which he delivers should be imparted by his aid, yet all would be valueless unless it were understood by the church.

He speaketh mysteries - The word here seems to be synonymous with sublime and elevated truth; truth that was not before known, and that might be of the utmost importance.


mark 16v17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Again, this lines up with what did happen at Pentecost and following, where speaking with new tongues was foreign languages.

You haven't established a jump from foreign languages to what we see practiced today.
 
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SPF

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In applying the highlighted verses, I find a quality similar to the original auto-translate wonder post-pentecost where the Holy Spirit would auto-translate what was uttered into a language everyone could understand in their own language or tongue.
The problem I have with this is that Acts is clear that there wasn't any sort of "auto-translate" going on.

Acts 2:7 tells us that all the men present heard Apostles speaking in their native languages. Verses 9,10,11 give us some of the different languages that were being spoken by the Apostles. Verse 13 shows that some people were totally confused by the Apostles speaking different languages and thought they were drunk.

There was no auto-translate. The miracle was a miracle of speaking, not a miracle of hearing. Meaning, the Spirit gave to some Apostles the ability to speak Arabic, others spoke Persian, others spoke Latin, etc... Yet, each person present was able to hear at least one Apostle speaking their native language.

I'm not for a moment doubting the gift of speaking and praying in tongues. What I'm searching for is a way to establish, Biblically, that speaking/praying in tongues is ever shown to be something other than a foreign language - and I have yet to make that connection.
 
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SPF

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I guess I'm trying to be careful to be both honest and loyal to what Scripture teaches, while at the same time not wanting to rule out the honest working of the Holy Spirit. The last thing I want to do is make some sort of declarative statement that tongues as a private prayer language is false and be wrong. That wouldn't look good for me when I stand before God and find out I was wrong and actually hindered the faith of others as a result.

The bottom line is that God can do what He wants, and reach people the way He wants. I do believe though that part of being immutable in character is that He doesn't change. Or put in this specific context, He won't contradict Scripture. But if Scripture is mum on something, or vague on something, who am I to say it's not from God?

It's interesting because the AOG members I go to church with obviously see tongues as a private prayer language all over the writings of Paul. I honestly feel like they're biased and letting their experience drive their interpretation. I want an honest interpretation, more exegetical as opposed to isegetical. And with that point of view, I'm struggling to see a clear jump from foreign languages to private, non-sensical (to others) languages.
 
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SPF

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There is no reason to think he was referring to a foreign language either.
Except there is reason to think that because the foundational example we have from the Pentecost experiences of Acts is foreign languages. So what I'm looking for is where this jump from known, foreign languages to private, non-sensical*, non-existent languages takes place.

*I'm not using "non-sensical" flippantly or condescendingly (can be tough to discern tone online), but literally.

Problem of course is that "cannot be uttered" would rule out speaking in tongues as those are uttered...

If the gift of tongues doesn't exist, why is it a sign for unbelievers?
I never said the gift of tongues doesn't exist. I've said all along that it does exist and is a real gift. It's a sign for unbelievers because hearing someone speak in your native tongue who doesn't is well, quite a sign.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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I suppose the event can be interpreted a number of different ways, but if people of one culture are speaking a message, and each person in a crowd of 3000 heard it in their own native language - this would lend to the Holy Spirit translating and thus reversing the curse of babel. . . at least for a moment.

The pentecost event was a one-off wonder to speak the good news to other cultures who had not yet received it.

The gift of tongues referred to in 1st Corinthians is different.
 
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SPF

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Sure, but there's only one correct one, and the idea that the miracle was a gift of hearing and not of speaking seems to contradict what is recorded.

v.4 - And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.

It literally says that the began to speak with other tongues (foreign languages), as the Spirit gave them. This alone essentially rules out the idea of the miracle being a miracle of hearing. This is further supported by the very fact that in verse 13 men accuse them of being drunk.

If the miracle was a miracle of hearing, then there would be no explanation for people being confused in verse 12, and then others saying they were drunk in verse 13. It was only because of the fact that they were speaking so many different known languages.


The gift of tongues referred to in 1st Corinthians is different.
It's easy to make statements like this. It's another thing altogether to actually support statements like this.
 
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johnlxyz

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I liked the last part of Richard T’s post:

8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Lets be honest, where does one see the most healings, deliverances and salvations in the church today? Mostly in those (including catholics) who speak in tongues and exercise the gifts. Just as you would expect from scriptures. I am not boasting about this, nor am I suggesting that all groups who do this are great followers of Christ. It is where the power is though.
(end of excerpt)

When Jesus gave the commandment to his disciples to be “witnesses unto [Him] both in Jerusalem…and unto the uttermost part of the earth,” – Jesus also told them (paraphrased) that they would receive power from on high as they prayed and tarried in Jerusalem. Luke 24:46-49

46) And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47) And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48) And ye are witnesses of these things.
49) And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

That’s why I agree with Richard T when he said:
where does one see the most healings, deliverances and salvations in the church today? Mostly in those (including catholics) who speak in tongues and exercise the gifts. Just as you would expect from scriptures.

The power of the Holy Spirit of God is what made those humble disciples able to proclaim the christian gospel, which eventually spread to the whole world. I personally do not speak in tongues, but I believe it’s one of the gifts of the HS. What christians need to careful of – is that the gifts can be counterfeited by darkside forces, which is why the gift of discernment is very important.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Thanks for all your research. Tongues are entrenched in several denominations and every argument has been used to promote as well as discourage its use. Ultimately, it is God who hears the cries of His people. Some cry with their understanding and some cry with no understanding. The question is, what does God understand? The heart. No language involved in that. Be blessed and stay healthy!
 
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Junia

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I t isn't Biblical. i don't think there is anything wrong with it though. i feel it edifies me when i pray in tongues. Because actually i very often cannot find any words when i need to pray. i rstruggle with finding the words. so tonues helps me say what my heart wants to say
 
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Junia

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exactly! when i pray it is like my heart is groaning but i am not good enough with words to pray it properly
 
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Junia

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Except you don't actually know that since you don't understand what you're even saying.

well, no, but if it is nothing at all, God knows the intent of my heart and i feel like i have prayed. it prob is just gibberish but am sure God would rather i pray than not.
 
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