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Tongues and the language you speak

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zhilan

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Hello. I don't mean this in any way to be offensive, I am just wanting to ask this not debate, so please don't take it that way. I'd like to hear your answers.

So here's my question. I have read that when linguist have studied people speakign in tongues they found that the tongues language is made of sounds from the language of a speaker. So an English speaker speaking in tongues will make sounds that are exotic, but familiar sounds to the English language but will not tend to make sounds that are not found in the English language (such as the clicking sounds made in certain African languages) meanwhile speakers of other languages will do the same, making sounds exotic but yet familiar to their language (so someone speaking the clicking language is likely to use those sounds but not the words).

Do you know why this is? Would this be a way God works (ie giving people a language in their own sounds) or is the tongues language the same language for everone?

Thanks!
 

heron

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I love this question. Sometimes I try to figure out what mine sounds like. Usually, it sounds kind of eastern European. During specific intercession, I get huge variations like you describe...Chinese-like, Zulu-like, Italian.

The logic to it isn't quite clear--the variation happens more in private than in public, so no one else has to hear it--but it usually feels like I'm praying for a specific situation and person.

Sometimes the change feels like it's related to a certain neighborhood I'm driving through, or a prayer nudging. It can come with an impression that I need to sing in a certain style, as part of prayer for a group of people.

The language isn't the same across the board, but I've heard some similar phrases. And it develops over time, so a newbie will have a simpler vocabulary...more likely, as you say, to be safely close to the native tongue.

I'd be interested to hear more people talk about this!
 
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talitha

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I have had much the same kinds of experiences as heron in this area, but my theories about all of this are different. And I do recognize that they are theories, as I have no revelation from God about it..... I believe that speaking in tongues is a spiritual phenomenon, and that it has less to do with what the "language" sounds like than it does with what's going on in the spirit realm.

Whatever the case, I will never forget the time when I was at a meeting, and when a woman received her prayer language for the first time, it sounded very Oriental - possibly like some Chinese dialect. This was a blonde-haired, blue-eyed woman who had not ever had anything to do with Oriental people beyond going to an Asian restaurant. Also she was a soft-spoken woman, but the "language" came forth in a very bold way, kind of loud! Very interesting to watch this happen!

blessings
tal
 
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jeolmstead

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Ken Sumrall in his book Glory to Glory tells about a trip he took to the holy land after he had come into the charismatic movement. He stood at the Wailing Wall praying. Since there were many people from many nations there he felt that there was no harm in him praying in the spirit. As he was praying he noticed that one by one these Jewish rabbis on either side of him got offended and left.
As they were preparing to leave their guide ask Ken where he learned Hebrew. Ken said he didn’t know Hebrew and the guide told him he had been praising Jesus in Hebrew while praying at the wall.

I personally met a Korean girl while attending a conference at the Bible College of Wales whose prayer language was English!

I do not know how experiences like this would fit with this linguist

John O.
 
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talitha

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I was a witness to a poor young Mexican man (in Mexico) speaking in fluent English - at first he was praising Jesus, and then he couldn't stop speaking in English without knowing what he was saying, and he started saying things like "what's going on?" and "I don't know what I'm saying!" It was really funny! everyone started laughing, even him, and later through an translator we told the guy what had happened......

blessings
tal
 
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Maharg

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I LOVE these stories. Thank you everyone. I speak a small amount of quite a few other languages, but I don't seem to have a 'tongue' yet. Sometimes when I'm worshipping, I'll use a word in another language for Jesus, for example, I like calling him Seigneur. It would be wonderful to speak in tongues 'properly'.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Tongues Outside of Christianity.




Pagan tongues:
Research
The functionality to generate utterance for tongues is innate to all spirits. Spirits can generate utterance for speech (spiritese) just as the mind can generate utterance for speech (mentalese). This can be seen in the various and sundry examples of tongues existing outside of Christianity and even outside of religion altogether.

The 1972 study by John P. Kildahl “The Psychology of Speaking in Tongues” concludes that:

“...from a linguistic point of view, religiously inspired glossolalic utterances have the same general characteristics as those that are not religiously inspired.” In fact, glossolalia is a “human phenomenon, not limited to Christianity nor even to religious behavior.”
(Dictionary of Pentecostal and Charismatic Movements by Spittler, P. 340).


George Jennings in an article in the Journal of the American Scientific Affiliation expands upon the universality of the experience:

“...glossolalia is practiced among the following non-Christian religions of the world; the Peyote cult among the North American Indians, the Haida Indians of the Pacific Northwest, Shamans in the Sudan, the Shango cult of the West Coast of Africa, the Shago cult in Trinidad, the Voodoo cult in Haiti, the Aborigines of South American and Australia, the aboriginal peoples of the subarctic regions of North America and Asia, the Shamans in Greenland, the Dyaks of Borneo, the Zor cult of Ethiopia, the Siberian shamans, the Chaco Indians of South America, the Curanderos of the Andes, the Kinka in the African Sudan, the Thonga shamans of Africa, and the Tibetan monks.
An article in the Journal of the American Scientific Affiliation entitled “An Ethnological Study of Glossolalia” by George J. Jennings, March 1968.


Other studies and sources reach the same conclusions:

“Summary of Behavioral Science Research Data on Glossolalia:
1. Glossolalia is an ancient and widespread phenomenon of most societies, occurring most usually in connection with religion.”
“Behavioral Science Research on the Nature of Glossolalia”, Journal of the American Scientific Affiliation; September, 1968


“There are records of ecstatic speech and the like in Egypt in the eleventh century B.C. In the Hellenistic [Greek] world the prophetess of Delphi and the Sibylline priestess spoke in unknown or unintelligible speech. Moreover, the Dionysianrites contained a trancelike state as well as glossolalia. Many of the magicians and sorcerers of the first century world exhibit similar phenomena.”
G.R.Osborne, in the Evangelical Dictionary of Theology, 1984, page 1100.

“Descriptions of ecstatic speech are common in the study of comparative religions.... The Delphic and Pythian religions of Greece understood ecstatic behavior and speech to be evidence of divine inspiration by Apollos.”
C.M. Robeck, Jr., in The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Vol. 4, 1988, page 872.

“Once they began to commune with that deity, they would begin to speak the language of the gods. This was a very common practice in their culture. In fact, the term used in 1 Corinthians to refer to speaking in tongues (glossais lalein) was not invented by Bible writers. It was a term used commonly in the Greco-Roman culture to speak of the pagan language of the gods which occurred while the speaker was in an ecstatic trance. By the way, this language of the gods was always gibberish.”
“The Truth about Tongues--Part 1” John MacArthur Tape GC 1871

“...Glossolalia is a very ancient practice it is still practiced nowadays in many religions, especially those where one seeks contact with the spirit world (witchcraft/shamanism, voodoo) or a union mystical with the “All”. Mohamed, the founder of Islam, is probably the most famous of those who have practiced glossolalia.”
“Glossolalia (Tongues) and 1 Corinthians 14”
Bruno D. Granger
http://www.apologetique.org/en/rticles/neomontanism/BDG_glossolalia_en.htm


“...the significance of the term 'glossolalia', or 'speaking in tongues', comes to the fore. 'The gift of tongues and of their interpretation was not peculiar to the Christian Church, but was a repetition in it of a phrase common in ancient religions. The very phrase glossais lalein, 'to speak with tongues,' was not invented by the New Testament writers, but borrowed from ordinary speech.”
Encyclopedia Britannica (1911), s.v, “Gift of Tongues,” by Fredrick C. Conybeare, 27:10.

“Enthusiastic, ecstatic, mystic, possession, trance and other kindred phenomena have long been of interest to anthropologists. Cross-cultural reviews of ethnographic data on glossolalia in particular have been published by L.C. May, Jennings, M. Eliade, among others. The practice was known in ancient India and China, and ethnographies describe glossolalia in almost every area of the world... speaking-in-tongues is widespread and very ancient.”
E. Mansell Pattison
Behavioral Science Research On The Nature Of Glossolalia Journal of the American Scientific Affiliation, September 1968

Research conducted by Al Carlson at the University of California and Werner Cohn at the University of British Columbia indicate that anyone can produce glossolalic speech which sounded genuine even to believers.
Jimmy Jividen, “Glossolalia: from God or man?” p 163.

“This survey has shown that speaking-in-tongues is widespread and very ancient. Indeed, it is probably that as long as man has had divination, curing, sorcery, and propitiation of spirits, he has had glossolalia ... Whatever the explanation, it is clear that pagans as well as Christians have their glossolalia experiences.”
Jimmy Jividen, “Glossolalia: from God or man?” p 74,75

“It should be noted that, while there are Hellenistic parallels for tongues, there is also an OT basis. Thus the seers of 1 Sam. 10:5ff. seem to be robbed of their individuality, and their fervor finds expression in broken cries and unintelligible speech (cf. 2 Kgs. 9:11). Drunkards mock Isaiah’s babbling speech (Is. 28:10-11). The later literatare, e.g., Eth. En. 71:11, gives similar examples of ecstatic speech (not necessarily speaking in tongues).”
The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, Abridged in One Volume. Kittel, Gerhard, and Friedrich, Gerhard, Editors (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1985) Johannes Behm. Unabridged edition of the TDNT, Volume I, page 722.

“Glossolalia is an ancient and widespread phenomenon of most societies, occurring most usually in connection with religion.”
Behavioral Science Research on the Nature of Glossolalia Journal of the American Scientific Affiliation, September, 1968

This may be confusing for believers who hold that only Christians speak in tongues. This perception is arrived at because they conclude the only “real” manifestation of tongues is that which is enhanced by and precipitated by the Holy Spirit and no “real” tongues could exist outside of, not only believers, but believers who have experienced the Holy Ghost baptism. These believers correctly judge that tongues outside of the Christian experience are “non-Christian tongues,” but they are “false” only insomuch as they do not originate from within the spiritual kingdom of God. Yet they are real “tongues” according to our wider definition. These are soundings issuing from a spiritual utterance, even if the spirit providing that utterance is unregenerate and of the kingdom of the devil.

The researchers we cited were correct in their observations but were incorrect in their conclusions because they were using the “supernatural” definition of speaking in tongues. They were attempting to prove these languages were human languages (by their definition i.e. “Xenoglossia”) and that the source of the speech was the Holy Spirit. To my knowledge no researcher has conducted a study that would seek to prove the theory that speaking in tongues is a universal phenomena experienced by all humans. Most are seeking some evidence for a supernatural element rather than a “merely spiritual” function. It is unknown whether these researchers consider the human spirit as a valid source of speech. In some cases they may not even consider humans to possess a spirit or that the spiritual even exists.

You cannot do an in-depth study of “speaking in languages” without first having a basic understanding of linguistics. Linguistics is the science of language. Not “languages” as in “comparative languages.” Rather linguistics is the study of the nature and structure of language in general, including topics like phonetics, phonology, morphology, syntax, semantics, sociolinguistics, and pragmatics.

We will look at some of these topics, but we shall see that with regards to “tongues” some of these are not relevant. A linguist is a scientist who studies language. Linguists represent the science of linguistics as a number of concentric circles. In the centermost circle is “phonemes,” which describes the smallest elements of language. These smallest elements are called “phonemes.” You likely learned these “phonemes” in grade school as the vowels and consonants that make up your native language as well as the sounds associated with them. Any good dictionary has a pronunciation key that will display all the phonemes. For the purpose of this study, we will simply refer to these as the resource from which the sounds of tongues are drawn.
 
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ChaseinChrist

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so someone speaking the clicking language is likely to use those sounds but not the words
I am yet another person who loves these questions, but to answer this little part of the question: When you get the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, you speak as the Spirit gives you the words, and I was always taught that speaking in tounges is praising God in another language(and praying too, just my personal opinion), so maybe the person from the country that speaks that same language does not make the same sound because they are not praying for someone or praising God.

P.S.*I really hope this is clear enough, lol :) I can't really make it any clearer.....:)
 
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Andrew

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I find that in your 'normal' everyday tongues, like when you pray or just speak to yourself, the sounds don't really change much. ie your tongues is recognisable to you and sounds the same as it did yesterday or last week.

But when there is a message to be given to the church or interpreted, it suddenly sounds rather different from the usual.

Anyway, does it really matter what it sounds like?

I find it interesting that when the Apostles heard new believers filled with the Spirit speaking in tongues, they never asked one another: "Hey, is this real or is this guy faking it?" "Is this the Holy Spirit or is it some other spirit?" "Why doesn't his sound like a language at all?"

Funny the Bible is silent on all these questions.
 
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heron

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Wow, these are fascinating stories. Mattering what it sounds like--some of us just love languages, so it's not about legalism, but curiosity.

The Mexican-English one is enlightening, because I don't always know the balance of the Spirit praying through me for unknown things, and my own concerns....that example showed there's clearly some of our expression in it.

.
 
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CrazyforYeshua

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jeolmstead said:
Ken Sumrall in his book Glory to Glory tells about a trip he took to the holy land after he had come into the charismatic movement. He stood at the Wailing Wall praying. Since there were many people from many nations there he felt that there was no harm in him praying in the spirit. As he was praying he noticed that one by one these Jewish rabbis on either side of him got offended and left.
As they were preparing to leave their guide ask Ken where he learned Hebrew. Ken said he didn’t know Hebrew and the guide told him he had been praising Jesus in Hebrew while praying at the wall.

There is a Messianic Jewish man by me that had this experience. He went forward, after being saved, to receive the Baptism. The man praying for him was speaking Hebrew, very specific prayers. When he was done, Sandy said "I didn't know you spoke Hebrew". He said "I don't". He was floored, and knew this was what he wanted.
Also, the Word says this:

Acts 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.Acts 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.Acts 2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?Acts 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?Acts 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,Acts 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,Acts 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.Acts 2:12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?


My question has always been, did the Apostles speak in those languages, or did these people just hear in those languages? It doesn't say, but I'm leaning towards just hearing it. Jack Hayford also had that experience, speaking in what he said was his prayer language he had had for 20 years, at the urging of the Holy Spirit to a Native American man. The man said it spoke of a light from above-Jack was ecstatic. So then again, did he speak that, or did the man just hear it?
Intriguing question....
 
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heron

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No idea. I was originally taught that the prayer language is completely unique, but experience (like these) shows differently. Scripturally, the public tongues in Acts 2 were intended to inform those who otherwise wouldn't have heard about Jesus.

Since the person prayer language is a fairly private practice, we don't have opportunities to measure or compare.

Some churches encourage prayer in tongues during the service, as a congregational interlude free song between songs. In this, there's an amazing harmony of hundreds of voices coming together in purpose and sound.

We see the other type of tongues less frequently...sometimes because churches don't know what to do with them. Scripturally, an interpreter should be present...which means that when you feel you should speak in tongues, you need to find out who has the interpretation.

The spirit does prompt and connect interpreters with those speaking in tongues, but if this isn't practiced often, people get shy and sit back, wondering what to do with the word. And some Charismatic churches simply say that they don't want public tongues, because it could get out of control.

There's often an unusual feeling, as if power were flowing between points in the room. Sometimes I know by this feeling who is going to prophesy next...and within seconds, the person opens their mouth. It's such a unique experience to be in a Charismatic service...if you haven't done it before, it's worth a visit! Not for the phenomena, but for such an overwhelming sense that God is actively involved.
.​
 
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The thinker

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WOW... amazing stories!

Personally when I pray in tongues it sounds very similar to Hebrew but not as flowing, if that makes sense... I only started speaking in tongues recently when the other day I was watching the God channel. There was a show about Israel on, during the show they were speaking Hebrew. I was shocked to find it sounded very like myself when I pray in tongues!

However I heard my Mother praying in tongues a few months ago and it sounded like Latin. If I didn't know she was speaking tongues I would have thought she was speaking Latin fluently.

-WWC
 
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rapturefish

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zhilan said:
Hello. I don't mean this in any way to be offensive, I am just wanting to ask this not debate, so please don't take it that way. I'd like to hear your answers.

So here's my question. I have read that when linguist have studied people speakign in tongues they found that the tongues language is made of sounds from the language of a speaker. So an English speaker speaking in tongues will make sounds that are exotic, but familiar sounds to the English language but will not tend to make sounds that are not found in the English language (such as the clicking sounds made in certain African languages) meanwhile speakers of other languages will do the same, making sounds exotic but yet familiar to their language (so someone speaking the clicking language is likely to use those sounds but not the words).

Do you know why this is? Would this be a way God works (ie giving people a language in their own sounds) or is the tongues language the same language for everone?

Thanks!

I wouldn't say that this is a hard and fast rule - thelanguage given to each person is unique and there are testimonies of both known languages and unknown languages with tongues-speakers. There are people who have been known to speak in tongues and it is a known language completely unknown to the speaker and not in the speaker's experience - but has been identified by someone from the country that speaks that language as being fluent.

More commonly in my experience the tongues appear to be unknown in nature, and these don't always follow the rules of known languages - i.e. a person couldn't pinpoint patterns in them the way you'd still be able to in a foreign known language - and that in no way means they are fake or less legitimate at all, but they do all sound different. Some are quite rapid, others are slower, they have different sounds.

I should also add that a person's tongue can actually change from day to day or moment to moment. I know that when I first began to speak it sounded much like Mandarin to me, but that changed and at times sounded a bit like other languages put together but then again not quite. There are times when it is quite rapid and articulate, and it has been known to change to more intimate, soft sounds. There is one sort of sound that I generally equate to almost like a purging of sinful ways and usually comes following repentance from a bad stretch of wayardness.

I can't answer on specific sounds of a person's tongue only being confined to that person's known language, but I can say that whenever you think you've found a pattern, there's always a number that throw it out the window. The Holy Spirit is a person and the languages given cannot be made into a formula - they are unique, creatively given and ultimately the sounds are not the most important thing - it is the effect that speaking has on the person. People are filled, edified, and filled to overflowing with the fruit of the Spirit. They are ready to overflow into other's lives as a result of using it. and that is a great thing to have.

blessings,
 
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mortsmune

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zhilan said:
Hello. I don't mean this in any way to be offensive, I am just wanting to ask this not debate, so please don't take it that way. I'd like to hear your answers.

So here's my question. I have read that when linguist have studied people speakign in tongues they found that the tongues language is made of sounds from the language of a speaker. So an English speaker speaking in tongues will make sounds that are exotic, but familiar sounds to the English language but will not tend to make sounds that are not found in the English language (such as the clicking sounds made in certain African languages) meanwhile speakers of other languages will do the same, making sounds exotic but yet familiar to their language (so someone speaking the clicking language is likely to use those sounds but not the words).

Do you know why this is? Would this be a way God works (ie giving people a language in their own sounds) or is the tongues language the same language for everone?

Thanks!
I have a fairly good knowledge of linguistics, especially phonetics. I don't believe what you state is necessarily true. I do not know that there have been many serious studies of speaking in tongues by linguists. I only know of one such incident, and it took place back in the 1970s. If you know of others, I would like to know more specifics. If there are any data on this, I would like to see them as well.

I have heard people in America speaking in tongues, speaking a language that was the same language spoken by believers in Central America. I have frequently heard Americans speak in tongues using sounds that are not in the catalogue of English phonemes. I once heard someone speak in tongues in Spanish. I once heard someone speak in tongues in Hebrew. I heard a minister on TV speak in tongues that in a language similar enough to Spanish that I could understand what he was saying. In looking back at it now, I believe perhaps he was speaking Occitans or perhaps Catalan.

Once during a deliverance session, the Holy Spirit led me to speak in tongues to the man being delivered. He was a French Canadiana and spoke French, which I did not. He told me afterwards that I was speaking in perfect Parisian French.
 
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mortsmune

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CrazyforYeshua said:
Jack Hayford also had that experience, speaking in what he said was his prayer language he had had for 20 years, at the urging of the Holy Spirit to a Native American man. The man said it spoke of a light from above-Jack was ecstatic. So then again, did he speak that, or did the man just hear it?
Intriguing question....
I have heard Jack Hayford tell this story. It happened back in the 1970s. The language he spoke, as I recall, was a dialect of Quechua. It is a language that has many sounds that are not found in English, some very exotic sounds.
 
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