Tolerance v. Acceptance - Does one lead to the other?

[TreeHouse]

Some recent events in my life had me at odds with a loved one over certain ideologies and one that I thought migh have been worthy of a larger group discussion was this one. My apologies as this could delve off into philosophy quite easily.

Obviously, I am of the liberal view of tolerance for most thngs, otherwise I probably wouldn't be posting here. As such, my stance was that there is a difference between tolerance and acceptance. Specifically, I maintained that tolerance does not equate to acceptance. It is just our natural instinct, born from the higher capacity of love we know from grace that we are to treat all as equals, even if we do not accept them as such.

Her contention was that if we tolerate anything contrary to the bible, be it sin of any sort, major or minor (insert your sins of choice here), we are giving the perception that we accept the behavior. I said why not look at it as "hate the sin, love the sinner" but that didn't fly.

Eventually we agreed on the idea that Jesus tolerated a lot just by virtue of who he was speaking about and the things he did, and I thought we had a solid middle ground because while Jesus tolerated these behaviors, he was not necessarily accepting them as being okay. He just understood them to be a part of human nature.

However, even with that, she vehemently stated that any modicum of tolerance leads to acceptance and that was why the world is the way it now. I countered by playng her argument and saying that Jesus wasn't tolerated or accepted by most in those days and yet we are saved anyways, which in retrospect, didn't help my case.

Anyways, I thought I would throw that out there for some meaty discussion.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Anyone who knows me knows my convictions. I make no secret of what I believe. At the same time, although for example I hold the traditionally conservative belief that the act of homosexuality is contrary to Scripture, and even my gay friends know I believe that, it doesn't follow that I have to harass them, allow their mistreatment, vote against their right to live as they choose--or for that matter, refuse to have gay friends. Good grief, if I took the attitude that I could only allow someone's presence in my life if they behaved exactly as I think they should, ultimately I wouldn't be able to let *anybody* in, because who does?

 

[rayodeluz]

From dictionary.com for the word "tolerance"

Synonyms1, 2. patience, sufferance, forbearance; liberality, impartiality, open-mindedness. T olerance , toleration agree in allowing the right of something that one does not approve. T olerance suggests a liberal spirit toward the views and actions of others: tolerance toward religious minorities. Toleration implies the allowance or sufferance of conduct with which one is not in accord: toleration of graft.

 

[TreeHouse]

Hey Hey Hey, let's not be defining words here after my mind is made up

 

[AlexBP]

Yeah, I've also wondered about the overuse of the word of the word "tolerance" these days. Many people don't seem to know that it means putting up with something despite disagreement, or in other words it keeping one's disapproval internal.

More generally, though, I would agree with you against your friend. Try reading the first letter to the Corinthians, where Paul discusses at length how the Christian community should deal with sins. Some sins require confrontation and, if the sinner will not repent, they must in the end by expelled. But that is not true for all sins.

 

[lismore]

I always find it interesting to look at the example of Jesus and see what he did.

Jesus seemed to meet with 'undesirable' characters, tax collectors, prostitutes and the like. He sat at dinner with them and talked to them. They seemed to respond to him.

However Jesus had most of his problems with the religious leaders who followed him, trying to trap him! He called them whitewashed tombs, snakes and the like.

I think the pharisees attitude towards a tax collector was tolerance. They said nothing overtly about them, just tried to shun them. ANd in their hearts they looked down on them.

On the other hand Jesus accepted the tax collector like Zacchaeus. Went to his house for dinner. And Zacchaeus responded to that!

In the story of the prodigal son the father wrapped the choice robe around the son, accepting him even though he was dirty and had been far away.

 

[Vikidul]

well, Jesus is awesome

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

I tolerate a lot of things I don't necessarily accept.

 

[rayodeluz]

I tolerate a lot of things I don't necessarily accept.

We have to if we're going to get along in this world. We've all been given free will, so people should be able to do what they want as long as it doesn't involve hurting someone else. I may not agree with what some others are doing, but it's certainly not my place to say anything or make judgements.

 

[Dark_Lite]

I may not agree with what some others are doing, but it's certainly not my place to say anything or make judgements.

In which case you are tolerating but not accepting.

 

[Ronald]

LOVE YOUR ENEMIES but hate the sin is a correct disposition. By law, we have to tolerate other religions and peoples right to practice. You don't have to approve of it, praise it, respect it, you're just respecting their right to practice it. There is a liberal tendency to say whatever floats your boat as long as it doesn't infringe on my territoty. But, for example, Islam is infringing on other peoples territory in a terrifying way. Follow its growth for 30 years from now and you will see that they will dominate the world just in numbers and convert it. I know it will not go that far. The Lord will intervene shortly!!!
The question is what would Jesus do? He loves sinners to a point and then He cuts them off. Everyone dies and God is in control. When he returns, HE WILL NOT BE TOLERANT OF ANYONE WHO OPPOSES HIM AND THEY WILL BE CUT OFF or in other terms destroyed physically and spiritually. But He will judge.
We don't know who will be saved down the road so loving them may win them over later on ... it may not. To be or not to be ... ?

 

[seashale76]

Personally, I accept the fact that others are going to do what they're going to do no matter what I think about it, so I just have to tolerate it.

 

[rayodeluz]

In which case you are tolerating but not accepting.

Yes, that's pretty obvious.

 

[Dark_Lite]

Yes, that's pretty obvious.

It looks like I actually misinterpreted your original post in this thread. I thought you were saying we have to tolerate and accept things.

 

[rayodeluz]

It looks like I actually misinterpreted your original post in this thread. I thought you were saying we have to tolerate and accept things.

Not a problem!

 

[Im_A]

Some recent events in my life had me at odds with a loved one over certain ideologies and one that I thought migh have been worthy of a larger group discussion was this one. My apologies as this could delve off into philosophy quite easily.

Obviously, I am of the liberal view of tolerance for most thngs, otherwise I probably wouldn't be posting here. As such, my stance was that there is a difference between tolerance and acceptance. Specifically, I maintained that tolerance does not equate to acceptance. It is just our natural instinct, born from the higher capacity of love we know from grace that we are to treat all as equals, even if we do not accept them as such.

Her contention was that if we tolerate anything contrary to the bible, be it sin of any sort, major or minor (insert your sins of choice here), we are giving the perception that we accept the behavior. I said why not look at it as "hate the sin, love the sinner" but that didn't fly.

Eventually we agreed on the idea that Jesus tolerated a lot just by virtue of who he was speaking about and the things he did, and I thought we had a solid middle ground because while Jesus tolerated these behaviors, he was not necessarily accepting them as being okay. He just understood them to be a part of human nature.

However, even with that, she vehemently stated that any modicum of tolerance leads to acceptance and that was why the world is the way it now. I countered by playng her argument and saying that Jesus wasn't tolerated or accepted by most in those days and yet we are saved anyways, which in retrospect, didn't help my case.

Anyways, I thought I would throw that out there for some meaty discussion.

I tend to view that we tolerate that which we don't agree with or am not and we accept that which we do agree with

Example...define 'accepting' homosexuality for a heterosexual? Doesn't make much sense to me. Not seeing a moral wrong with homosexuality and supporting the legal recognition of homosexual couples doesn't mean acceptance of homosexuality. I see no moral wrong with homosexuality and support legal recognition of homosexual couples but I will never accept homosexuality in my sex life. No girl on girl and no guy to be added in. So it clearly shows how I do not accept homosexuality actions in my sex life.

So in my opinion, it all depends on how far one is talking about with 'acceptance' in my opinion.

 

[meliagaunt]

None of us, I guess, are willing to tolerate everything: we all (almost all) refuse to tolerate murder, rape, child abuse, etc. But the lines in the sand do get redrawn: In the past many would not tolerate homosexuality (cf what happened to Oscar Wilde). Now many would. Read Ephesians 6:5-9 to find that Paul (or the writer who used his name if it wasn't by Paul) tolerated and as far as I can see accepted slavery.

It seems to me that for all of us, there are things that we can neither tolerate nor accept. There are also things we don't especially like, but can tolerate in others, because keeping relationships open is more important than maintaining a sort of ritual purity. And there are also things that in the past seemed intolerable (like women not wearing hats in church) that for many people now seem fine and acceptable, and it is a puzzle why anyone should go on objecting to them.

For me, although like Im_a in his last post, I have no personal interest in homosexual experience, it is fine and acceptable between consenting adults, and I wish all Christians would put it aside and concentrate on genuinely important issues like the poverty, displacement and dictatorship that mars so much of God's world today.

 

[Gregory Eugene]

I think you may be making too big of an assumption by stating that tolerance of the sinner led to the acceptance of the sin. Johnny Cash is a great life to look to because we have public record of his entire Christian walk, from salvation to drugs to adultery, from adultery the cross and eventually to Heaven. We know that when Johnny Cash recorded at Folsom Prison he was a crass, swearing, irreverent Christian who loved the Lord with all his heart, By the time of his death did his foul mouth and bad habits lead him away from God... no, his love for God lead him away from sin. Far to often we believe that sin took us away from God when in reality loosing sight of God lead us to sin.

 

[Gregory Eugene]

Personally, I accept the fact that others are going to do what they're going to do no matter what I think about it, so I just have to tolerate it.

That sounds like a very manipulative reason for your views on justice, not to be judgemental myself, I was just hoping you would explain