Todd Bentley

[Chococat]

What do people here think of Todd Bentley and the alleged Lakeland Revival in Florida. Do you think it is genuine, faked or demonic? I'd like a lively discussion here but please let's keep it friendly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--SEIA67rGI

 

[GraceLikeRainFallsDown]

I looked into this guy a few weeks ago and I was shocked at how many people who would consider themselves "mature" christians are being deceived.

I think this guy is a false teacher.

Just look up other videos on You Tube. (I would post them if I knew how ) There were a couple where he said God told him to kick an old lady in the face and run people down. This does not sound like it is from God.

Also, the fact that his ministry started by a visit by the Angel Emma bothers me greatly. I believe he was visited by a demon.

Matthew 24 comes to mind:

Matt. 24:24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

With all the searching I did on this guy, I heard very little preaching from him. It seems to be all about the "miracles" with him. He does appear to give Jesus the glory which confuses me. I expected him to take all the glory. If someone finds a video or quote of him taking credit for any miracle, I would be interested in reading it.

 

[dead2self]

From what I hear from various sources it's either fake, or demonic. Fake is giving it the benefit of the doubt but in all honesty I'd be shocked if there is no demonic influence in it.

It's all emotion, repetitive nearly to the point of chanting and no teaching going on. This is not how the Holy Spirit works.

 

[Chococat]

I entirely agree and I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who thinks that way. I knew it was a false ministry when I first saw that video you mentioned Grace. Anywhere here are 2 more videos made by a lady who has researched Mr Bentley's ministry and also has Christian friends who were once followers of his and were hurt spiritually as a result. Pretty disturbing but worth watching IMO. At best this man is a con artist and at worse he is demonised. Whatever it is needed he needs our prayers as do the many believers who are being deceived.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqJaJzHdGaI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG1yp3d2PHY

Btw to load youtube videos all you need to do is copy the URL in the browser and then paste it here.

 

[nzguy]

I am prepared to make the statement that if it involves 'charismania'.. abusing spiritual gifts to the point where they are disorderly and incoherent.. it is pretty much the same thing as New Age or Pagan beliefs.

Check out the church at Corinth.. hyper-charismatic churches use their example for practising spiritual gifts.. but this church was practising spiritual gifts in the wrong way, thru having Pagan babelling tongues mixed with the real gift of tongues of the time, and were all coming together and being disorderly and incoherent in their practise of spiritual gifts.

Paul was adamant with them.. if you look at the tone of his writings from the Greek manuscripts. Order and decency was what he was admonishing for the congregation at Corinth.

This church is not the example to use for spiritual gifts, unless you are prepared to abide by the boundaries set down by Paul for order and decency!

I have not yet seen any Charismatic or Pentecostal church that adheres to the boundaries laid down by Paul for the church at Corinth.

A study in Personality Psychology on the Barnum Personality Affect is very educational in regards to astrology, star signs and it also has application to false prophecy and emotionalism in Christianity.

I would stay away from anyone abusing spiritual gifts with a ten-foot barge pole, because in the end times Revelation verses, the anti-Christ will be the one showing signs and wonders and Jesus will not!

from

NZguy

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

I have not yet seen any Charismatic or Pentecostal church that adheres to the boundaries laid down by Paul for the church at Corinth.

I'm new to the whole charismatic thing, having been a member of an Assemblies of God church for less than a year, but so far as I can tell, we don't at all fit the 'charismaniac' designation, being actually rather more reserved than I expected in our expressions of charismata. We seem to be more Calvary Chapel-style "bapticostal" than full-blown Pentecostal. That may be just our particular congregation; I have no previous experience with AG to compare it to. We certainly do believe in testing it all against scripture. If we've failed in that, I haven't seen it yet.

 

[Chococat]

I am all for using the supernatural gifts of the Spirit in church as when they are used properly they are a great blessing to the church. The problem comes when the gifts become an end in themselves instead of being used to glorify God. It is then when satan can come in and give counterfeit gifts in order to deceive people.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

I am all for using the supernatural gifts of the Spirit in church as when they are used properly they are a great blessing to the church. The problem comes when the gifts become an end in themselves instead of being used to glorify God. It is then when satan can come in and give counterfeit gifts in order to deceive people.

I totally agree!

 

[nzguy]

yeah..I see faith hope and love as the remaining gifts.. but if Christians who believe in sign and ministry gifts are for now, are at least trying to practise them in an orderly and decent fashion.. then I at least respect them obeying the boundaries laid down by Paul in Acts 2 and 1 Corinthians.

I think the biggest acid test on the likes of Todd Bentley is what does he believe salvation is?

 

[NorrinRadd]

I am prepared to make the statement that if it involves 'charismania'.. abusing spiritual gifts to the point where they are disorderly and incoherent.. it is pretty much the same thing as New Age or Pagan beliefs.

Check out the church at Corinth.. hyper-charismatic churches use their example for practising spiritual gifts.. but this church was practising spiritual gifts in the wrong way, thru having Pagan babelling tongues mixed with the real gift of tongues of the time,...

You are accusing the Corinthians of something that Paul himself did not. He never said or even hinted that any of their tongues-speaking was not truly of the Spirit of God.

and were all coming together and being disorderly and incoherent in their practise of spiritual gifts.

Paul was adamant with them.. if you look at the tone of his writings from the Greek manuscripts. Order and decency was what he was admonishing for the congregation at Corinth.

This church is not the example to use for spiritual gifts, unless you are prepared to abide by the boundaries set down by Paul for order and decency!

Sorry, again I don't think I quite agree. I believe that church *was* a good model to the extent that it involved ministry and supernatural manifestations by the whole body, not just the guy on the platform. And I believe the "rules" need not strictly apply in charismatic churches not plagued by the excesses and strife seen in Corinth; clearly the assemblies in Acts 2, 10, and 19 did not follow those "rules" in regard to tongues and interpretation.

I have not yet seen any Charismatic or Pentecostal church that adheres to the boundaries laid down by Paul for the church at Corinth.

Likewise. And for a little while, for the first year or so after I left the "Word of Faith" type of Pentecostal church I attended for about 8 years in the mid-'80s to early-'90s, I was inclined to lump them all together as erring and possibly demonized. But upon reading more closely what Paul and Luke wrote, I realized that was a drastic overreaction. Now, I no longer follow a hermeneutic that views Scripture as a universal systematized "rule book."

 

[NorrinRadd]

...

Just look up other videos on You Tube. (I would post them if I knew how ) There were a couple where he said God told him to kick an old lady in the face and run people down. This does not sound like it is from God. ...

That kind of thing disturbs me also.

OTOH, how would you react if some famous miracle-working preacher spit in your eyes (Matt. 8:23), and said God told Him to do it (John 5:19)?

 

[Chococat]

Welll making a paste with mud and spittle is not a violent act like kicking someone in the face is.

 

[Amaryllismayfly]

Welll making a paste with mud and spittle is not a violent act like kicking someone in the face is.

I can totally understand why someone would have a problem with Todd. My thought is that as Christians we should confront the person directly. I don't like the you-tubes because they cut so much footage out, and sometimes type their own thoughts in. For instance, did you know that the people we are offended for in these clips continue to go and support Todd for years? Did you know that they were instantly healed of cancer? It's very interesting to hear the rest of the stories. Another fact is that he has never been sued, in this country where people sue people because they have overdue library books!

Also, this is not to defend Todd, but what about the violent act of plunging a knife into your son because you "heard God"? Or having your teacher tell you to commit cannabalism... eat my body... the bible says that most of Jesus followers left that day when he said that.

What ever you believe, may your walk with God grow and increase in your knowledge of his love for you, and your quick obedience to him. Me too!!

 

[NorrinRadd]

Welll making a paste with mud and spittle is not a violent act like kicking someone in the face is.

That's John 9:6. My reference was to Matt. 8:23, certainly not as aggressive as kicking someone, but a bit more so than just making an anointing paste out of dirt and spit.

Much as I'm put off by this sort of thing, especially when it becomes a sort of "fad" of whatever minister is doing it, I do think it's something we have to judge by its fruit -- i.e., did the person end up with a fat lip, or a healing?

 

[dead2self]

I can totally understand why someone would have a problem with Todd. My thought is that as Christians we should confront the person directly. I don't like the you-tubes because they cut so much footage out, and sometimes type their own thoughts in. For instance, did you know that the people we are offended for in these clips continue to go and support Todd for years? Did you know that they were instantly healed of cancer? It's very interesting to hear the rest of the stories. Another fact is that he has never been sued, in this country where people sue people because they have overdue library books!

Some good points but perhaps an assumption or two as well. I do not see his lack of lawsuits as indicative of this being a true revival. In fact, in a world that is supposed to hate us and that is supposed to love false teachers that fact could be used to argue against him. Furthermore, we really need to look at the methods he uses. I have heard no one actually claim that any real teaching is going on. The Holy Spirit does not work where the word of God is not preached.

Also, this is not to defend Todd, but what about the violent act of plunging a knife into your son because you "heard God"? Or having your teacher tell you to commit cannabalism... eat my body... the bible says that most of Jesus followers left that day when he said that.

I must wonder at the quotation marks there around heard God...Abraham did in fact hear God and the command to sacrifice Isaac was a test of faith. Comparing that, however, to what is going on with this Todd fellow I think cannot be done without really stretching things. As for the cannibalism bit...I think perhaps your interpretaion is a bit off. Cannibalism has no place in Christianity. The bread as His flesh is symbolic of some deep truths.

 

[Chococat]

did the person end up with a fat lip, or a healing?

IMO the ultimate question is not whether or not a person was "healed" as demons can perform "healings" as well. The question is how that person's walk with God was affected. Demons can and will heal a body at the expense of a soul. The real issue is are people repenting of their sins and turning to Christ for salvation? Also is Christ being glorified? If you listen to his preaching he seems to be glorifying angels not Christ. Yes angels do help believers but they should not be worshipped or glorified in any way.

 

[champuru]

I dont think this guy is demonic just a crazy false teacher. lol its sad when people believe guys like this.

 

[Amaryllismayfly]

Some good points but perhaps an assumption or two as well. I do not see his lack of lawsuits as indicative of this being a true revival. In fact, in a world that is supposed to hate us and that is supposed to love false teachers that fact could be used to argue against him. Furthermore, we really need to look at the methods he uses. I have heard no one actually claim that any real teaching is going on. The Holy Spirit does not work where the word of God is not preached.



I must wonder at the quotation marks there around heard God...Abraham did in fact hear God and the command to sacrifice Isaac was a test of faith. Comparing that, however, to what is going on with this Todd fellow I think cannot be done without really stretching things. As for the cannibalism bit...I think perhaps your interpretaion is a bit off. Cannibalism has no place in Christianity. The bread as His flesh is symbolic of some deep truths.

I completely agree that Abraham did hear God.

Cannabalism is what the Jewish people believe he was saying~ We have hindsite and understand what he meant.

John 6:52Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?"
53Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

66From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

 

[dead2self]

Cannabalism is what the Jewish people believe he was saying~ We have hindsite and understand what he meant.

Oh Ok, I guess we are in accord then. I think I see where you were going with that.

 

[mont974x4]

He claims God has told him to kick people in the face, leg drop a pastor, and other manners of physical abuse. Then he gets into the whole angel business.


I pray he is led to the Truth soon, for his sake and the sake of his followers.