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Tobit 6:5-8, what does this mean?

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Koontzy

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Tobit 6:5-8, If the Devil, or an evil spirit troubles anyone, they can be driven away by making a smoke of the heart, liver, and gall of a fish...and the Devil will smell it, and flee away, and never come again anymore.


I was telling my grandma about the Apocrypha, and she mentioned this verse... I lookes it up and, it sounds like some kind of magic??? that whats she told me at least... can anyonle explain this verse to me?
 

Angeldove97

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Really don't know the meaning behind that verse. But I did find this....

Why is the Apocrypha not in most Bibles?


The Apocrypha is not commonly accepted as a credible historical source. The timeline for most of these noncanonized books only goes back to the Middle Ages. Every New Testament book, however, can be traced back to the first century.

Unlike the Bible's authors, none of the apocryphal writers ever claimed divine inspiration as their source. The entire canonized Bible was written by authors who claim direct inspiration from God which is the only reason that we can accept the Bible as perfect and completely infallible.

Furthermore, instead of complimenting the Holy Bible, the Apocrypha has several passages that actually contradict the Word of God. The blatant disparity between some of the doctrines of these extra-biblical books and the teachings of the canonized Holy Bible, is one of the reasons that these books were not included as part of the Bible. The following are three examples of these contradictions.

Basis for the doctrine of purgatory:
2 Maccabees 12:43-45, "2,000 pieces of silver were sent to Jerusalem for a sin-offering...Whereupon he made reconciliation for the dead, that they might be delivered from sin."

Salvation by works:
Ecclesiasticus 3:30, "Water will quench a flaming fire, and alms maketh atonement for sin. Tobit 12:8-9, 17, It is better to give alms than to lay up gold; for alms doth deliver from death, and shall purge away all sin." Magic:
Tobit 6:5-8, "If the Devil, or an evil spirit troubles anyone, they can be driven away by making a smoke of the heart, liver, and gall of a fish...and the Devil will smell it, and flee away, and never come again anymore."

Link: http://www.raptureready.leinc.net/faq/faq94.html
 
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anawim

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Koontzy said:
Tobit 6:5-8, If the Devil, or an evil spirit troubles anyone, they can be driven away by making a smoke of the heart, liver, and gall of a fish...and the Devil will smell it, and flee away, and never come again anymore.


I was telling my grandma about the Apocrypha, and she mentioned this verse... I lookes it up and, it sounds like some kind of magic??? that whats she told me at least... can anyonle explain this verse to me?

If the Angel was conjuring up some spirits to cast out the demon she may have a point. The quotation of Deuteronomy says that one is not supposed to use a charmer, practice divination, or encourage sorcery (Dt. 18:10-12). That is absolutely irrelevant to Tobit, as the angel does no such conjuring up of Spirits, he is a spirit taking on the appearance of flesh himself.
 
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lionroar0

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The apocryppha has always been part of the bible and the inspired Word of God. Till Martin Luther said that they were not inspired. He then moved them to the back of the Bible as an appendix. It wasn't till the puritans that they were completely taken out.

Also one has to read to the NT to know that not everything in the NT claims to be inspirired.

Peace
 
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TAquinas

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Tob 6:5 The angel then told him: "Cut the fish open and take out its gall, heart, and liver, and keep them with you; but throw away the entrails. Its gall, heart, and liver make useful medicines." 6 After the lad had cut the fish open, he put aside the gall, heart, and liver. Then he broiled and ate part of the fish; the rest he salted and kept for the journey. 7 Afterward they traveled on together till they were near Media. The boy asked the angel this question: "Brother Azariah, what medicinal value is there in the fish's heart, liver, and gall?" 8 He answered: "As regards the fish's heart and liver, if you burn them so that the smoke surrounds a man or a woman who is afflicted by a demon or evil spirit, the affliction will leave him completely, and no demons will ever return to him again.

It usually helps to have all the verses in context. In the ancient world different parts of the fish were considered medicinal. Nothing magical about it.

Ancient medicine is fairly interesting when you take a peek into the past, some of it is resurfacing today. Many of the plant and animals they used we are rediscovering today to have useful properties and we use them now in extract forms, especially vitamins. They actually had kits to do brain surgery back then too, and by the condition of the skulls found, they were fairly adept at it; who'da thunk. Most of the instruments used are almost exact copies (if a previous version can be called a copy) of what are used today.

Peace in Christ
TAquinas
 
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isshinwhat

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I lookes it up and, it sounds like some kind of magic??? that whats she told me at least... can anyonle explain this verse to me?

I don't see that it is any different than a handkerchief from Paul driving out demons, or Jesus spitting in the sand and wiping the mud on a blind man's eyes to cure him. God does not shy away from using things He has made as opportunities for His graces to flow.

Acts 19:11-12

And God did extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul, so that handkerchiefs or aprons were carried away from his body to the sick, and diseases left them and the evil spirits came out of them.

God Bless,

Neal
 
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isshinwhat

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The Apocrypha is not commonly accepted as a credible historical source. The timeline for most of these noncanonized books only goes back to the Middle Ages.

The books of the Bible mentioned above were in the very first Canon of the Bible and were not removed until after the Reformation had begun in the 1500s.

"Likewise it has been said: Now indeed we must treat of the divine Scriptures, what the universal Catholic Church accepts and what she ought to shun.The order of the Old Testament begins here: Genesis one book, Exodus one book, Leviticus one book, Numbers one book, Deuteronomy one book, Josue Nave one book, Judges one book, Ruth one book, Kings four books, Paraleipomenon two books, Psalms one book, Solomon three books, Proverbs one book, Ecclesiastes one book, Canticle of Canticles one book, likewise Wisdom one book, Ecclesiasticus one book. Likewise the order of the Prophets. Isaias one book, Jeremias one book,with Ginoth, that is, with his lamentations, Ezechiel one book,Daniel one book, Osee one book, Micheas one book, Joel one book, Abdias one book, Jonas one book, Nahum one book, Habacuc one book, Sophonias one book, Aggeus one book, Zacharias one book, Malachias one book. Likewise the order of the histories. Job one book, Tobias one book, Esdras two books, Esther one book, Judith one book, Machabees two books. Likewise the order of the writings of the New and eternal Testament, which only the holy and Catholic Church supports. Of the Gospels, according to Matthew one book, according to Mark one book, according to Luke one book, according to John one book. The Epistles of Paul [the apostle] in number fourteen. To the Romans one, to the Corinthians two, to the Ephesians one, to the Thessalonians two, to the Galatians one, to the Phillipians one, to the Colossians one, to Timothy two, to Titus one, to Philemon one, to the Hebrews one. Likewise the Apocalypse of John, one book. And the Acts of the Apostles one book. Likewise the canonical epistles in number seven. Of Peter the Apostle two epistles, of James the Apostle one epistle, of John the Apostle one epistle, of another John, the presbyter, two epistles, of Jude the Zealut, the Apostle one epistle."
Pope Damasus(regn A.D. 366-384),Decree of,Council of Rome,The Canon of Scripture(A.D. 382),in DEN,33

The entire canonized Bible was written by authors who claim direct inspiration from God which is the only reason that we can accept the Bible as perfect and completely infallible.

We believe the Bible is inspired because the Church teaches that it is. The Church predates the Bible, and it was the Church that collected the books written by her members, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, and formed them together in one volume.

As can be seen, the first list of the Bible which includes all the books we now have in it did not come out until the 380's AD. That means the Church existed for 350-plus years without an official Canon.

As St. Augustine said:

For MY PART, I should NOT BELEIVE the gospel except moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.

C. Epis Mani 5,6

God Bless,

Neal
 
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xristos.anesti

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Given that our fundamentalist protestant brethren (Jack Chick type) think that Church fell when Constantine "started worshiping Mary" in AD 312, or "Changed Christ for God of Sun" in 321, I always wondered how do they still keep the Bible.

Canon of the Books of the NT was not formulated until AD 395, which means that NT is the book of the "fallen Church"; that is, pagan church that changed Christ for God of Sun (Paganism) already for some 70-80 years...
 
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Fish and Bread

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With respect to some of our fundamentalist brothers and sisters in Christ, the idea that the true Church fell away is not the mainstream Protestant opinion. Most mainstream Protestants believe that the Church has existed from the time of Christ to the present in an unbroken line, but that some of the members of the Church have from time to time taught false doctrine which needed to be corrected. We can see examples of that very early on, for example when the Arian heresy had gained a lot of ground and had to be put down and then was definitively and finally rejected at the first Council of Nicea. Most Protestants view the Church as being all baptised people who gather in fellowship to pray, study the faith, and break bread together, thus encompassing many different earthly churches in one mystical body.

John
 
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CorTortilla

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That is not a form of magick. In Mass, we burn incense and do some other rituals that would be considered (and have been accussed by protestants) to be witchcraft, or magickal. They are not, though many witches do burn incenese while using their spells. The incense puts everybody into an elevated state of consiousness. that is why you may feel sleepier than usuall during Mass. There is nothing wrong with doing a ritual like that to ward off demons. It also depends on what your definition of "magic" is. If I were to take a spiritualist indian fan and burn a candle like the ones we use in Mass and waft the fire in the south for good luck, would that be magick? It depends. Throughout the OT people have used techniques (sp?) that would commonly be considered related to witchcraft. Like Moses raising his arms and waving his staff around during a battle so the Israelites could defeat their enemies, or the Israelites "dowsing" to find water underground. It is veyr much different from sitting down with a dagger and a cauldron and chanting something like "Oh Goddess! Help me with my plight! Help me tonight! Help me to gain the ever-present Psychic Sight!" while throwing spices into the cauldron and reciting an ancient chant like "oo-maya Oooh La-ya Ohh maya ooh-laya".
 
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Fish and Bread

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I think the main thing that differentiates Christian mystical practices from witchcraft is that they are done by the command of God through the power of the Holy Spirit. For example, the Real Presence in the Eucharist, the excerpt mentioned from the Book of Tobit, and so forth are all actions commanded by God through which He acts in a miraculous way. Witchcraft is when one calls upon oneself or some spirit other than God at one's own whim in a way not commanded by God, which is a totally different thing from what we do.

Honestly, I've never understand why some folks can believe that Jesus walked on water and Moses (through God) parted the red sea -- or, heck, that God created the Earth -- and then find it so hard to believe Christ could make bread and wine his body and blood or that he could act through a fish to cast away a demon if He chose to. It seems to me that if God is omnipotent, then nothing is impossible when he is present. :)

John
 
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Fish and Bread

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As long as we're on the subject of Tobit, which just happens to be my favorite Old Testament book, I'm curious as to whether anyone else sees a strong romantic component to it. I really think it is very heart-warmingly romantic at times, and very inspirational, but whenever I say that people tend to look at me like I'm from Mars. ;) What do you all think?

John
 
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Fish and Bread

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isshinwhat said:
The reading from the OT for our sedding was from Tobit. :)

Was it this one?:

"Do not be afraid, for she was set apart for you before the world was made" -Tobit 6:18c (NRSV)

I used to have that as part of my signature file for a little while. It sounded like a really beautiful sentiment that I could envision having read at my wedding one day. :)

John
 
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isshinwhat

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Tobit 8:4-8

When the door was shut and the two were alone, Tobias got up from the bed and said, "Sister, get up, and let us pray that the Lord may have mercy upon us." And Tobias began to pray, "Blessed art thou, O God of our fathers, and blessed be thy holy and glorious name for ever. Let the heavens and all thy creatures bless thee. Thou madest Adam and gavest him Eve his wife as a helper and support. From them the race of mankind has sprung. Thou didst say, `It is not good that the man should be alone; let us make a helper for him like himself.' And now, O Lord, I am not taking this sister of mine because of lust, but with sincerity. Grant that I may find mercy and may grow old together with her." And she said with him, "Amen."
 
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