To the science haters out there this is not a thread for you.

sjastro · May 17, 2024

Tuur said:
Yet you have no problem using stereotyping in the post above, all because I pointed out that education does not prevent racism, thus the argument that racism is a function of ignorance is flawed. If that observation is offensive, call me a heretic;.

I suggest you try to comprehend my post instead of reading your bias into it.
Stereotyping is a human trait like looking for patterns in things that are not there and has very little to do with the education of the person.
Racism is a form of stereotyping as is sexism and anti-intellectualism, the point that you don't seem to be able to grasp is when there is an agenda to discredit a collection of individuals, stereotyping is a form a willful ignorance based on ad hominems where the facts are irrelevant.

Tuur · May 17, 2024

Stereotyping again. Ah, well.

AV1611VET · May 17, 2024

sjastro said:
Racism is a form of stereotyping as is sexism and anti-intellectualism, the point that you don't seem to be able to grasp is when there is an agenda to discredit a collection of individuals, stereotyping is a form a willful ignorance based on ad hominems where the facts are irrelevant.

Would excluding a midget from a group because there are just some things they can do that he can't be a good example?

HopeSings · May 17, 2024

Jesus wasn't a scientist. Science does both good and bad. Look at the environment and our water supply, it's contaminated with waste created by Science.

Science and politics create the problem then promised to fix it.

sjastro · May 17, 2024

Tuur said:
Stereotyping again. Ah, well.

Ah well you are either trolling or my attempts to make my position as simple as possible for you to comprehend has failed miserably.

Ophiolite · May 18, 2024

Tuur said:
Yet you have no problem using stereotyping in the post above, all because I pointed out that education does not prevent racism,

You seem to have just stereotyped education. The ability of education to eradicate, or prevent, the emergence of racism etc. would surely depend upon the nature of that education. Consequently your attempt to demonstrate that education does not prevent racism is left with a large hole in it. The only way that your argument makes sense is if you redefine education to mean "a system of teaching in which views I hold to be correct and good are transmitted to the student".

Tuur said:
Stereotyping again. Ah, well.

This was your response to @sjastro's post #42. I could see why you felt there was stereotyping in their earlier posts, but I've read #42 repeatedly and cannot see even the ghost of stereotyping. Could you point it out to me please?

Ophiolite · May 18, 2024

HopeSings said:
Jesus wasn't a scientist. Science does both good and bad. Look at the environment and our water supply, it's contaminated with waste created by Science.

Wrong. Science created the methods that led to the various forms of pollution and destruction as side-effects of the benefits. It was us - the general public, for the most part, who took advantage of those benefits and continued to ignore the side effects even when Science recognised them and pointed them out. Global warming isn't caused by Big Oil, but our insistence on flying half way across the world for a vacation, driving an SUV and eating avocado on toast even though we live in Munich.

Astrid · May 18, 2024

sjastro said:
Ah well you are either trolling or my attempts to make my position as simple as possible for you to comprehend has failed miserably.

"...not for you" sure worked like honey does as fly
repellent.

Astrid · May 18, 2024

Hans Blaster said:
I was raised in a religious household and it never occurred to me either.

Maybe it's not so self evident as some think.

HopeSings · May 18, 2024

Ophiolite said:
Wrong. Science created the methods that led to the various forms of pollution and destruction as side-effects of the benefits. It was us - the general public, for the most part, who took advantage of those benefits and continued to ignore the side effects even when Science recognised them and pointed them out. Global warming isn't caused by Big Oil, but our insistence on flying half way across the world for a vacation, driving an SUV and eating avocado on toast even though we live in Munich.

Science can be quite foolish at times. Religion as well.

Tuur · May 18, 2024

Ophiolite said:
You seem to have just stereotyped education. The ability of education to eradicate, or prevent, the emergence of racism etc. would surely depend upon the nature of that education. Consequently your attempt to demonstrate that education does not prevent racism is left with a large hole in it. The only way that your argument makes sense is if you redefine education to mean "a system of teaching in which views I hold to be correct and good are transmitted to the student".

This was your response to @sjastro's post #42. I could see why you felt there was stereotyping in their earlier posts, but I've read #42 repeatedly and cannot see even the ghost of stereotyping. Could you point it out to me please?

Odd. Pointing out that education isn't a universal panacea is a stereotypical view? Education is good for what it is. You wouldn't want a brain surgeon who hadn't gone to med school, yet going to med school would not necessarily change his or her views on race. If anyone wants to dismiss that as stereotyping education, have at it. Education seldom changes what's inside. For that you need a willingness to change. Education provides knowledge, but knowledge is of no use if it isn't applied.

If anyone wants to call that stereotype, have at it.

The stereotype I referred to is dismissing the above by applying a stereotype to me. Whatever. There's a marvelous feature called ignore, and I suggest any who consider my views stereotypical to make use of it. Wouldn't want to aggravate anyone.

AV1611VET · May 18, 2024

Tuur said:
There's a marvelous feature called ignore, and I suggest any who consider my views stereotypical to make use of it.

Why don't we all just put each other on IGNORE?

Then we'd all be ignore-ant.

Tuur said:
Wouldn't want to aggravate anyone.

You'd think as many times as they've been through peer review (or close to it), they'd be able to handle criticism.

Especially of their science.

Sometimes when people get on me about dissing some science theory, I just want to go find the people who went through the peer review process of that theory and ask them to come here and argue them down at their level of expertise.

I can say macroevolution is a joke, and they can call me everything but a door bell.

But it would be a different story if a Rhodes scholar in evolution said it was a joke.

Ophiolite · May 18, 2024

HopeSings said:
Science can be quite foolish at times.

Pehaps, but I cannot think of a single sound example. Do you have one? Notice, you said science - not scientists. I ask for an example of the former.

Ophiolite · May 18, 2024

Tuur said:
Odd. Pointing out that education isn't a universal panacea is a stereotypical view? Education is good for what it is. You wouldn't want a brain surgeon who hadn't gone to med school, yet going to med school would not necessarily change his or her views on race. If anyone wants to dismiss that as stereotyping education, have at it. Education seldom changes what's inside. For that you need a willingness to change. Education provides knowledge, but knowledge is of no use if it isn't applied.

If anyone wants to call that stereotype, have at it.

The stereotype I referred to is dismissing the above by applying a stereotype to me. Whatever. There's a marvelous feature called ignore, and I suggest any who consider my views stereotypical to make use of it. Wouldn't want to aggravate anyone.

I appear to have made a poorly written post, as my point has not carried. I would make a second attempt, but you appear to be taking umbrage at my simple expression of a contrary view point. I say that, since I can see no other reason for your "ignore" suggestion. It sounds that you are saying "It's my way, or the highway". If you are that sensitive perhaps I should take your advice.

HopeSings · May 18, 2024

Ophiolite said:
Pehaps, but I cannot think of a single sound example. Do you have one? Notice, you said science - not scientists. I ask for an example of the former.

Science is just man's wisdom. Don't be so serious about it.

Ophiolite · May 18, 2024

HopeSings said:
Science is just man's wisdom. Don't be so serious about it.

I mean no offence, but I think accuracy in statements is important and should be taken seriously. (I think man's wisdom is important., so I can't readily accept describing it as "just man's wisdom".) The scientific method has proven invaluable for gaining knowledge of the world. It is a self correcting system, where inaccuracies are detected and corrected. Egregious errors arise when the method is misapplied, or deliberatley corrupted, by scientists - their error, not that of Science. Is the method perfect? Certainly not, but for objective fact finding there is no better.

HopeSings · May 18, 2024

Ophiolite said:
I mean no offence, but I think accuracy in statements is important and should be taken seriously. (I think man's wisdom is important., so I can't readily accept describing it as "just man's wisdom".) The scientific method has proven invaluable for gaining knowledge of the world. It is a self correcting system, where inaccuracies are detected and corrected. Egregious errors arise when the method is misapplied, or deliberatley corrupted, by scientists - their error, not that of Science. Is the method perfect? Certainly not, but for objective fact finding there is no better.

Self correction? It's getting worse not better.

AV1611VET · May 18, 2024

Ophiolite said:
Pehaps, but I cannot think of a single sound example. Do you have one? Notice, you said science - not scientists. I ask for an example of the former.

From NASA:

Which is a bigger methane source: cow belching or cow flatulence?

sjastro · May 18, 2024

HopeSings said:
Self correction? It's getting worse not better.

Care to support this statement with facts.

HopeSings · May 18, 2024

sjastro said:
Care to support this statement with facts.

Look around. What's good? Is disease wiped out?

People hate each other as well. It's not getting better. Nothing is getting better or will get better.

To the science haters out there this is not a thread for you.

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