To sin or not to sin that is the question

[Jimlarmore]

Some of us here seem to intimate that sinning is something we can't have any impact on in our life. Sin is a natural consequence of being born on planet earth. It's in our nature, our genes, our very fiber as humans.

There are some here that say since this is the case that we cannot ever stop sinning even with Christ's power so why even try? This mind set lends very well with the idea or belief that the grace of Christ covers us and our intentional practice of sin even without confession and repentence. Those who seem to embrace this idea use some texts from Pauline epistles to support it but I believe they are misinterpreting what Paul is actually saying.

I want to challenge this idea based on some simple concepts and a few simple questions.

1. Is sin completely unavoidable in this life no matter what? If so why is this true and support that with the Bible.

2. Do we loose our ability to decide to sin or not when we are born human on this earth? If this is true support it with the Bible.

3. If #2 is false then can we choose not to sin when tempted? If so then support that truth with the Bible.

4. If #3 is true then how does that affect #1?

5. Can someone who practices intentional sin without confession and repentence be assured of salvation by being saved at some point in time? Please support Biblically.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

Some of us here seem to intimate that sinning is something we can't have any impact on in our life.

There are some here that say since this is the case that we cannot ever stop sinning even with Christ's power so why even try?

I would be interested in who says any of these things. That sin has no impact on our lives...that would be incredible considering disease crime and injustice.

And the why even try to stop sinning...that is certainly a new one. When you begin with such untruths how can you expect to come up with anything intelligent. Why not begin a discussion by saying that the unicorn tail hairs make better magic wands then Phoenix feathers.

But you can still prove me wrong just give us some examples of those: "Some of us here seem to intimate that sinning is something we can't have any impact on in our life." or "we cannot ever stop sinning even with Christ's power so why even try?"

Oh that first one is qualified that some intimate so that is no doubt based upon not what anyone says but on what someone wants to read into their statement. So we will grant you can't show that one the other however says that some here say we can't stop sinning so why try to stop sinning.

 

[JonMiller]

The issue isn't whether we should try to not sin or not try to not sin.

The issue is, how important is not sinning to our salvation?

JM

 

[OntheDL]

The issue isn't whether we should try to not sin or not try to not sin.

The issue is, how important is not sinning to our salvation?

JM

Do you think a practicing sinner can enter into heaven?

So if the question of sinning is important to our salvation, then Jim's questions are valid.

 

[JonMiller]

Do you think a practicing sinner can enter into heaven?

Yes.

JM

 

[NightEternal]

And the why even try to stop sinning...that is certainly a new one. When you begin with such untruths how can you expect to come up with anything intelligent. Why not begin a discussion by saying that the unicorn tail hairs make better magic wands then Phoenix feathers.

Bwahahahaha! Good one RC.

Man, how many times must this topic be hashed out here? Does anyone honestly think this thread will be any more successful than any of the countless others we have had on sinless perfection theology?

No, we go in circles and the outcome is that everyone stands firm guarding thier positions. And, much as I enjoy the inevitable derogatory, insulting charges of 'cheap grace' and 'lover of cherished sin' which will most certainly come as sure as I am sitting her typing, it is ultimately a pointless, futile endeavor that I do not desire to waste my time undertaking yet AGAIN. Covering the same ground over and over, doing the same thing repeatedly expecting different results. What is the definition of that?

IMO of course.

 

[Cribstyl]

Some of us here seem to intimate that sinning is something we can't have any impact on in our life. Sin is a natural consequence of being born on planet earth. It's in our nature, our genes, our very fiber as humans.

There are some here that say since this is the case that we cannot ever stop sinning even with Christ's power so why even try? This mind set lends very well with the idea or belief that the grace of Christ covers us and our intentional practice of sin even without confession and repentence. Those who seem to embrace this idea use some texts from Pauline epistles to support it but I believe they are misinterpreting what Paul is actually saying.

I want to challenge this idea based on some simple concepts and a few simple questions.

1. Is sin completely unavoidable in this life no matter what? If so why is this true and support that with the Bible.

2. Do we loose our ability to decide to sin or not when we are born human on this earth? If this is true support it with the Bible.

3. If #2 is false then can we choose not to sin when tempted? If so then support that truth with the Bible.

4. If #3 is true then how does that affect #1?

5. Can someone who practices intentional sin without confession and repentence be assured of salvation by being saved at some point in time? Please support Biblically.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Your premise is false with a motive. Noone here condones sin or say it has no impact?. I challenge you to prove it.

If we post or argue that God forgives sin then it's God's grace that renders the wages of sin as powerless over the lives of those who believes in Him.

Sin is not a consequence, it a choice, God showed us how Cain commited the sin of murder.

1. Is sin completely unavoidable in this life no matter what? If so why is this true and support that with the Bible.

all have sinned and all men sin. Truth is some sins are avoidable.

2. Do we loose our ability to decide to sin or not when we are born human on this earth? If this is true support it with the Bible.

No, Sin always is a willful act.

3. If #2 is false then can we choose not to sin when tempted? If so then support that truth with the Bible.

Sin is a willful act.


4. If #3 is true then how does that affect #1?

5. Can someone who practices intentional sin without confession and repentence be assured of salvation by being saved at some point in time? Please support Biblically.

No, not at all.

 

[reddogs]

Yes.

JM

Wow! I think some are gonna be surprised to see Lucifer and his entourage up in heaven again, after all, that 'stuff' they did was just 'sin'.......:o

 

[Jimlarmore]

I would be interested in who says any of these things. That sin has no impact on our lives...that would be incredible considering disease crime and injustice.

And the why even try to stop sinning...that is certainly a new one. When you begin with such untruths how can you expect to come up with anything intelligent. Why not begin a discussion by saying that the unicorn tail hairs make better magic wands then Phoenix feathers.

Actually RC I expected a bit more sarcasm from you so congratulations on your restraint and thanks. You are right no one has actually come right out and said why even try but that truth is woven between every statement of some who say you can't stop sinning, which you have made on a few occasions. It's integrally part of the weave and fabric of blatant narratives that attempts to throw away God's holy laws including the Sabbath.

But you can still prove me wrong just give us some examples of those: "Some of us here seem to intimate that sinning is something we can't have any impact on in our life." or "we cannot ever stop sinning even with Christ's power so why even try?"

Oh that first one is qualified that some intimate so that is no doubt based upon not what anyone says but on what someone wants to read into their statement. So we will grant you can't show that one the other however says that some here say we can't stop sinning so why try to stop sinning.

The bottom line for the motive of this thread is this. We can either choose to sin or not to sin. This can impact our salvation by us making that choice, and our ultimate destiny is really in our own hands. Christ is everything we need for salvation but things we do after we are saved can effect our salvation contrary to what some may propose.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[ricker]

Some of us here seem to intimate that sinning is something we can't have any impact on in our life. Sin is a natural consequence of being born on planet earth. It's in our nature, our genes, our very fiber as humans.

There are some here that say since this is the case that we cannot ever stop sinning even with Christ's power so why even try? This mind set lends very well with the idea or belief that the grace of Christ covers us and our intentional practice of sin even without confession and repentence. Those who seem to embrace this idea use some texts from Pauline epistles to support it but I believe they are misinterpreting what Paul is actually saying.

I want to challenge this idea based on some simple concepts and a few simple questions.

1. Is sin completely unavoidable in this life no matter what? If so why is this true and support that with the Bible.

2. Do we loose our ability to decide to sin or not when we are born human on this earth? If this is true support it with the Bible.

3. If #2 is false then can we choose not to sin when tempted? If so then support that truth with the Bible.

4. If #3 is true then how does that affect #1?

5. Can someone who practices intentional sin without confession and repentence be assured of salvation by being saved at some point in time? Please support Biblically.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

I too think the origional assumption is faulty, at least in this "formers" case.

I hate sin! My sin is the reason my Saviour had to die on the cross. I can't wait till my corruptable puts on incorruption.

I don't want to sin. I hate it when I do (usually afterwards), but you know what, for some reason I still manage sometimes.

The thing is, my sins won't keep me from heaven. Jesus paid the price for my salvation. This salvation has no qualifications as it is by grace through faith in Christ. Through the indwelling of the Spirit I have become a new being and am not led to act as I did before. My relationship with God brings fruits, good things I do through Christ to spread the Gospel and help other people.

The main point of contention I seem to have with Adventists is if following the letter of the Mosaic covenant is still commanded. Is perceived breaking of certain commands given to the Israelites at Siani a sin? I have no problems discussing the applicability of laws, but don't try to tell me I am dismissing sin as OK.
God Bless! Ricker

 

[OntheDL]

There are several theological issues I see in your post.

I too think the origional assumption is faulty, at least in this "formers" case.

I hate sin! My sin is the reason my Saviour had to die on the cross. I can't wait till my corruptable puts on incorruption.

I don't want to sin. I hate it when I do (usually afterwards), but you know what, for some reason I still manage sometimes.

The thing is, my sins won't keep me from heaven. Jesus paid the price for my salvation. This salvation has no qualifications as it is by grace through faith in Christ.

The salvation is unconditional, then why the majority of the people will not be in heaven?

And if in fact, there is no qualifications for salvation then why the following scriptures state otherwise?

Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified

James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Through the indwelling of the Spirit I have become a new being and am not led to act as I did before. My relationship with God brings fruits, good things I do through Christ to spread the Gospel and help other people.

Agree, when one is born again, he/she becomes a new creation, walks in the newness of life. You said the holy spirit will lead you to act differently from before. But why do you not believe it can lead you to act differently on all points?

So when you do manage to sin, do you believe the holy spirit can also lead to victory over those sins eventually?

The main point of contention I seem to have with Adventists is if following the letter of the Mosaic covenant is still commanded. Is perceived breaking of certain commands given to the Israelites at Siani a sin? I have no problems discussing the applicability of laws, but don't try to tell me I am dismissing sin as OK.
God Bless! Ricker

Well, God never made a covenant with a gentile. When we become Christians, we become spiritual jews, adopted.

The new covenant does not do away with the 10 commandments, but rather write them on our hearts vs wrote them on the stones in the old covenant.

If the 10 commandments were written by the finger of God, and are stored in Ark of Covenant in heaven, then when do they expire?

Didn't Jesus say it's easier for heaven and earth to pass way than for one tittle of the law to pass?

 

[sentipente]

The salvation is unconditional, then why the majority of the people will not be in heaven?

Says who? You must be careful about making conclusions that depend on ignoring parts of the Bible.

 

[Jimlarmore]

The thing is, my sins won't keep me from heaven. Jesus paid the price for my salvation. This salvation has no qualifications as it is by grace through faith in Christ. Through the indwelling of the Spirit I have become a new being and am not led to act as I did before. My relationship with God brings fruits, good things I do through Christ to spread the Gospel and help other people.

The main point of contention I seem to have with Adventists is if following the letter of the Mosaic covenant is still commanded. Is perceived breaking of certain commands given to the Israelites at Siani a sin? I have no problems discussing the applicability of laws, but don't try to tell me I am dismissing sin as OK.
God Bless! Ricker

It's not me telling you anything about this it's the word of God. 1John3:4 tells us that sin is the transgression of God's law. So, if sin is defined as the transgression of God's law and that law is the ten commandments then when you are dismissing that so called debunked law you are also dismissing the sin's this law defines. Let's be totally honest shall we? All of this dialog about the law revolves around the controversy over the 4th commandment. No one has any problems with any of the others to my knowledge.


God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

Actually RC I expected a bit more sarcasm from you so congratulations on your restraint and thanks.



The bottom line for the motive of this thread is this. We can either choose to sin or not to sin.

Thank you Jim I do so enjoy being slapped before receiving a complement. (That is sarcasm).

If I believed the bottom line was that we could either choose to sin or not sin then I would be proved wrong by the entire history of man, from the Bible to today. Unless you can show us someone who is successful at choosing not to sin. So far the only one we know of who did that Was Jesus who is God in human form and if it was His purpose to show us that we could simply choose not to sin then He failed miserably. Of course there are sins of omission which come about by not choosing and then there is the idea that Paul but forth that even good things can be sin if they are done apart from faith.

So I understand why you have to begin with a fallacious argument. However no matter your intention it is a sin. But don't worry I don't believe God only saves those who don't sin anymore.

 

[Jimlarmore]

Thank you Jim I do so enjoy being slapped before receiving a complement. (That is sarcasm).

Your welcome partner I do so much enjoy dialoging with guys like you. This reminds me of Carm and intenet infidels. ( that was sarcasm back )

If I believed the bottom line was that we could either choose to sin or not sin then I would be proved wrong by the entire history of man, from the Bible to today. Unless you can show us someone who is successful at choosing not to sin. So far the only one we know of who did that Was Jesus who is God in human form and if it was His purpose to show us that we could simply choose not to sin then He failed miserably. Of course there are sins of omission which come about by not choosing and then there is the idea that Paul but forth that even good things can be sin if they are done apart from faith.

So I understand why you have to begin with a fallacious argument. However no matter your intention it is a sin. But don't worry I don't believe God only saves those who don't sin anymore.

So let's get this straight, based on what you say above you support the idea that we are totally helpless to avoid sin based on our past history as humans maybe? So when we decide to comit sin it's not really a conscious decision on our part after all? Care to explain?

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[OntheDL]

Says who? You must be careful about making conclusions that depend on ignoring parts of the Bible.

13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.


And how many were saved from the flood? Eight!

I know you think all will be saved.

 

[JonMiller]

Wow! I think some are gonna be surprised to see Lucifer and his entourage up in heaven again, after all, that 'stuff' they did was just 'sin'.......:o

I don't know about angels. But for humans, we just must beleive in Christ and we are saved. His righteousness covers our sinfulness.

JM

 

[Jimlarmore]

I have to go until tuesday folks. I don't have a computer at home yet since we had the fire. I do want to wish everyone a very happy Sabbath and God bless each one of you.

Jim Larmore

 

[OntheDL]

I don't know about angels. But for humans, we just must beleive in Christ and we are saved. His righteousness covers our sinfulness.

JM

then how do you reconcile with these verses?

1 John 3
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

Y

So let's get this straight, based on what you say above you support the idea that we are totally helpless to avoid sin based on our past history as humans maybe? So when we decide to comit sin it's not really a conscious decision on our part after all? Care to explain?

Certainly it is not always a conscious decision. Sometimes it is a mere repetition of our past actions as in the immediate anger at another driver who cuts us off. Then there are times when we make our choices and deliberate and it turns out we were wrong. (rather like your theological views ) There are multitude ways of sinning since sin is basically an attitude of selfishness and that can occur with or without a conscious decision.