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To Didaskalos
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- Jun 13, 2002
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I think Svt4Him. . .because diddy is one of the most knowledgable and experienced in this areaSvt4Him said:
TO ALL OTHERS: Let's keep this thread debate free
Thank you.
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I apologize Svt4Him if I gave you the impression that I would appreciate no answer but from Didaskalos. That was not what I intended. I know well this is an open forum, and all threads are open. Please let me hear from your heart. Thanks and my apology again.
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- Jun 6, 2002
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I am humbled at your request.iktca said:
I am not an expert in this area dear friend, and have not really been called to teach this message. All I know is what is plain and simple in scriptures.
I have been dirt poor (negative income), and I have been almost rich (6 figure income). And in both instances I found that my bank account had nothing to do with my relationship with God. It was really a non-issue.
What you are looking for is this:
1 John 3:16-17 KJV
16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
The question is where are you in this? Are you seeing the poor, feeling compassion toward them, and withholding goods?
How do you define "the world's good"?
When I was in my 20s, I was only making 12k-15k year. I had 4 kids, the wife , etc all on my youthful shoulders. Did I have anything to give to anyone? Not really. We did, but certainly not a lot. Sometimes it was only a dollar or two to some needy bro who was worse off than I. I discovered faith and the goodness of God in my late 20s and began to just believe what He said. It took a lot of effort to get rid of the religious dogma that gets pushed at us all the time. I was very much like what you are talking about. People pushing the idea that poor = good, rich = bad. This is not what the word says. The word says if you love money then that is bad. You do not have to be rich to love money! Some of the worst offenders have no money at all.
Do you love money? An easy test is what you read above. If you have the love of God in you, you will help those poor in your sphere. When you find a Christian family that is going to have their power cut off because of non-payment... what do you do? I will leave that to you and your heart. I know what we have done whenever it was reasonable and proper. You have to use wisdom. There have been cases where a person claimed they needed money for food and we knew they were going use it for "other" purposes. We would feed them, of give them groceries, or some other thing that did not involve just giving them money.
In our church when a person stood up for prayer regarding some bill that needed paying, half the time the brothers would just reach into their wallets, take an offering, and pay the bill. Easy.
I have know beautiful Christians who live in mansions who make 8 figure incomes. They have the love of God gleaming from them. I also know poor people who were so bitter and resentful that they brimed with darkness.
One reason some in these boards do not accept what I say about many of these things is that they do not accept the idea that the spirit of Christ in you (that you received when you were born again) is perfect in love. It is always trustworthy, and can always be followed. If you believe that the spirit of Christ in you is not trustworthy, then you will always be hesitant to follow the leading. God gave us this perfect spirit so that we could walk with Him free of fear, condemnation, and guilt.
If you are following your spirit (which is not you, but is the spirit of Christ that is living in you) regarding the needs of the poor around you, then there is nothing for you to feel guilty about. You are doing the will of God from the heart, and you are free. Tell the devil to take a leap.
Peace
Dids
We are going to see "The Passion of the Christ"
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crystalpc
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When I was a child in Kindergarten our teacher told us not to let the older kids take anything from us.
One day as I was eating my lunch, which was 1 potted meat and cracker sandwich, a first grade boy came up to me and asked if he could have half of the sandwich? I said no because I remembered Ms MaKenna's admonition. That evening when we rode home from school my sister told me that this boy had come to school with no lunch again. His mother was in the TB sanatorium, she had just lost his baby brother to TB. That was why his clothes was always dirty and unpatched.
I immediately became ashamed, I did not tell her about him asking for half of my cracker sandwich, or that I refused to share my lunch with him. It bothered me every time I thought of it.
When I was 7 I went to Sunday School and the teacher talked about the rich man and Lazuraus, this scared me to death! I had done the same to Tommy! But still I did not confess it, and felt ashamed.
I tried to avoid thinking about what I had done, I had a couple of nightmares about it but wouldn't tell anyone what I was afraid of, or what the nightmare was even about.
Then one night when I was 9 years old, Daddy asked us in our bedtime stories what our favorite scripture was, I told him with tears, that mine was the rich man and Lazarus although it scared me because I knew I was going to hell. He asked why, and for the first time since it happened I confessed what I had done in Kindergarten 4 years before.
I thank God daddy used wisdom that night instead of laughing, he asked me if you knew he was hungry would you have given him half of the sandwich? I told him with tears that if I knew he was hungry I would have given him the whole thing. He said I know if you pray about it God will forgive you. I did and felt a lot better. Daddy explained to me that we were not rich..but that did not mean anything to me at the time, or even now.
In our school many had fine lunches, sliced bread peanut butter and jelly, and fruit and cakes. It did not dawn on me then, or later that we were poor too, that most days we had biscuits and apple butter, or potted meat and crackers when we were lucky. My dad raised us alone, our mother and he was divorced.
God used this to teach me a valuable lesson, riches are comparative, we may not have been rich, but we were richer than Tommy and his family. I had potted meat and cracker sadwich, he did not.
Later in life we lived in a neighborhood considered the worst in our area, we owned our home and bought there because we could afford it. We also sponsored an indian child who lived in a 1 room hut with a mud floor. I couldn't send him pictures of us in front of our house, that we took before church on Sunday because of the same reason. We were rich in comparison, and I felt ashamed.
True prosperity comes from the Lord he said that he takes pleasure in our prosperity of his servants. I don't ever want to forget how rich I am, although we don't live in the biggest house, or the finest neighborhood, although God wouldn't mind if we did as long as we remembered it was he who gave us the power to obtain it. We are blessed of God, and I have always felt rich!
One day as I was eating my lunch, which was 1 potted meat and cracker sandwich, a first grade boy came up to me and asked if he could have half of the sandwich? I said no because I remembered Ms MaKenna's admonition. That evening when we rode home from school my sister told me that this boy had come to school with no lunch again. His mother was in the TB sanatorium, she had just lost his baby brother to TB. That was why his clothes was always dirty and unpatched.
I immediately became ashamed, I did not tell her about him asking for half of my cracker sandwich, or that I refused to share my lunch with him. It bothered me every time I thought of it.
When I was 7 I went to Sunday School and the teacher talked about the rich man and Lazuraus, this scared me to death! I had done the same to Tommy! But still I did not confess it, and felt ashamed.
I tried to avoid thinking about what I had done, I had a couple of nightmares about it but wouldn't tell anyone what I was afraid of, or what the nightmare was even about.
Then one night when I was 9 years old, Daddy asked us in our bedtime stories what our favorite scripture was, I told him with tears, that mine was the rich man and Lazarus although it scared me because I knew I was going to hell. He asked why, and for the first time since it happened I confessed what I had done in Kindergarten 4 years before.
I thank God daddy used wisdom that night instead of laughing, he asked me if you knew he was hungry would you have given him half of the sandwich? I told him with tears that if I knew he was hungry I would have given him the whole thing. He said I know if you pray about it God will forgive you. I did and felt a lot better. Daddy explained to me that we were not rich..but that did not mean anything to me at the time, or even now.
In our school many had fine lunches, sliced bread peanut butter and jelly, and fruit and cakes. It did not dawn on me then, or later that we were poor too, that most days we had biscuits and apple butter, or potted meat and crackers when we were lucky. My dad raised us alone, our mother and he was divorced.
God used this to teach me a valuable lesson, riches are comparative, we may not have been rich, but we were richer than Tommy and his family. I had potted meat and cracker sadwich, he did not.
Later in life we lived in a neighborhood considered the worst in our area, we owned our home and bought there because we could afford it. We also sponsored an indian child who lived in a 1 room hut with a mud floor. I couldn't send him pictures of us in front of our house, that we took before church on Sunday because of the same reason. We were rich in comparison, and I felt ashamed.
True prosperity comes from the Lord he said that he takes pleasure in our prosperity of his servants. I don't ever want to forget how rich I am, although we don't live in the biggest house, or the finest neighborhood, although God wouldn't mind if we did as long as we remembered it was he who gave us the power to obtain it. We are blessed of God, and I have always felt rich!
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enoch son
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How can one say only the gospels please? Before Jesus came He set up our priesthood even before levi was born. YOU ARE A CHOSEN RACE,A ROYAL PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, GOD OWN POSSESSION. You have not because no one as taught you how ask and move in the grace of the priesthood. 1 peter 2-4-10
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- Jun 13, 2002
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Crystal,
I was very touched by your story.
I know that I personally have struggled some with what Jesus said about giving to all who you don't just see in need but also those who ask. I know that if I don't have it obviously I'm not able to obey that command. But when I do have it. . .then what?
I've heard some teaching in the church that we must be discerning and not just give with the possibility of adding to that persons problems, but I don't see that teaching in scripture. Many times as diddy has done, instead of just handing them money I bought food. Of course we can give things other than money as well.
One time in my church the Holy Spirit led in a night of giving. I had nothing and I was praying Lord, what can I give? The Lord showed me that I could make something. I got up and said, I am a knitter and I would be happy to knit whatever is wanted, you would just have to buy the yarn. Within a few minutes, one person offered to buy the yarn for me to make a baby blanket for a lady in the church who had just had a baby. Then another person added money above and beyond for the yarn. . .they knew it was more than necessary but they told me to keep the excess.
I have been in the position myself where some unfairly judged my need and proceeded to inform me how misshandling of my finances I was. Even though they knew none of the details, in their mind they were operating on discernment. I remember how it hurt and even still hurts and I concluded that I never wanted to be that source of hurt for someone else.
If I have it. . .I tend to say God, what do you want me to do? He's never told me to not do something. Even if it was just something little.
That is why I want to get out of debt. So I can help others.
I was very touched by your story.
I know that I personally have struggled some with what Jesus said about giving to all who you don't just see in need but also those who ask. I know that if I don't have it obviously I'm not able to obey that command. But when I do have it. . .then what?
I've heard some teaching in the church that we must be discerning and not just give with the possibility of adding to that persons problems, but I don't see that teaching in scripture. Many times as diddy has done, instead of just handing them money I bought food. Of course we can give things other than money as well.
One time in my church the Holy Spirit led in a night of giving. I had nothing and I was praying Lord, what can I give? The Lord showed me that I could make something. I got up and said, I am a knitter and I would be happy to knit whatever is wanted, you would just have to buy the yarn. Within a few minutes, one person offered to buy the yarn for me to make a baby blanket for a lady in the church who had just had a baby. Then another person added money above and beyond for the yarn. . .they knew it was more than necessary but they told me to keep the excess.
I have been in the position myself where some unfairly judged my need and proceeded to inform me how misshandling of my finances I was. Even though they knew none of the details, in their mind they were operating on discernment.
I remember how it hurt and even still hurts and I concluded that I never wanted to be that source of hurt for someone else. If I have it. . .I tend to say God, what do you want me to do? He's never told me to not do something.
Even if it was just something little.That is why I want to get out of debt. So I can help others.
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crystalpc
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Quaffer
Praise God! that he has dealt with his children so intimately. He is a good and glorious God. I know the hurt you must have felt. It is imperietive that we use our gifts and resources to relieve pain, rather than be a source of it. I think that this early lesson although bitter at the time, was what the Lord intended to groom in me a very important gift. He does heal and make even our bitterest of experiences sweet.
I remember the shame I felt everytime I thought of what I had done, before I confessed it to my Dad. That confession helped bring about a healing of its own.
Praise God! that he has dealt with his children so intimately. He is a good and glorious God. I know the hurt you must have felt. It is imperietive that we use our gifts and resources to relieve pain, rather than be a source of it. I think that this early lesson although bitter at the time, was what the Lord intended to groom in me a very important gift. He does heal and make even our bitterest of experiences sweet.
I remember the shame I felt everytime I thought of what I had done, before I confessed it to my Dad. That confession helped bring about a healing of its own.
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Trish1947
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It seems like God uses the least to bless the most. I used to live in Reno, Nevada, where the promises of riches are in blazing neon everyday. And the train comes right down the middle of the street and lets the disinfrachised off everyday. I had a ministry on the street corner there when they used to let us do that sort of thing. People walking on all sides of you looking for those riches from one turn of the dice. One day I was having such a hard time of it, spiritually.. I was being yelled at to get off the street, they would throw my tracks back at my face, call me names, it would be relentless, but the Lord would send those that would listen. That day, I was feeling really down, saying to God is this worth it, I dont have any money to help people, this is all I know what to do. I wanted to start a feeding program for the needy, but there was just never enough money. That day, I prayed, Lord I dont have much but let me help someone with their need today. As the train pulled into town and stopped, alot of down and out people got off the train. I noticed this one man that was clean shaven, dressed fairly well, didn't look at all like the others. For some reason he made eye contact with me, and started walking at a very fast pace right to me. He said you are a Christian arent you. I said yes I am. He said can I ask you for one thing? I said sure, if I am able. He said can I have a cup of coffee? I said if you are hungary I would be glad to get you something to eat, he said no, all I want is a cup of coffee. I said well lets go in here, it was a snack bar. I bought him the coffee, and he thanked me over and over, and I said are you sure I cant buy you something to eat. He said no this is fine. We said goodbye to each other. And I thought that was the end of it. When I went back to our little corner ministry I saw this man walking about a block up from our corner, One of the ministers with me, looked shocked out of his eyes and said you will never know what just happened. I said what? He said see that man down there, I said yes, I just bought him some coffee, Then he said look at this? He had a check in his hand, it was for 10,000 from a merchandising company back east. It was just enough to fill the food pantry for the needy..
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Iktca, My father in law started the ministry i now preach for and serve in various capacitys.. He was a former cpa and very business oriented, an entreupener. On paper a millionare.. If you look at what his income is you would not imagine such.. He does a lot of work with financial counseling, is in a wheelchair and has health issues. Yet this man pours himself into peoples lifes daily.. For the work of Christ he puts his life on the line daily. He had a quadruple heart bypass last summer which led him to slow down which brought my wife and i down here. Christ first, family second.. Since being here i see the very practical things of ministry such as meeting peoples needs..
One of dads favorite scriptures is "he that lendeth to the poor lendeth to the LORd and the LORD will repay.. i too struggle with being to materially oriented..
Didaskalos very good teaching on whether money has you or you have money.
Right now my wife is out of work because of the birth of our second child, i am wrestling with getting a job to stay ahead or keep serving the LORD full time in prayer and waiting upon Him. It is a struggle not to go and seek a position but i have felt that i will honor the LORD and trust him. Now that being said, there are sacrifices that will have to be made.. And a tight budget.. I might have to balance my checkbook.. Money does help as you can always send the wife shopping with sisters if a little extra privacy for communion or warfare time is desired.. Im in a much better mood when i can enjoy a lunch out with my wife..
Equating time with money is one of the things dad is always preaching. Another is the value of good teaching.. His heart is that if he paid 500 for one seminar that is a good investment. His library is extensive and he lends books which are often not returned..
One of my favorite scriptures is Isaiah 58. depicting the kind of fast GOD wants..
One of dads favorite scriptures is "he that lendeth to the poor lendeth to the LORd and the LORD will repay.. i too struggle with being to materially oriented..
Didaskalos very good teaching on whether money has you or you have money.
Right now my wife is out of work because of the birth of our second child, i am wrestling with getting a job to stay ahead or keep serving the LORD full time in prayer and waiting upon Him. It is a struggle not to go and seek a position but i have felt that i will honor the LORD and trust him. Now that being said, there are sacrifices that will have to be made.. And a tight budget.. I might have to balance my checkbook.. Money does help as you can always send the wife shopping with sisters if a little extra privacy for communion or warfare time is desired.. Im in a much better mood when i can enjoy a lunch out with my wife..
Equating time with money is one of the things dad is always preaching. Another is the value of good teaching.. His heart is that if he paid 500 for one seminar that is a good investment. His library is extensive and he lends books which are often not returned..
One of my favorite scriptures is Isaiah 58. depicting the kind of fast GOD wants..
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