To DeSantis: "It's About the First Amendment, Stupid"

[DaisyDay]

Florida, like many other states, has abortion legislation on the ballot this election, Amendment 4. Florida's governor decided to place his thumb on the scales to keep the pro-choice advocates from publicizing their points. Floridians Protecting Freedom are running an ad promoting Amendment 4, but the Florida Department of Health sent a cease and desist letter to TV stations threatening legal action if they continued to run the ads.

Results varied with at least one station not running the ads but with others continuing.

DeSantis threatens to prosecute Florida TV stations over abortion ad

The ad features a brain cancer patient who supports a November ballot measure that would broaden access to abortion in Florida.

www.adn.com

The state agency’s letter is the latest example in which DeSantis’ administration has used taxpayer resources to defeat Amendment 4. In recent months, the governor has engaged in an all-out war against the abortion measure with the help of state agencies, which critics have accused of pushing the legal boundaries between campaign politics and state duties.​

‘It’s the First Amendment, stupid’: Federal judge tells Florida Gov. DeSantis to stop threatening TV stations over abortion amendment ads

The Florida Department of Health sent letters threatening to criminally prosecute television stations if they did not stop running an ad that features a woman named Caroline who was diagnosed with brain cancer two years ago while pregnant with her second child.

www.adn.com

In a sharply worded ruling on Thursday, U.S. District Judge Mark Walker rebuked the DeSantis administration for trying to quash what he called constitutionally protected political speech.​

​

“To keep it simple for the State of Florida: it’s the First Amendment, stupid,” Walker wrote....

​

Wilson warned that if television stations did not take down ads, they would be committing a second-degree misdemeanor, which carries a sentence of up to 60 days imprisoned or a fine of up to $500. At least one station, WINK-TV, stopped running the ad, according to Walker.​

 

[durangodawood]

I think Americans are increasingly OK with curtailing the liberty of others so long as their particular viewpoint is favored by the state.

 

[DaisyDay]

Here is the ad in question:

 

[Vambram]

I think Americans are increasingly OK with curtailing the liberty of others so long as their particular viewpoint is favored by the state.

I think that pro-abortion Americans are increasingly in favor of attempting to control the narrative in order to facilitate the choices of people who desire to kill unborn babies.

 

[durangodawood]

I think that pro-abortion Americans are increasingly in favor of attempting to control the narrative in order to facilitate the choices of people who desire to kill unborn babies.

Not by using force of law against anti abortion speech.

 

[Pommer]

I think that pro-abortion Americans are increasingly in favor of attempting to control the narrative in order to facilitate the choices of people who desire to kill unborn babies.

I think that pro-choice people would agree that their point-of-view shouldn’t be sequestered by a state law restricting their ability to espouse such views.

 

[probinson]

The ad is misleading. There are exceptions to the abortion law that would certainly apply in the very specific situation in the ad. So the claim that abortion would not be available to the women whose life was in jeopardy is somewhat misleading.

That said, I disagree with DeSantis here. As I've said before and I will say again, I am far more concerned with government censorship than I am with misinformation. To that end, I support people's right to make misleading statements. The correct response to misinformation is correct information, not censorship.

 

[DaisyDay]

The ad is misleading. There are exceptions to the abortion law that would certainly apply in the very specific situation in the ad. So the claim that abortion would not be available to the women whose life was in jeopardy is somewhat misleading.

That said, I disagree with DeSantis here. As I've said before and I will say again, I am far more concerned with government censorship than I am with misinformation. To that end, I support people's right to make misleading statements. The correct response to misinformation is correct information, not censorship.

Agreed.

Women are dying from scared doctors and hospital administrators delaying treatment of women for fear of punishments enacted by legislators. We have seen that both maternal and infant death rates have risen in the states with the most restrictive, punitive abortion laws.

 

[probinson]

Women are dying from scared doctors and hospital administrators delaying treatment of women for fear of punishments enacted by legislators. We have seen that both maternal and infant death rates have risen in the states with the most restrictive, punitive abortion laws.

Citation needed.

Maternal mortality rates appear to have risen in the last 20 years in the US. But this reflects a change in measurement rather than an actual rise in mortality.​

Look at reported maternal mortality rates in the United States, and you’ll see an alarming rise since the early 2000s.​

​

This rise has been widely covered in the media. See a 2023 article on Scientific American: “Why Maternal Mortality Rates Are Getting Worse across the U.S.” Or a report on National Public Radio (NPR): “The number of people dying in the U.S. from pregnancy-related causes has more than doubled in the last 20 years.” It has, understandably, been a big concern among the public.​

​

But researchers have shown that this rise does not represent an actual increase in the number of women dying in childbirth. Rather, it is the result of a change in measurement that was gradually introduced in the US between 2003 and 2017.​

​

The rise in reported maternal mortality rates in the US is largely due to a change in measurement

Maternal mortality rates appear to have risen in the last 20 years in the US. But this reflects a change in measurement rather than an actual rise in mortality.

ourworldindata.org

​

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Maternal mortality rates appear to have risen in the last 20 years in the US. But this reflects a change in measurement rather than an actual rise in mortality.

The increases in maternal mortality postdate the change in measurement methods outlined in this article. Apparently, all states were utilizing the checkbox by 2017. However, Texas saw a sharp increase in mortality in 2020 and 2021 (even excluding COVID-related deaths).

Maternal deaths surged in Texas in 2020, 2021

Even excluding deaths related to COVID, Texas’ maternal mortality rate spiked, reversing two years of improvement.

www.texastribune.org

https://www.dshs.texas.gov/sites/default/files/legislative/2024-Reports/MMMRC-DSHS-Joint-Biennial-Report-2024.pdf

 

[probinson]

The increases in maternal mortality postdate the change in measurement methods outlined in this article. Apparently, all states were utilizing the checkbox by 2017. However, Texas saw a sharp increase in mortality in 2020 and 2021 (even excluding COVID-related deaths).

Your article says this:

Since the most recent case analysis is from 2020, it does not reflect any impact from changes to Texas’ abortion laws.​

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Your article says this:

Since the most recent case analysis is from 2020, it does not reflect any impact from changes to Texas’ abortion laws.​

It doesn't reflect impacts from the 2021 abortion ban, but Texas has instituted quite a few restrictions on abortions since the early 2000s. Notably, for the purposes of this discussion, 2017 and 2019 both had major bills affecting abortions and abortion access.

How today’s near-total abortion ban in Texas was 20 years in the making

Since 2000, Texas lawmakers have reduced the number of abortions in the state by restricting access to the procedure.

www.texastribune.org

Furthermore, my point was primarily to show that your explanation for the increase did not apply, as states like Texas have continued to see increases even after adopting the pregnancy checkbox on their death certificates.

 

[probinson]

It doesn't reflect impacts from the 2021 abortion ban, but Texas has instituted quite a few restrictions on abortions since the early 2000s. Notably, for the purposes of this discussion, 2017 and 2019 both had major bills affecting abortions and abortion access.

How today’s near-total abortion ban in Texas was 20 years in the making

Since 2000, Texas lawmakers have reduced the number of abortions in the state by restricting access to the procedure.

www.texastribune.org

Furthermore, my point was primarily to show that your explanation for the increase did not apply, as states like Texas have continued to see increases even after adopting the pregnancy checkbox on their death certificates.

I think the broader point here is that there are countless confounders in maternal death rates that are difficult to account for. Those who are pro-abortion like to point to any increase in maternal death rates as proof that restricting abortion access is the cause. However, as your article states, the data you presented "does not reflect any impact from changes to Texas' abortion laws".

People are quick to assume causality when it confirms their preconceived ideas.

 

[DaisyDay]

This thread is about the Florida governor’s First Amendment overstep. There are plenty of other threads that discuss the devastating effects of extreme prohibitions.

 

[rambot]

I think that pro-abortion Americans are increasingly in favor of attempting to control the narrative in order to facilitate the choices of people who desire to kill unborn babies.

Why would you post this in a thread arguing, with evidence, the exact opposite?
Go start a thread talking about that somewhere else.