Tithing

[Ginny]

Hello everyone...

As a Christian that is a member of a Baptist church, I would like to know what Baptists feel about tithing (the literal word). I was on a recent thread in which someone stated (with scriptural reference) that tithing is no longer necessary due to it being from the OT, but that "giving" to God is acceptable as your heart and Holy Spirit guides you, but in no way is necessary if you are not led to. Perhaps I have been wrong to call it tithing...my husband and I give approx 10% (out of routine ) and then what has been called "offerings" to those in need, revivals, youth camp, etc....but no matter what you call it we will always give out of love and a sense of obedience b/c God has called us to do so. Should we no longer call it tithing? Is giving absolutely necessary? How can God lead me to do so but not the next person? I know it does not determine salvation, but for the Christian that does not "drink milk" would it seem necessary..that we would both come to the same conclusion?

 

[seebs]

It's not tithing. The tithe is an OT practice to support the Levites; also, in fact, they got about 3.3%, not 10%; they got the tithe every third year. The other two tithes were an offering to God.

[bible]Deuteronomy 14:22-29[/bible]

You only actually gave the food away one year in three; the others, you "gave it" to God by eating it in a holy place, or by buying whatever made you happy!

Reread that:

[bible]Deuteronomy 14:26[/bible]

Anyway... We have no tithe, and to call it the tithe plays into the false teachings of certain ministers who try to portray it as a moral duty that you should give this much to the church. Much legalism abounds; you get arguments over whether it's enough to give 10% of post-tax money, or whether it must be pre-tax, or whether you should also give 10% of tax refunds, and... It gets silly.

To give money away, whether to the church or to other charities, is a good thing. If you feel so called, then do so. But it is not a tithe.

... As to why God might call some to give more or less than others, I have some thoughts on this. Different people have different moral weaknesses. For one person, giving up a great deal of money may help him realize that the money was a distraction from his faith. For another person, taking joy in abundance may help him be grateful to God.

If God had only wanted one kind of person, Eve wouldn't have had kids.

 

[Terri]

Good post Seebs!!

 

[GreenEyedLady]

Ginny,

My husband and I are faithful tithers. We do not ponder over the "gross or net" thing. We tithe on our increase. Anything increased is tithed on. God has blessed us tremendously for our obedience and our faithfuless. Most of us are in local new testement churches. I just do not see how I can sit at a pew, listen to my pastor preach, and think...............oh, he just deserves $5 today. I believe that giving of your increase, your firstfruits is important. Its all God's anyway.
Well, that is how I see it. I have discussed with others as you ahve about this. I believe its a heart problem with most who do not want to give 10% away.
GEL

 

[SteveR2021]

Great topic.

I think Seebs is correct in saying that tithing is an OT practice. The NT is much more demanding. Under the New Covenant ALL of our money belongs to God. This is a drastic shift from the OT concept. When we recognize that our money is God's our spending habits will inevitably change.

The question is no longer: How much of my money should I give to God?

The question now is: How much of God's money should I spend on myself?

I believe it is appropriate to give to the church. Paul says the pastors are worthy of their hire. How they get paid is less important (in my mind) than that they get paid. If they base their salary off of voluntary donations parishioners should feel compelled to give as they feel led.

There are many ways that we can spend our money on God besides the church. Yes we should give to the church, but we should also give elsewhere. Remember that Paul encourages the Corinthians to give of what they have not what they don't have...God doesn't want us to suffer - but sacrificial giving is definitely celebrated in the New Testament (see the story of the poor widow).

Our way of thinking on this is what is most important. God promises to provide for our needs (not our wants) and Paul encourages us to be content with what we have...there's a whole lot of room there for generous and sacrificial giving.

Rather than ask how much we should give we should endeavor to give away as much we can (while responsibly caring for our families).

Excellent topic. I look hearing from others on this one.

 

[Gentileone]

Hi all

Stefan i kinda agree, also i feel that a pastor should be paid for we should not muzzle the Ox.

But i am concerned why ppl allways think that tithing is about money.
God has just showed us that tithing money is what we should do but also out time/worship to him.
God wants and is calling his ppl to a deeper lvl for the future outpuoring of the spirit.
Lets look at Paul he said im glad i speak more in tongues then you all, Paul also says many times to keep praying all the time.
For the perfect example look at Jesus he prayed all night.
Tithing to God in worship is Just as important and, well lets face requirement IF you want a deeper walk and for the rivers to flow out.
How did Paul write under the annionting , by being in the spirit how did he get into the spirit by praying in the spirit.

We see there are so many ways to tithe and giving money is not the only way to tithe.
Also i say again we should not muzzle the Ox.

God Bless
Ps i hope you dont mind me posting in here!

 

[SteveR2021]

But i am concerned why ppl allways think that tithing is about money.
God has just showed us that tithing money is what we should do but also out time/worship to him.
God wants and is calling his ppl to a deeper lvl for the future outpuoring of the spirit.
Lets look at Paul he said im glad i speak more in tongues then you all, Paul also says many times to keep praying all the time.
For the perfect example look at Jesus he prayed all night.
Tithing to God in worship is Just as important and, well lets face requirement IF you want a deeper walk and for the rivers to flow out.

AMEN!!! You are dead on. Our time also belongs to God and we are TERRIBLE wasters (i invented that word) of time. In fact there is no greater gift that we can give God than our time.

That would make an excellent post. That has been heavy on my mind lately.

God Bless you.

 

[Gentileone]

That would make an excellent post. That has been heavy on my mind lately.

Amen

I hear from quite a few ppl from all over the world and God is doing this same thing to all of us,
Whats God upto, i believe hes getting ready to do something.
Why is God calling ppl into a deeper worship from all over.
Im so glad to be a part of God's plans.
Yea i agree and me especially a terrrible waster of time , but im changing this
now im gonna be a terrible time giver to God

"That the Lamb that was slain might receive the reward of His suffering!
what can i say but;
AMEN AMEN AMEN

God Bless

 

[Andyman_1970]

Hello everyone...

As a Christian that is a member of a Baptist church, I would like to know what Baptists feel about tithing (the literal word). I was on a recent thread in which someone stated (with scriptural reference) that tithing is no longer necessary due to it being from the OT, but that "giving" to God is acceptable as your heart and Holy Spirit guides you, but in no way is necessary if you are not led to.

I was on the thread you mentioned – the literal word tithe means “tenth” but it is defined in the Torah as to what it was a “tenth” of. That tenth comprised of grain/produce/animals – no where in the Scriptures does the tithe “switch” from being grain/produce/animals to currency. BTW currency was available even in Abraham's day, so the argument that they tithed what they had (meaning it was only grain/produce/animals) is historically and culturally incorrect.

BTW, seebs did an awesome job of explaining the tithe.

Perhaps I have been wrong to call it tithing...my husband and I give approx 10% (out of routine ) and then what has been called "offerings" to those in need, revivals, youth camp, etc....but no matter what you call it we will always give out of love and a sense of obedience b/c God has called us to do so.

Praise God for your awesome testimony regarding your giving.

Should we no longer call it tithing?

If you want to be Biblically accurate I wouldn’t call it tithing.

As a Baptist we believe in full immersion baptism, correct? Why is that? Because it’s what the work baptizmo means, and from various hints from the Scriptures we understand that people went under and came up out of the water. So our belief of full immersion baptism is based on our desire to be Biblically accurate, correct?

So then why the double standard with the concept of the tithe as it is defined in the Bible – why do we as Baptists strive to be accurate with one portion of the Text and they twist and manipulate another portion of the Text (Malachi 3:10 comes to mind).

Is giving absolutely necessary?

It’s not necessary, but the life of a follower of Jesus according to the Scriptures should be marked by generosity and taking care of the needs of those around us.

How can God lead me to do so but not the next person? I know it does not determine salvation, but for the Christian that does not "drink milk" would it seem necessary. that we would both come to the same conclusion?

Doesn’t God deal with each of us differently? Did He create us all the same or did He make us all unique? Read Romans 14, that helped me deal with why people were not on the “same page” as me on certain issues.

Remember John 13:34-35 – Jesus’ command to love each other and that’s how we’ll be known. Your brother or sister in the faith may or may not give as much as you, but that doesn’t mean we get to judge them or look down our nose at them – God deals with each of us differently and we are each at different stages in our spiritual journey.

BTW – please don’t equate non-tithers with non givers, the most generous people I know are those who don’t tithe – I have seen these people give cars and houses away to people who are in need (nice ones I might add).

 

[Andyman_1970]

. I believe its a heart problem with most who do not want to give 10% away.
GEL

Since I've been a member of a few churches that preached (more like enforced) the tithe - I believe the "problem" is that to assert that somehow followers of Jesus are bound by the tithe today in the year 2005 is Biblically inaccurate and technically a false teaching.

BTW - my "problem" is not with giving the money, it's with the false teaching regarding tithing - my family uses the model outlined by John the Baptist for our giving "The man who has two tunics should share with him who has none, and the one who has food should do the same" - which if you look at percentages it figures more like 50% than "just" 10%.

 

[JustinWindsor]

'seebs' and I don't see eye to eye on everything, but his reply in post #2 in this thread was a very Scriptural answer to the question of tithing as a New Testament believer. Tithing is Old Covenant. Stefan in post #5 sheds further light on the New Testament example in giving.

Bless you brothers.

 

[Andyman_1970]

Tithing is Old Covenant.

Not to mention the fact that in God's Holy infaliable, inspired Word the tithe is never defined as currency.

 

[seebs]

It's not defined as currency, but if all you have is currency, and you were tithing (say, if there were some Levites around), I guess that's what you'd give them; ten percent of your increase. Note that increase isn't income; it's profit.

If you lived too far from church to bring 10% of the increase of your herds, you could bring money, but that's a little specialized.

Still... This was essentially similar to income tax, and served the same role; it covered things like the equivalent of the welfare system.

The question of whether people give, or how much, is a difficult question to discuss openly, what with the injunction against discussing our alms too much. All I'll say is that I have a hobby of suing junk faxers, and I give all that money away. It's not really part of "my" income, but then, I'm not making enough to live on right now.

 

[Andyman_1970]

It's not defined as currency, but if all you have is currency, and you were tithing (say, if there were some Levites around), I guess that's what you'd give them; ten percent of your increase. Note that increase isn't income; it's profit.

My question is, if as an Israelite you did not produce a crop or animals, did you tithe? I can find no indication of tradespeople (metal worker for instance, or carpenter) and requirements for them to tithe...........I could be wrong however.

 

[eldermike]

The OT tithe was not voluntary, it was in fact controlled by a Theocracy. I agree with the post here that states that the NT system is a higher standard. But, it's also commanded. The church is given to certain tasks. Among theses are; sending out missionaries, feeding the poor, temporary lodging the traveling Christians, taking care of widows, helping the helpless and on and on. In all these cases the NT church provided money, food, shelter, people, much like the government does today. God knew our hardened hearts and love for money, He raised up governments. Governments collect His money, feed His poor and shelter those that need shelter. We just need to prepare our answer, we will need it one day.

 

[seebs]

Well, the way the early church did this stuff is by essentially running as a commune.

I don't think there were many Hebrew tradesmen back when the Law was first written, but I think "increase" is clear enough. If you had a hundred cattle one year, and the next year you had a hundred and twenty, the "increase" is twenty cattle.

So, if I were trying to apply that to other lines of work, I'd probably think in terms of profit. The interesting thing here is that it's not at all clear how to calculate "profit" on regular employment... If you're raising cattle, you might eat one and then it's not profit, but expenses.