tithing?

[blessed2]

Can we discuss tithing please.
In the traditional denomination churches, you bring tithes and give it to the church.
I read a book written by hasidic? jewish ladies.
It spoke of tithing as something given to aid others in need or to an organization that will benefit the community. Which sounded more true to me than tithing to buy a new cadillac for the preacher.
You see, I am obedient in tithing and I want to utilize that the way G-d wants me to as a steward of His (whatever He intrusts me with.)

So, example:
You are asked to take in a homeless orphan. This child has no clothes, toothbrush....whatever things they need etc. Could one or should one use tithe money to provide for this child the things they need to take care of their immediate needs?
Is this considered providing for the needy or not.

I'm interested in the tithing subject although I do find myself in this very position.

I wait for your instruction.
Thankfully,
Laura

 

[Hix]

haha Tithing is anothing mitzvah regarding Tzedakah aka charity, almost every single Jew gives to charity as the Tanach repeats quite often how important it is. Some however differ on how they do it, I keep whats called a pushke, a box for collecting coins for the poor, and coins are routinely placed in the box (and I have yet to raid it when deperately out of coins lol ).

Its just my opinion, but the ideal of tithing has been taken completely out of context by the church. One should note its probobly one of the only mitzvah they hold to, why? Well if used properly it means that every congregant feels obliged to give 10% of their income towards the church. Im not saying theres anything wrong with that, most Shuls have a box were you can place a free will gift in it if you wish but the meaning of Tzedakah has been lost. Tithing or Tzedakah was always ment to be given to be either given to aid others in some way, or to a group that would aid others or the community etc. For the most part it should in some way, benefit the poor.

Giving to the poor is an obligation in Judaism, a duty that cannot be forsaken even by those who are themselves in need. Some sages have said that tzedakah is so important that a person who does not perform tzedakah is equivalent to an idol worshipper. And even more interesting is that traditional Judaism believes the spiritual benefit of giving to the poor is so great that a beggar actually does the giver a favor by giving a person the opportunity to perform tzedakah/tithing.

Shabbat Shalom and G-d bless
~Hix~

 

[Henaynei]

what do you see as the difference between tithe and alms??

 

[Hix]

Who are you asking? lol

 

[Henaynei]

Who are you asking? lol

Who wishes to answer??

 

[blessed2]

what do you see as the difference between tithe and alms

Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

Is Alms an offering?
Ok, I'll try.....if alms is an offering, then it would be anything above the 10 percent that we are required. An offering from the heart?
I Separate my tithe at the end of each week and add an offering.

Too, The child in question was taken from her parents (who were both imprisoned)by the state and had been in the state fascillities for 10 years.....un-educated, abused, etc. The mother is married to a distant relative. She ended up back with her mother and has been with her for only 7 months.
I just met the mother for the first time and she abandoned this now 16 yr old with me ( a stranger) a left the state.
She has no clothes....nothing.
It is another person to provide for but I feel a spiritual obligation to provide love, stability, etc for her. I cannot turn her away.
May I use my tithes and offerings to get her clothing? Or should I find another means to provide these for her.
I pray that I can be a good steward to what G-d has placed in my hands and I don't want to do anything wrong.

 

[blessed2]

P.S. I don't need constant help with her.....just the lump sum to provide her with clothes to start.....pants, shirts, underware, bra's, socks, shoes, nightgowns.
But I will not use my tithes if this is not right to do so.

 

[Henaynei]

Have you sought other avenues for the $$ first?? Have you let your faith community know of the need?

Also, if you got to the Salvation Army in your area they may well be albe to let your "daughter" go on a bit of a "shopping" expedition at little or no cost if you present the situation to them. Much like thy have been known to do when someone's home and belongings are burned.

 

[blessed2]

Have you sought other avenues for the $$ first?? Have you let your faith community know of the need?

I'm hoping that I can provide the means myself although I'm concerned as she really has nothing and I must provide so much just to start her off....however, I will not
use my tithes if it is not ok to do so.
As far as my community of faith.....you guy's here in the forum are my community of faith which is why I rely on your guidance and thoughts so much.

As always, I am grateful for your guidance thoughts and ideas.
Laura

 

[Henaynei]

my view:

Although it is very popular for ministers, priests, pastors and even rabbis to claim the tithe - the tithe went to the Temple - and the Temple is no more, yet.

There even was a tithe that you were supposed to set aside and (I think) every three years you were to essentially party before the L-rd with wine and good food.

The church, fellowship and synagogue should be supported by offerings and we should give alms to the poor.

Since the closest we can come to a Temple right now is another human being, then using the money set aside for serving G-d could reasonably be used to provide essentials for someone in dire need.

Hopefully others will share their opinions also

 

[blessed2]

I am so grateful for your patience, guidance and wisdom in all my many questions.
Please spare a prayer for me that I not only provide for her physical needs but am able to supply her with all that the L-rd wishes me to impart.....and with this responsibility that He has intrusted into my care that I deal with it in a way that will glorify Him.

 

[Henaynei]

It is a large and weighty task - He is more than equal to it!! LEAN on Him

 

[1Faith1]

I too have questions concerning tithing.

First of all, there's the tithe (10%) of the land, seed of the land or fruit of the tree, plus herds--basically all one's possessions (Leviticus 27:30-33).

Next, there's the tithe of one's produce for the Feast of Tabernacles (Dt. 12)

Then, there's the tithe every third year for the Levites, widows, orphans and strangers (Dt. 14)

Then, in Malachi 3:10, there's the storehouse. Storehouse in Hebrew, according to Strong's Concordance means depository, treasury, armory, cellar, garner (to gather up and store) or storehouse. The word tithe in this text means a part or a tenth in Hebrew. The verse is as follows:

Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be food in My house, and prove Me now by it, says the Lord of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enought to receive it. (Amplified Version)

Also with regard to storehouses, Genesis 41:56-57 says, “When the famine was over all the land, Joseph opened all the storehouses and sold to the Egyptians; for the famine grew extremely distressing in the land of Egypt. And all countries came to Egypt to Joseph to buy grain, because the famine was severe over all the earth.”

Genesis 41:36 states, “And that food shall be put in store for the country against the seven years of hunger and famine that are to come upon the land of Egypt, so that the land may not be ruined and cut off by the famine.” The Hebrew for “store” in this verse is to deposit, keep or store. (Amplified version and use of Strong’s Concordance and )

Leviticus 26:9&10 reads, “For I will look on you favorably and make you fruitful, multiply you and confirm My covenant with you. You shall eat the old harvest, and clear out the old [store] because of the new.” (NAS, with “store” from Amplified version)

So, my questions are these:

1. What is a tithe today? Is it money? Is it food? Is it a tenth of something we produce? Is it a tenth of all we possess at a given time?
2. Where and to whom do we give? If we're attending a Messianic synagogue or congregation, perhaps this is easy to answer, but if we're in a small home fellowship then the answer is not so simple.
3. How often should we give? Every three years to those in need? Every year? Every month? Every week?
4. Is there essentially a 20% tithe per year (not including Malachi's tithe) and then an extra 10% every three years?
5. And, of course, tzedakah is a gift offering that is above and beyond the tithe and on-going, whenever we see a need, correct?
6. And what about the storehouse mentioned in Malachi? Was that a one-time special situation for storing up food or is that a model for giving tithes continuously? And, again, what is a storehouse in today's terms? Is it a special "rainy day" fund for congregations perhaps? Is it perhaps monetary gifts that ought to be kept only for the congregation and not given to outside groups (like charities or other church's missionaries, etc.)?

Thanks so much for your input on this topic. I really look forward to hearing your comments.

 

[blessed2]

I can't answer this but I'm very excited that that you've joined the thread and posed such great questions.

 

[captainjon]

Hi,

I really believe that we should reassess tithing and giving today, and understand what the meaning was in the Old Testament.
It was given to support the Levites who should dedicate themselves to the
temple, and was also there to provide food for sacrifices in the temple and this I believe is why there is such a stern warning in Malachi because sacrifices were not being made to atone for their sins, hence the cursing.
Jesus became a curse for us on the cross to take away curses.
I personally tithe, but only because I believe that God wanted me to, and this was a personal decision despite my belief that tithing is not *required* to be righteous, but became a matter of conscience.

BTW I think Malachi's reference to bring *all* of the tithe is not to bring all of the 10% which doesn't make sense as "10%" is pretty definative, but to bring all of the TITHES which include tithes to the poor and is more like 20%. It makes me laugh when preachers say how not bringing all of the tithe is bringing a curse on you, because they're actually pronouncing a curse on themselves by not doing it. No it's not funny.

What do I think instead? Firstly that all of what we have belongs to God. Secondly, that we should give according to what we have decided in our heart, not in relation to what we have, need or even want. Lastly, I really believe that the world needs to see a church that is concerned about giving to the poor and needy, especially those that are not in your area. This is God's heart not just to save, but to help the least of our bretheren (see sheep and goats passage). In doing so, people will start to see the church as it should be and not as some self-serving club for middle-class people.

Jon

 

[simchat_torah]

I have a friend who was a Rabbi in Alaska (he recently moved to California... gee, I wonder why? )

Anyway, he has written a rather large article on "tithing" in the Tenach, what it meant, how we are to continue in this practice, etc.

I think we all would benefit from it. I'll try to contact him and see if he can email to me.

shalom,
yafet

 

[Henaynei]

I have a friend who was a Rabbi in Alaska (he recently moved to California... gee, I wonder why? )

Anyway, he has written a rather large article on "tithing" in the Tenach, what it meant, how we are to continue in this practice, etc.

I think we all would benefit from it. I'll try to contact him and see if he can email to me.

shalom,
yafet

I would definately like to read that!!

 

[debi b]

Deut 14:22 - 29

You shall truly tithe all the produce of your seed, that the field brings forth year by year.

And you shall eat before the Lord your God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of your grain, of your wine, and of your oil, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks; that you may learn to fear the Lord your God always.

And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry it; or if the place is too far from you, which the Lord your God shall choose to set his name there, when the Lord your God has blessed you;

Then shall you turn it into money, and bind up the money in your hand, and you shall go to the place which the Lord your God shall choose;

And you shall bestow that money for whatever your soul desires, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatever your soul desires; and you shall eat there before the Lord your God, and you shall rejoice, you, and your household,

And the Levite who is inside your gates; you shall not forsake him; for he has no part nor inheritance with you.

At the end of three years you shall bring forth all the tithe of your produce in that year, and shall lay it up inside your gates;

And the Levite, because he has no part nor inheritance with you, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are inside your gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your hand which you do.

Can you imagine what it would be like if the entire country descended on your town for a period of a week (the duration of a festival). If the individual didn't provide for himself it would be crazy - even with the grocery stores we have today. We are absolutly to help those in need (without measure in my opinion), but I do see a difference in the intent of a tithe.

 

[SeekingTorah]

Hi,

BTW I think Malachi's reference to bring *all* of the tithe is not to bring all of the 10% which doesn't make sense as "10%" is pretty definative, but to bring all of the TITHES which include tithes to the poor and is more like 20%.
Jon

How does one calculate an additional 10% “tithe” for the poor, the orphan and the widow ? Where is this mentioned in scripture outside of Malachi ? I do not see this at all in the words of Malachi. Thank you.

I patiently await the lesson from S_T’s Rabbi (friend) in California.

Shalom,

Yasmine

 

[SeekingTorah]

Hi,

This is God's heart not just to save, but to help the least of our bretheren (see sheep and goats passage). In doing so, people will start to see the church as it should be and not as some self-serving club for middle-class people.
Jon

Jon,

Forgive me, as I am learning right along side you and am in no way attempting to debate. But the act of tzedakah is not a cooporative mitzvah (commandment), but a mitzvah that each individual is to keep. I do not think the following verses are to Israel as a whole-but to each person as a representative of Israel. Thus, if each believer in Yeshua Messiah (whether Christian or Messianic) adhered to this mitzvah individually, then the church as a whole would appear to those from outside as honoring this mitzvah even though it is the individual believers. Clear as mud-huh...

The scripture you referred to regarding goats and sheep:

Yeshua said:

32 "All the nations will be gathered R956 before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as R957 the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on R958 His right, and the goats on R959 the left. 34 "Then the King will say to those on His right, `Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit R960 the kingdom prepared for you from R961 the foundation of the world. 35 `For I R962 was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I R963 was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, R964 and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited R965 Me; I R966 was in prison, and you came to Me.' 37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, `Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38 `And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39 `When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' 40 "The R967 King will answer and say to them, `Truly I say to you, to R968 the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.' Matthew 25:32-40 (NAS)

Here are several scriptures referencing providing for the orphan, widow and alien amongst the people:

Deuteronomy 10:18-19 (NAS)
18 "He executes justice for the R410 orphan and the widow, and shows His love for the alien by giving him food and clothing. 19 " R411 So show your love for the alien, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt.

Deuteronomy 24:19-22 (NAS)
19 " R747 When you reap your harvest in your field and have forgotten a sheaf in the field, you shall not go back to get it; it shall be for R748 the alien, for the orphan, F367 and for the widow, in order that the LORD your God may R749 bless you in all the work of your hands. 20 " R750 When you beat your olive tree, you shall not go over the boughs again; F368 it shall be for R751 the alien, for the orphan, F369 and for the widow. 21 "When you gather the grapes of your vineyard, you shall not go F370 over it again; it shall be for the alien, for the orphan, F371 and for the widow. 22 "You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt; therefore I am commanding you to do this thing.

The above scriptures sound like the act of tzedakah to me, nu? Moreover, that Yeshua was teaching how one is to honor the above Mitzvah.


Yeshua’s clarification, again of Torah:

Mark 12:29-31
28 One R425 of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing R426 that He had answered them well, asked Him, "What commandment is the foremost F215 of all?" 29 Jesus answered, "The foremost is, `HEAR R427 , O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD; 30 AND R428 YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.' 31 "The second is this, `YOU R429 SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these." 32

n And is found in Torah:
n
Deuteronomy 6:4-9 (NAS)
4 " R253 Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD R254 is one! 5 " R255 You shall love the LORD your God with R256 all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. 6 " R257 These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart. 7 " R258 You shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up. 8 " R259 You shall bind them as a sign on your hand and they shall be as frontals F99 on F100 your forehead. 9 " R260 You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.

Exodus 20:16-17
16 " R685 You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. R686 17 " R687 You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you R688 shall not covet your neighbor's wife or his male servant or his female servant or his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor."

There are many more scriptures (mitzvot) regarding one’s neighbor.

Shalom,
Yasmine