Tithing Quandry, Please help!!

Micky123 · Mar 6, 2017

Sketcher said:
We are to forgive, but we are not to enable a pattern of bad behavior. Scripture speaks specifically to this man as you have described him:

Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us. For you yourselves know how you ought to imitate us, because we were not idle when we were with you, nor did we eat anyone's bread without paying for it, but with toil and labor we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you. It was not because we do not have that right, but to give you in ourselves an example to imitate. For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat. - 2 Thess 3:6-10

As to your country, which country are you from?

Thank you for your reply. I am from India. I did go through the scripture that you quoted and it appears quite clear that this behavior should not be acceptable. However, it does not specifically talk about children who are put in such a position by their parents.
I cannot regard the little one as the one who is being spoken to, because she is the one who is actually suffering for the idleness of her parents. We are to warn them as mentioned in the bible, and then keep away. Well... to be honest, we have been warning them since the beginning. We went so far as to tell the girl not to marry a guy who is just not willing to work and provide for himself, how would he look after her too? She was adamant and wanted to go ahead with the wedding. We warned them not to have kids for 3 years to give them time to settle down, again this advise was tossed out the window too! We advised him to save up for the delivery of the child, again this was tossed out the window. Now going by this scripture, we are supposed to stay away from them but then we are also called to forgive and forget as well.
I am sorry, but it looks like i am too soft for all this.

I do realize that all the answers i seek, may not be present in the bible, which is the reason i was looking for other brothers / sisters opinions on this situation.

JCFantasy23 · Mar 6, 2017

The topic isn't about whether tithing is right or wrong here. Please stick on topic to the original issue.

Sketcher · Mar 6, 2017

Micky123 said:
Thank you for your reply. I am from India. I did go through the scripture that you quoted and it appears quite clear that this behavior should not be acceptable. However, it does not specifically talk about children who are put in such a position by their parents.
I cannot regard the little one as the one who is being spoken to, because she is the one who is actually suffering for the idleness of her parents. We are to warn them as mentioned in the bible, and then keep away. Well... to be honest, we have been warning them since the beginning. We went so far as to tell the girl not to marry a guy who is just not willing to work and provide for himself, how would he look after her too? She was adamant and wanted to go ahead with the wedding. We warned them not to have kids for 3 years to give them time to settle down, again this advise was tossed out the window too! We advised him to save up for the delivery of the child, again this was tossed out the window. Now going by this scripture, we are supposed to stay away from them but then we are also called to forgive and forget as well.
I am sorry, but it looks like i am too soft for all this.

I do realize that all the answers i seek, may not be present in the bible, which is the reason i was looking for other brothers / sisters opinions on this situation.

There is another passage that is relevant:

"If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them." - Matt 18:15-20

It sounds like the first step has been exhausted. Try the second step, taking another person - trusted, but objective - with you to confront him. If he doesn't listen then, take it to the church.

I am of course not telling you to punish the child or ignore the child. If you can take custody of the child, or allow a more responsible next-of-kin to either the brother or his wife to do so, do it - this would give the child the best chance for proper care and success. What would it take under the law in your location in India?

rnmomof7 · Mar 6, 2017

Micky123 said:
I really have to ask this, i am unable to find answers and in a quandry right now. We are a couple married for 8 years and both of us are fairly well settled in life. We have almost paid off our mortgage on a small 1 BR flat and i do believe we have received the complete grace of god. We are a firm believer in tithing and have seen the kind of mess we can get into when tithing is not done. We also were a bit confused about tithing initially, but mustered the courage to speak with the local parish priest, who surprisingly confirmed that we could help the poor on our own from our tithes and it need not be put into the church collection boxes. Since then, we have been helping a lot of poor and needy people with the money entrusted to us by god.
We have also been taking care of my parents and her mother - Not from tithe, but from the remaining money we had left-over after paying the tithe. My firm belief is that these people do not deserve to be paid from tithe because they have us to look after them and gods money should not be used for this purpose.

Now this brings me to my quandry, my brother-in-law is a very lazy man and has changed jobs several times and stayed home for months in between jobs, we have tried as best we could to set him up to find jobs, but somehow he leaves them at the drop of a hat, he always blames the bosses and people around, but the fault is never his, ever! We have been paying him money over time, not huge amounts, because i firmly believe a man who is capable and well off in health should be able to earn his bread on his own. This guy decided to get married when he was in one of his long breaks, we tried to discourage the girl from marrying him saying that he does not have a settled job, but she was adamant and wanted to marry him. She said she was working and can help take care of the house, so we arranged and paid for his marriage. After marriage we counselled him and told him he needs to settle down now that he has a wife. He was ok for some time and then back to the usual routine. We specifically advised them both not to plan for kids for 2-3 years at least until they were steady in their jobs. What do you know, a year after the marriage he calls and says that his wife is about to deliver a baby, and he does not have money to pay for the delivery... here we go again spending money for the delivery, after this we end up spending money for the christening and 1st birthday too, inspite of telling him to earn and save for these events, he did not bother. He made us the god parents, and i am pretty sure he did so because he knows we are fairly devout and follow the bible and hence he could demand money in the name of the child anytime. Currently, both of them are un-employed and at home and he is asking for money again for rent and groceries, he is emotionally blackmailing us saying that we should buy diapers for his kid.

Now the whole issue is that since the baby is our god child, will it be right for us to provide the needs of the baby using tithe? I don't want to pay him anything from tithe because he is quite capable of working and earning a living but is too lazy to work. Another worry is, and i have seen this happen before, if we buy things for the baby, he goes and sells it back to the store for a lower price and uses the money to buy groceries and to pay the rent too sometimes. In such a situation, i really do not know what to do and looking for some help here. Our god child is important to us, but then her parents are like parasites that cling on to her.

rnmomof7 · Mar 6, 2017

Tithing is an OT law, we are no longer under the OT...Jesus fulfilled the law perfectly for us. The writers of the NT never instructed the NT church to tithe instead they told us be joyful givers

2 Corth 9:7 Every man according as he purposes in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loves a cheerful giver.

If you want to tithe then do it out of joy not requirement ...

If you choose to support your godchild do it. More importantly is as godparents to make sure the child is raised in the fear and admonition of God

Meowzltov · Mar 6, 2017

Micky123 said:
I really have to ask this, i am unable to find answers and in a quandry right now. We are a couple married for 8 years and both of us are fairly well settled in life. We have almost paid off our mortgage on a small 1 BR flat and i do believe we have received the complete grace of god. We are a firm believer in tithing and have seen the kind of mess we can get into when tithing is not done. We also were a bit confused about tithing initially, but mustered the courage to speak with the local parish priest, who surprisingly confirmed that we could help the poor on our own from our tithes and it need not be put into the church collection boxes. Since then, we have been helping a lot of poor and needy people with the money entrusted to us by god.
We have also been taking care of my parents and her mother - Not from tithe, but from the remaining money we had left-over after paying the tithe. My firm belief is that these people do not deserve to be paid from tithe because they have us to look after them and gods money should not be used for this purpose.

Now this brings me to my quandry, my brother-in-law is a very lazy man and has changed jobs several times and stayed home for months in between jobs, we have tried as best we could to set him up to find jobs, but somehow he leaves them at the drop of a hat, he always blames the bosses and people around, but the fault is never his, ever! We have been paying him money over time, not huge amounts, because i firmly believe a man who is capable and well off in health should be able to earn his bread on his own. This guy decided to get married when he was in one of his long breaks, we tried to discourage the girl from marrying him saying that he does not have a settled job, but she was adamant and wanted to marry him. She said she was working and can help take care of the house, so we arranged and paid for his marriage. After marriage we counselled him and told him he needs to settle down now that he has a wife. He was ok for some time and then back to the usual routine. We specifically advised them both not to plan for kids for 2-3 years at least until they were steady in their jobs. What do you know, a year after the marriage he calls and says that his wife is about to deliver a baby, and he does not have money to pay for the delivery... here we go again spending money for the delivery, after this we end up spending money for the christening and 1st birthday too, inspite of telling him to earn and save for these events, he did not bother. He made us the god parents, and i am pretty sure he did so because he knows we are fairly devout and follow the bible and hence he could demand money in the name of the child anytime. Currently, both of them are un-employed and at home and he is asking for money again for rent and groceries, he is emotionally blackmailing us saying that we should buy diapers for his kid.

Now the whole issue is that since the baby is our god child, will it be right for us to provide the needs of the baby using tithe? I don't want to pay him anything from tithe because he is quite capable of working and earning a living but is too lazy to work. Another worry is, and i have seen this happen before, if we buy things for the baby, he goes and sells it back to the store for a lower price and uses the money to buy groceries and to pay the rent too sometimes. In such a situation, i really do not know what to do and looking for some help here. Our god child is important to us, but then her parents are like parasites that cling on to her.

I'm going to give you a balanced view.

First, this is going to require some tough love. If your brother is to the point of selling back baby gifts, YOU CANNOT HELP HIM. You are only enabling him, which is unloving. He needs to wrestle with the consequences of his own behavior. If you do anything at all, offer to pay for therapy, and pay it direct. Debt Anonymous is free.

Second, your brother has issues. He is probably doing the best he knows how. And he probably does NOT like it that he isn't acting like a man -- I'm sure he wishes he had a great job and was self sufficient, but he feels trapped. His lifestyle is a bad habit, and people are helping him stay in that habit. So at the same time you are cutting off the purse strings, have sympathy and kindness.

If you spend money on your God-daughter, spend it on things he can't sell back, like ballet classes or piano lessons. This is better than buying her stuff anyway.

Whether you can use your tithe money or not, is really between you and the Lord.

Shempster · Mar 8, 2017

There is a much deeper message in the command to tithe. I am too tired to type it all up now, but here is the gist:
if you love money and possessions then you should tithe. If you do not, you are not required to tithe!
Having said that, if you do not love money and material possessions then you should freely share your wealth with ANYONE in need. Not just friends and family, but maybe even the homeless guy on the street who is obviously after beer money.
We are required to give. Love sets no percentage amount.

Bless up!

Micky123 · Mar 9, 2017

Shempster said:
There is a much deeper message in the command to tithe. I am too tired to type it all up now, but here is the gist:
if you love money and possessions then you should tithe. If you do not, you are not required to tithe!
Having said that, if you do not love money and material possessions then you should freely share your wealth with ANYONE in need. Not just friends and family, but maybe even the homeless guy on the street who is obviously after beer money.
We are required to give. Love sets no percentage amount.

Bless up!

Thank you for your post, yes i agree with helping everyone without any expectations of reward. We do a fairly decent job of tithing and also helping out people who really need it. Supporting family and the less fortunate around us seems to have become second nature now. What i do not like is people taking advantage of our good nature. I eventually gave in and sent out 2 and a half months worth of diaper supplies to my BIL and asked him to get off his lazy ass and find a job. I told him i will not be covering his rent or food bills and he should take care of them himself. He was demanding that i send him some groceries too, which i flatly refused to do. Now he complains to a cousin of mine and claims to have suicidal tendencies! This said cousin also helps him out when we have a tight situation, so it just looks like emotional blackmail to get his supplies from her since i denied! I shudder to think what if those tendencies are real though!

Shempster · Mar 9, 2017

Micky123 said:
Thank you for your post, yes i agree with helping everyone without any expectations of reward. We do a fairly decent job of tithing and also helping out people who really need it. Supporting family and the less fortunate around us seems to have become second nature now. What i do not like is people taking advantage of our good nature. I eventually gave in and sent out 2 and a half months worth of diaper supplies to my BIL and asked him to get off his lazy ass and find a job. I told him i will not be covering his rent or food bills and he should take care of them himself. He was demanding that i send him some groceries too, which i flatly refused to do. Now he complains to a cousin of mine and claims to have suicidal tendencies! This said cousin also helps him out when we have a tight situation, so it just looks like emotional blackmail to get his supplies from her since i denied! I shudder to think what if those tendencies are real though!

OK, now this situation makes it tricky. IMO, this person obviously is using you for money so must you help?
Well on one hand you are feeding his control addiction so that can't be good. One the other hand when its family you should help.
On the other hand (Shempy has 3 hands today) we must think of when Yeshua said if someone asks you for your shirt, give him your coat as well.
This seems a quandary and for those in your situation, it is. I suppose that the message on the sermon on the mount is that he was showing us the HIGHEST LEVELS OF LOVE. It was meant to be a target to shoot for. We want to be like the Father, but we really cannot be completely like Him, so we must take our personal love of others to the highest levels we can.
That is OUR test. The hope is that our love limits get pushed higher and higher over time. But you should not feel obligated.
To the abuser, it is a test as well. When you love them, they are experiencing the love of God. Their reactions to that love will be the focal point at the great judgement of God.
Its all about levels. Perhaps an evil person will feel Gods love and open up to it. Normally they are mostly just mad at the church because of a bad apple. Show them we're not all bad apples.

Bless up!

Tolworth John · Mar 10, 2017

If you are going to help be pracrical. Ensure that the family has the basic food needs. Arrange for bread or rice and some vegitables to be delivered. Don't give money only things like fod and encourage him to work and support his family.
If there is a Christian church near him see if they can oversee the delivery of basic fod stuffs to them and provide councelling etc for them.

Blade · Mar 10, 2017

Micky123... you guys really seem...forgive me ok? Getting your noses stuck in someones life. That being said.. its one thing to HELP yet.....are you helping as long as they do it YOUR way?

You ask and pray.. ask the Father of our lord Jesus Christ. Here.. you will get just what we see what we did in our own lifes and its not the same. JESUS IS REAL! Have FAITH! That when you pray for him that GOD heard you and WILL ANSWER! He can not lie. But if you doubt let not that man think they will get anything from God. God is REALLY good at what He does.. the best in fact.

There are so many things we can not see going on in people's lifes. We just see the out side. If you want to give.. then give and dont expect back. Want to help the baby. then help. Its not YOUR LIFE ..its theirs. Job...you keep praying a job will WILL WILL WILL open up that he will love will stay at <----that is from God.. praise you Father..

Have faith! God is really good at ...changing the heart So.. me.. I would give.. money..things.. help build.. and they ask..what do you want? Nothing.. what can we do? I DONT GIVE WHAT I SEE THINK.. nothing! Just take it.. love you.. what else can I do to help? Do you see? Love never thinks of its self. Have FAITH when you pray for them. GOD CANT LIE...

Something AWESOME WONDERFUL IS going to happen for them.. IN Jesus name!

joshua 1 9 · Mar 10, 2017

Micky123 said:
I really have to ask this, i am unable to find answers and in a quandry right now. We are a couple married for 8 years and both of us are fairly well settled in life. We have almost paid off our mortgage on a small 1 BR flat and i do believe we have received the complete grace of god. We are a firm believer in tithing and have seen the kind of mess we can get into when tithing is not done. We also were a bit confused about tithing initially, but mustered the courage to speak with the local parish priest, who surprisingly confirmed that we could help the poor on our own from our tithes and it need not be put into the church collection boxes. Since then, we have been helping a lot of poor and needy people with the money entrusted to us by god.
We have also been taking care of my parents and her mother - Not from tithe, but from the remaining money we had left-over after paying the tithe. My firm belief is that these people do not deserve to be paid from tithe because they have us to look after them and gods money should not be used for this purpose.

Now this brings me to my quandry, my brother-in-law is a very lazy man and has changed jobs several times and stayed home for months in between jobs, we have tried as best we could to set him up to find jobs, but somehow he leaves them at the drop of a hat, he always blames the bosses and people around, but the fault is never his, ever! We have been paying him money over time, not huge amounts, because i firmly believe a man who is capable and well off in health should be able to earn his bread on his own. This guy decided to get married when he was in one of his long breaks, we tried to discourage the girl from marrying him saying that he does not have a settled job, but she was adamant and wanted to marry him. She said she was working and can help take care of the house, so we arranged and paid for his marriage. After marriage we counselled him and told him he needs to settle down now that he has a wife. He was ok for some time and then back to the usual routine. We specifically advised them both not to plan for kids for 2-3 years at least until they were steady in their jobs. What do you know, a year after the marriage he calls and says that his wife is about to deliver a baby, and he does not have money to pay for the delivery... here we go again spending money for the delivery, after this we end up spending money for the christening and 1st birthday too, inspite of telling him to earn and save for these events, he did not bother. He made us the god parents, and i am pretty sure he did so because he knows we are fairly devout and follow the bible and hence he could demand money in the name of the child anytime. Currently, both of them are un-employed and at home and he is asking for money again for rent and groceries, he is emotionally blackmailing us saying that we should buy diapers for his kid.

Now the whole issue is that since the baby is our god child, will it be right for us to provide the needs of the baby using tithe? I don't want to pay him anything from tithe because he is quite capable of working and earning a living but is too lazy to work. Another worry is, and i have seen this happen before, if we buy things for the baby, he goes and sells it back to the store for a lower price and uses the money to buy groceries and to pay the rent too sometimes. In such a situation, i really do not know what to do and looking for some help here. Our god child is important to us, but then her parents are like parasites that cling on to her.

There is a term for this. It is called an enabler. Often if you were not a part of this dysfunctional relationship then there would be no relationship at all. You need to set up boundaries. (when to say yes and when to say no)

Tithing Quandry, Please help!!

Micky123

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Tithing Quandry, Please help!!

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