Tithing and blessings?

bbbbbbb said:

I've got you beat. I have been dutifully paying taxes for almost all of my life. I am taxed on my income, taxed on things I buy, taxed on things I sell, and I will be taxed for the privilege of dying. Interestingly, when totalled, my taxation far exceeds 10%, so I can't actually call it a tithe. If only my government was as lenient as that of the Old Testament.

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Render to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's.

Elder 111 said:

He is a God who gave us all and only request a 10th in return.

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I dare you to show scripture where God ever requested anyone a tenth of their income. If you can't find it in the scriptures, I guess you've been lied to.

Elder 111 said:

Render to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's.

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Yes, render to Caesar what is Caesar's - the coin WITH CAESAR'S IMAGE ON IT.

Render to God what is God's - WE were made in God's image, so God wants us.

Has NOTHING to do with tithing.

Elder 111 said:

Why would you think that?
We are to tithe increase as per the command. Our increase is what we are paid.
How many person worked other than on their own land at the time the command was given? How many banks and hotel etc. were present for persons to work in?

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Nope. Simply no scripture tells us to do so. NOT ONE.

GaryArnold said:

I have never tithed and I have been blessed beyond my wildest dreams.

Ephesians 1:3 (KJV) “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:”

The blessings are for all those who have faith in God and has NOTHING to do with tithing. God is not a slot machine where you put money in and expect blessings in return.

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Excellent. I especially like your last sentence.

Elder 111 said:

Why would you think that?

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Think what ? Please , be specific .

We are to tithe increase as per the command.

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What command ? Please , be specific . *I* am not mentioned in any tithe command .

Our increase is what we are paid.

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Not according to the tithe commands - the thread's subject . And , *I* am not mentioned in those commands . You are obviously taking "increase" out of context of the command .

You are also mistaken *concerning* increase . An increase is after all expenses . I would see what I have now and subtract what I had one year ago . *That* would be the increase . This brings up another way that you go against the command ... the tithe was given at certain times - not weekly or bi-weekly . This was yearly - once a year . None of the tithe commands were less than a year .

How many person worked other than on their own land at the time the command was given? How many banks and hotel etc. were present for persons to work in?

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That is not proof . You are going beyond what is written . The Lord is not short-sighted . There were those who would not have land and have certain jobs revolving around money . Even Jesus didn't think of going to money as a part of the tithe .

"At the time the command was given ?" Seriously ? The command was for all generations .

How much have you tithed to authentic Levitical priests - as per the command ? Have you properly gone to the festivals with your tithe to eat of that tithe at the place the Lord described - as per the command ?

GaryArnold said:

I dare you to show scripture where God ever requested anyone a tenth of their income. If you can't find it in the scriptures, I guess you've been lied to.

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Yep and they believe it to.

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tturt said:

They say there's more Scriptures about money than anything else in The Bible.

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And yet you NEVER find anywhere in the scriptures where it talks about tithing money.

Elder 111 said:

We are to tithe increase as per the command. Our increase is what we are paid.
How many person worked other than on their own land at the time the command was given? How many banks and hotel etc. were present for persons to work in?

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You have it wrong. The tithe was on GOD'S INCREASE of food from crops and animals, NOT man's increase from working.

Tithing came from the agriculture - the crops, and the tenth animal in herds and flocks. ONLY farmers tithed. There is no example of any other type of profession that tithed, nor are there any instructions for anyone else to tithe, yet they had various other occupations during that period of time.

Arts and Crafts: Ex. 31:3-5; 35:31-35; 2 Ki. 16:10

Baker: Gen. 40:1-2; Jer. 37:21; Hos. 7:4

Builder: 2 Ki. 12:11; 22:6; Ezra 3:10; Matt 21:42; Heb. 3:3; 1 Pet. 2:7

Carpenter: 2 Sam. 5:11; 2 Ki. 12:11; 2 Chr. 24:12; Ezra 3:7; Isa. 44:13; Matt. 13:55; Mk. 6:3

Cook: 1 Sam. 8:13; 9:23-24

Doorkeeper: 2 Ki. 22:4; 25:18; 1 Chr. 15:23-24; Jer. 35:4

Fisherman: Isa. 19:8; Jer. 16:16; Ezek. 47:10; Matt. 4:18; 13:48; Lk. 5:2

Foremen: Ruth 2:5-6; 1 Ki. 5:16; 2 Chr. 2:2, 18; Matt. 20:8

Fortune Teller: Deut. 13:1-3; Acts 16:16

Goldsmith: Neh. 3:8, 31-32; Isa. 40:19; 41:7; 46:6; Jer. 10:9, 14; 51:17

Hunter: Gen. 10:9; 25:27; Jer. 16:16

Innkeeper: Lk. 10:35

Mason - Stonemasons: 2 Sam 5:11; 2 Ki. 12:12; 1 Chr. 22:15; 2 Chr. 24:12

Merchant - Trader: Gen. 23:16; 37:28; 1 Ki. 10:15; Neh. 13:20; Ezek. 27:3, 22-23; Matt. 13:45

Musician: 1 Ki. 10:12; 1 Chr. 6:33; 9:33; 2 Chr. 5:12

Perfume Maker: Ex. 30:25, 33, 35; 37:29; 1 Sam. 8:13; Neh. 3:8

love-peddler: Gen. 38:15-24; Lev. 21:14; Josh. 6:17, 25; Judg. 11:1; 16:1; Jer. 3:1; Joel 3:3; Matt. 21:31-32; Lk. 15:30; 1 Cor. 6:15-16; Jas. 2:25

Scribe - Teacher of the law: 1 Chr. 2:55; 1 Chr. 24:6; 27:32; Neh. 8:1; 13:13; Jer. 36:26; Matt. 2:4; Mk. 2:6; Acts 4:5 (They did not tithe on any income from being a teacher or lawyer.)

Silversmith: Judg. 17:4; Prov. 25:4; Acts 19:24

Spinning - Weaving: Ex. 28:3; 35:25-26; 2 Ki. 23:7; Prov. 31:19; Acts 9:39

Stonecutters: 1 Ki. 5:15; 2 Ki. 12:12; 1 Chr. 22:15

Supervisor: 2 Chr. 31:13; 34:17

Tanner: Num. 31:20; Acts 9:43; 10:6, 32

Tax Collector: Dan. 11:20; Matt. 10:3; Lk. 5:27

There is NO example of any of the above tithing from the income they made, nor was there a provision in God's well-defined tithing command. The command to tithe was not a principle, it was a law, to be followed as it was written.

winslow said:

For the record the tithe was not soley for distribution to the priests, it was also for the stranger, the widows and the orphans.

The question wasn't whether you accept the principle of tithing, it was does the Lord promise a blessing on those who do? The bible does indeed promise blessings for those who declare their faith in this manner and is evidenced through the testimony of those that do.

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THE FIRST TITHE
Leviticus 27:30-33 defines this tithe as a tenth of crops and animals in herds and flocks.
Numbers 18 gives the ordinances, or instructions, for this tithe, and commands this tithe be taken to the Levites.
Purpose of this tithe: to support the Levitical Priesthood.

SECOND TITHE
Deuteronomy 14:22-27: aka The Festival Tithe - a tenth of crops, plus add to that the firstborn animals, and take for the yearly feast.
Purpose of this tithe: “that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always”

THIRD TITHE
Deuteronomy 14:28-29: aka The Three-Year Tithe aka The Poor Tithe - a tenth of crops, kept at home, and invite the Levites, widows, orphans, stranger to eat.
Purpose of this tithe: to feed the poor.

Malachi 3 refers to the first tithe only. The blessings referred to for tithing was RAIN for the whole nation. It was not speaking of individual blessings - rain for those who tithe and no rain for those who don't. The blessings were FOR THE WHOLE NATION.

The curse referred to in Malachi does not apply to Christians. Galatians 3:13 “Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us…”

Pastors usually start with Malachi verse 8 instead of verse 7. Malachi 3:7 (KJV) “Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ORDINANCES, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?”

Colossians 2:14 (KJV) “Blotting out the handwriting of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;”

OLD TESTAMENT
Proverbs 3:9 (KJV) “Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:”

NEW TESTAMENT
2 Timothy 2:6 (KJV) “The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits.”

Are you aware that the tithe was paid to THE LEVITES, not the priests? The Levites were the ushers, singers, musicians, janitors, etc. - the servants of the priests. The Levites were then commanded to give a tenth of that tithe to the priests.

Are you aware that the priests and Levites only worked at the Temple about two weeks per year, on a rotational basis? NOT FULL TIME. The priests and Levites were divided into 24 "courses". See First Chronicles 24 for the priests and chapters 25 and 26 for the Levites. Each course only ministered in the Temple one week out of twenty four (1 in 24), and, depending on how many families were in each course, each family only ministered in the Temple two or three days during its courses’ week of ministry.

The New Testament teaches generous, sacrificial giving, from the heart, according to our means. For some, $1 might be a sacrifice, while for others, even giving 50% of their income might not induce a sacrifice. In the Old Testament, ONLY the farmers tithed, and it was equal percentage (a tenth). The New Testament teaches the principle of equal sacrifice instead of equal percentage. Equal sacrifice is much harder to achieve, if not impossible, than giving ten percent.

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then what are the blessings?

and better yet, do those blessings that were in the Old Testament apply to us today?

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GaryArnold said:

I dare you to show scripture where God ever requested anyone a tenth of their income. If you can't find it in the scriptures, I guess you've been lied to.

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Leviticus 27:30
And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's: it is holy unto the LORD.
Deuteronomy 14:22
Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
Malachi 3:10
Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
Hebrews 7
4Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
5And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
6But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
7And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
8And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
9And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
10For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

Genesis 14:20
And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.
Even the patriarch Jacob knew to return a tithe unto God. Genesis 28:22
And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

GaryArnold said:

Yes, render to Caesar what is Caesar's - the coin WITH CAESAR'S IMAGE ON IT.

Render to God what is God's - WE were made in God's image, so God wants us.

Has NOTHING to do with tithing.

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God don't need your money but knowing that you are His does prompt those who love Him to offer and return of that He gives.

winslow said:

I reiterate that the original question was does the Lord promise blessings on those who declare their faith through giving of their firstfruits (tithe), not whether you or anyone believes you are under obligation to it. The answer is clearly Yes the Lord has promised to bless those who tithe.

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Then if one does not tithe, is one cursed?, can't have one without the other.

Try to understand the tithing laws went away with the temple, and the priesthood that collected it.



Heb 7:5And those descendants of Levi who receive the priestly office have a commandment in the law to take tithes from the people, that is, from their brothers, though these also are descended from Abraham.



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7:12For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well.

Elder 111 said:

Leviticus 27:30
And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's: it is holy unto the LORD.
Deuteronomy 14:22
Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
Malachi 3:10
Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
Hebrews 7
4Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
5And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
6But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
7And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
8And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
9And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
10For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

Genesis 14:20
And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.
Even the patriarch Jacob knew to return a tithe unto God. Genesis 28:22
And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

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Excuse me, but Abe gave once, in a 175 year life span, out of the spoils of war, it was not even his money, so if u r going to use him, then i will tithe after i slaughter a bunch of kings too.


Also Abe was circumcised, and offered animals, do i do that, just because he did?

winslow said:

If only farmers tithed then please explain this verse:

Matt 23:23 Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocities! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cumimin,.....


Scribes and Pharisees were not farmers. Paul was a Pharisee but was a tent maker by trade.

The reference to mint, anise and cummin is a stab at them for being so legalistic towards tithing while neglecting the weightier matters of the law, justice, mercy and faith.

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bro..just go here, u can learn alot...



Should the Church Teach Tithing? Taboo Answer

winslow said:

I reiterate that the original question was does the Lord promise blessings on those who declare their faith through giving of their firstfruits (tithe), not whether you or anyone believes you are under obligation to it. The answer is clearly Yes the Lord has promised to bless those who tithe.

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To start with, firstfruits has nothing to do with the tithe. In Nehemiah 10:37 we learn that the firstfruits were taken to the temple for the priests, and the tithes were taken to the Levites who lived in the Levitical cities.

Next, the Lord did not promise US (Christians) blessings if we tithe. In fact, it is impossible for anyone to pay the Biblical tithe today.

However, I do believe that those who GIVE may be blessed.