Time, times half time of Daniel = 3500 years! Millenium about to BEGIN!

Husky7 said:

Ok, well could you provide the verse which speaks about this other time, times, and half a time? I'm not familier with this concept, I'd like to investigate this...

Click to expand...

Daniel 12:6And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

What wonders? Gabriel's "speech" began in Daniel 11:2, after describing what kept Gabriel from coming sooner and ended in Daniel 12:3.

7And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Gabriel gave the timeline in Daniel 11-12.

The question was:

Daniel 12:6And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

What wonders? Gabriel's "speech" began in Daniel 11:2, after describing what kept Gabriel from coming sooner and ended in Daniel 12:3.

7And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.



The END of the time, times, half time is the resurrection and judgment of the good and the bad, according to Gabriel. It was the last thing he spoke of before the question was asked:

Daniel 12:

2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

The only resurrection that I'm aware of, Scripturally, that involves a resurrection and judgment of the wicked as well as the good is what is described in Rev 20 as happening after the millenium....the Great White Throne judgment.

So, the end of the time, times, half time is the GWT judgment after the upcoming millennium.

The beginning was where Gabriel began the story that led to the question "how long to the end of those wonders?" which is found in Daniel 11:

1Also I in the first year of Darius the Mede, even I, stood to confirm and to strengthen him. 2And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia.


So, the beginning "of these wonders" is when a the first of three kings stands up after Darius the Mede. And the end "of these wonders" is the GWT judgment.

The angel said "these wonders" takes a time, times and half a time...so that's 3 1/2 of something! Given that we're still at least a millenium away from the GWT judgment, that time, times, half a time to the end of "these wonders" is 1000's.

Now, historically, we can do a search to see who was king in Persia after Darius the Mede, and if I recall it is Xerxes, Esther's husband. Darius the Mede's reign ended in late 486BC historically. So, add 3500 years (time, times, half a time in thousands) and you will arrive at the GWT judgment.

Now, the angel also appears to have referred to the anti-christ in the last line about power of the holy people broken which we know is 3 1/2 years. So, the angel appears to be referring to both. Both take a time, times and half a time but one is in single years and one is in 1000's of years.

Husky7 said:

Here is the truth about the Millenium, according to scripture: The 1000 Year Millennium Bible Truth

I don't know how you got the number 3500, but it doesn't have anything to do with the millenium.

Click to expand...

See previous post but I wanted to address this. It has to do with the millenium because the only time there is a resurrection and judgment of the unrighteous is post-millenial!

The only resurrection of both the just and the unjust, such as is described in Daniel 12:2 here...


2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

....is after the millenium, Scripturally. I know of no other resurrection and judgment involving the unrighteous who will rise from the grave to shame and everlasting contempt other than after the millenium as is described in Rev 20.

That means that the end "of these wonders" is post millenial because the resurrection and judgment of the unrighteous is post millenial.

However, the beginning of these wonders that Gabriel described to Daniel was specified by Gabriel in Daniel 11:2 as being the first of three more kings arising in Persia. Historically, that happened in late 486BC when Darius the Mede's reign ended and another king began.

Gabriel described the time from 486BC to the end of the millenium as "time, times, and half a time". We know the millenium is 1000 years. We are currently at 2010 beyond year "0". How many years have passed since 486BC? Answer: 2497 and we know there's at least 1000 years of a millenium to go until the GWT judgment where the just AND the unjust are resurrected and judged. That means there is a 3 year discrepancy + 1000 years until the 3 1/2 millenia is complete.

I'm trying to figure out how I can put it in a nutshell version...

Things we know as fact:

1. Gabriel spoke of what happens at the beginning and end of a time period that he said lasts a time, times, and half a time. (Daniel 10-12, specifically Daniel 12:6-7 in regards to the time, times, half time answer that Gabriel gave)

2. Beginning = king to arise after Darius the Mede (486BC) according to Daniel 11:2.

3. End = GWT resurrection and judgment of good AND the bad according to Daniel 12:2.


If the beginning is 486BC and we are currently standing in 2010, then nearly 2500 years have passed... and the end (GWT resurrection and judgment) is post-millenial, then we are currently within about 3 years of the beginning of the millenium... because the "time, times and half a time" ends in a post millenial resurrection and judgment of the just AND unjust.

zeke37 said:

1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

so this is speaking of the great tribulation/that final hour of temptation

2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

ok, no date here though....
Daniel will rise to everlasting life, but many will not.

this section speaks of who is going to live forever and who will not...
there is no date set on when, nor if it is even connected to the 3 1/2 times

3And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

awsome

4But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

when is that in scripture Jen?
is that the Millennium's end?
or is that Jacob's trouble?
the latter of course!

5Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.
6And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?
7And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

so when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

when are the Holy people scattered Jen?
are you saying that they are not scattered until the final Judgement at Millenniums's end?

8And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
9And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

so the words are UNSEALED at the time of the end...
this should set you strait on when that is....
the time of the end is when the holy people are scattered and when the words are unsealed...

it is NOT Millennium's end as you suppose

10Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

some will not understand at all....


it's all there Jen...just TRUST IN SCRIPTURE

BELIEVE IN SCRIPTURE JEN.....

Click to expand...

I've already been through all of this in another thread. It has nothing to do with this one. Please take it there.

HERE:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7490525/

Walk through this one more time for those who still refuse to look at it:

Is Daniel 10-12 describing the angel Gabriel telling Daniel about what is written in the Book of Truth in heaven?

Daniel 10:21But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

Then, Gabriel starts telling Daniel what is written in the book of truth in heaven. What is the starting point of Gabriel's story?

Daniel 11: 1Also I in the first year of Darius the Mede, even I, stood to confirm and to strengthen him. 2And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia.

Do you see that? The starting point of Gabriel's story is that there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia, after Darius the Mede.

So, when did Darius the Mede's reign end and the 1st of three more kings begin. Historically, if you look it up, the year is 486BC which is exactly 2497 years ago from current year.

Gabriel continues the story, speaking of Alexander the Great and other kings in that land and area. He speaks of the Medes, the Greeks, etc. He even speaks of deliverance of God's people after a time of great distress in the land.

THEN, the last thing in Gabriel's story is a resurrection of the good AND the bad:

Daniel 12:2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Now, scripturally, WHEN does THAT resurrection and judgment happen? When are the UNRIGHTEOUS resurrected and judged?

According to Revelation 20, that resurrection and judgment happens after the millenium.

Then another angel asks Gabriel:


Daniel 12:5Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.
6And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? 7And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.


SO, ask yourself, "what wonders?" Answer: The wonders that Gabriel just got finished describing that Gabriel said started with the king after Darius the Mede and Gabriel said ended with the post-millenial resurrection and judgment of the righteous AND unrighteous.

Therefore, since the beginning of the time, times and a half was the king after Darius the Mede in 486BC and it's been 2497 years since that time, AND we know as a fact that there is still 1000 years before the resurrection and judgment of the unrighteous which Gabriel said is the ending of the time, times and a half, then we are within 3 years of the millenial reign of Christ!

486 (for 486BC) + 1 (for year "0") + 2010 (current year) = 2497
Millenium (after which the unrighteous resurrected and judged) = 1000
Therefore 2497 + 1000 = 3497

Time = 1000 years
Times = 2000 years
Half a time = 500 years

1000 + 2000 + 500 = 3500 years

3500 - 3497 = 3 years difference.

Since the millenium hasn't begun yet, we can expect it to begin in roughly 3 years.

So, the time, times and half a time that Gabriel was referring to IN THIS INSTANCE is 3500 years. This has nothing to do with the anti-christ who is also spoken of as having a time, times and half a time but we know, in that instance, that is 3 1/2 years based on other, confirming scriptures.

zeke37 said:

all these things shall be finished when the holy people are scatttered and the unsealing happens for the wise...

that is NOT millennium's end no matter how hard you want it to be Jen...


don't refuse to look at the scripture Jen

trust in scripture Jen....don't deny it

Click to expand...

Daniel 12:5Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.
6And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? 7And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.


So, Zeke, when do you believe that there is a resurrection and judgment of the just and unjust, as is described here, which is the end "of these wonders" being asked about:

Daniel 12:

2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Can you provide a scripture that shows the timing of the unjust being resurrected and judged by God, rising to "shame and everlasting contempt"?

zeke37 said:

that is not what I said, or refered to Jen

when are the holy people scattered and when are Daniel's words unsealed...??????



again, that is not what is referenced...
we do not know if the 3.5 times ends with the rising of the unjust
yet...or if at all......

we do, however, know for a certainty,
that all these things shall be finished
when the scattering of the holy people is accomplished,
and the vision of Daniel is unsealed.

now, how does that work into your theories???
because that sets the 3.5 times ending before final judgement

Click to expand...

Just as the angel described, Zeke.

This is describing what happens at the end of these wonders:

Daniel 12


1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
4But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
5Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.
6And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? 7And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half;

and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

We are told in Revelation that the anti-christ has 42 months and that he kills the two witnesses. That would be a scattering of the power of the holy people. 42 months would certainly be a time, times, and half a time.


If there is a resurrection and judgment of the unjust after the 42 months of the anti-christ, show me.

zeke37 said:

well...again Jen,.....

we do not know at the point of reading Dan12:3, if the 3.5 times are inclusive to the rising of the unjust...

the angel does not say that they are....the angel makes a statement...
and then after that statement mentions the 3.5 times and what must occure to end them



what we do know is that the angel tells Daniel,
that the scattering of the Holy peoples power
and the unsealing of Daniel's vision,
will end that time,......it will be finished...

and there is still a whole 1000 years to come after that...

just because Gabriel says Daniel will rise, and the unjust will rise
does not mean that it is included in the 3.5 years....

we can be sure that it is not, from verse 6

Click to expand...

Well, Zeke, Gabriel was describing events that started in Daniel 11 and ended in Daniel 12 that are written in the Book of Truth, just as he said.

It ended with a resurrection of the just and unjust.

So, from Scripture, when is that moment in time?

Rev 20:

5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


Open your mind...the angel could be saying that the time, times, and half time refers to BOTH. A time, times and half time could be 3.5 years AND it could be 3500 years.