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Three Questions...

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WAB

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THREE QUESTIONS

1. What does it mean to be "in Christ?"

2 Corinthians 5:17.... "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new."

2. Can one be "in Christ" and not be in the "body of Christ?"

Romans 12:4,5.....
"For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function, so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another."

Romans 16:7.... "Greet Andronicus and Junia, my countrymen and my fellow prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me."

Galatians 3:26-28.... "For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave not free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus." (The baptism spoken of here is defined in 1Corinthians 12:13).

In 1 John 1:1-3 John declares that which he personally saw and heard to those who received his epistle. He states that he wrote these things in order that they (and we) "...also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ."

The word "fellowship" here is the same word as found in 1 Corinthians 10:16, translated "communion," and is the Greek word koinoni’a, the definition of which is: a joint participation with someone else, in things held in common by both.

Kenneth Wuest translates this verse: "The cup of the blessing [which our Lord consecrated by giving thanks] which we consecrate with prayer, is it not a symbol of our joint-participation in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a symbol of our joint-participation in the body of Christ?"

3. Can one be "in Christ" and a joint participant in the blood and body of the Lord Jesus Christ and not be in the Body/Church?

John goes on (in 1 John 5:11-13) to state that "He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God."

Every genuine believer may know that he or she has, as their present possession, eternal life.

Verse 20 of the same chapter states that John and other believers "...are in Him that is true, (even) in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life."

These scriptures are totally incompatible with the teaching of Grace School Of The Bible, of Bloomingdale, IL, that none of the twelve Apostles were in the Body of Christ, and that the books of Hebrews through Revelation are not to be understood as applicable to those who are in the Body Church, but are reserved for the Millenium.


Unless one is committed to a position that would be impossible to support if these scriptures are taken at face value, how can these folks ignore or explain away these truths? The old saw "don’t confuse me with the facts" comes to mind.

Unfortunately, whether deliberately or not, the positions of G.S.O.T.B. play right into the teachings of those who are anti-Semitic and white-supremacist, both of which positions are completely contrary to Scripture. See Romans 9:1-5 and Numbers 12.

Recently, the pastor of a local church here on the Big Island of Hawaii has stated that he does not believe that the Church/Body of Christ is now in existence, but that it is "...in prospect..." i.e. not now in existence, but to come.

If one takes the plain words of scripture referenced above, one can only come to the conclusion that anyone not now in the Church/Body of Christ, is not a genuine Christian at all. That one may have an intellectual appreciation of the Bible, but if he/she is not now a member of the organism (not organization) known as the Body of Christ, the Church, or the Bride of Christ, that mental assent will prove to be insufficient in the Day of Christ.

Shalom... WAB
 

Dispy

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WAB said:
THREE QUESTIONS

Q: 1. What does it mean to be "in Christ?"

A. It happens the moment one places their FAITH and trust in the Cross work (death, burial, and resurrection) for Christ for their salvation/justification.

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink one Spirit." 1Cor.12:13. No water involved.

"For we are members of his body, of his flesh and of his bones" Eph.5:20. Paul speaking of believers.


Q. 2. Can one be "in Christ" and not be in the body of Christ?"

A. If we are "in Christ" then we are in "the Body of Christ." See above.

Q. 3. Can one be "in Christ" and a joint participant in the blood and body of the Lord Jesus Christ and not be in the Body/Church?

A. Very confusing question. If one be "in Christ", how can one "not be in the Body/Church? See 1 above.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!
 
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WAB

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Dispy said:
WAB said:
THREE QUESTIONS

Q: 1. What does it mean to be "in Christ?"

A. It happens the moment one places their FAITH and trust in the Cross work (death, burial, and resurrection) for Christ for their salvation/justification.

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink one Spirit." 1Cor.12:13. No water involved.

"For we are members of his body, of his flesh and of his bones" Eph.5:20. Paul speaking of believers.


Q. 2. Can one be "in Christ" and not be in the body of Christ?"

A. If we are "in Christ" then we are in "the Body of Christ." See above.

Q. 3. Can one be "in Christ" and a joint participant in the blood and body of the Lord Jesus Christ and not be in the Body/Church?

A. Very confusing question. If one be "in Christ", how can one "not be in the Body/Church? See 1 above.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

Obviously you did not read the entire post... JOHN declared himself to be in Christ, and over and over it has been declared that neither John nor Peter were in the Church/Body of Christ... hello? Shalom... WAB

edited to add the observation that Andronicus was a relative of Paul (i.e. a Jew), and (with his wife Junia) "...[were] of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.'" (Romans 16:7).

If, as you have repeatedly claimed, no one was "in Christ" before Paul's conversion and ministry, how did Andronicus and Junia get into that position before Paul?
 
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Dispy

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WAB said:
Dispy said:
Obviously you did not read the entire post... JOHN declared himself to be in Christ, and over and over it has been declared that neither John nor Peter were in the Church/Body of Christ... hello? Shalom... WAB

edited to add the observation that Andronicus was a relative of Paul (i.e. a Jew), and (with his wife Junia) "...[were] of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.'" (Romans 16:7).

If, as you have repeatedly claimed, no one was "in Christ" before Paul's conversion and ministry, how did Andronicus and Junia get into that position before Paul?

You asked 3 question, I gave you three answers.
 
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christianmomof3

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over and over it has been declared that neither John nor Peter were in the Church/Body of Christ... hello? Shalom... WAB
Um, who declared this over and over? The group that you are saying is racist and anti semetic? The GSOTB? If they are saying that, but the Bible does not say it, then I would imagine they are wrong and the Bible is right.
I don't understand the question I guess.
 
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WAB

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christianmomof3 said:
Um, who declared this over and over? The group that you are saying is racist and anti semetic? The GSOTB? If they are saying that, but the Bible does not say it, then I would imagine they are wrong and the Bible is right.
I don't understand the question I guess.

Well, eph for one, and Dispy for another. Am sure they will answer if you question them about their position as to whether Peter or any of the other apostles were/are in the Body-of -Christ/Church.

Shalom... WAB
 
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Dispy

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WAB said:
Well, eph for one, and Dispy for another. Am sure they will answer if you question them about their position as to whether Peter or any of the other apostles were/are in the Body-of -Christ/Church.

Shalom... WAB

We mid-Acts Dispies do make a distinction between "kingdom saints" and "body saints." The distinction that "kingdom saints" will inherit the kingdom here upon the earth, and the "body saints", are members of the Chruch, The Body of Christ", those saved under the preaching of "the gospel of the grace of God. The "kingdom saints" are those who are promised a place in the kingdom here upon the earth. They would include all the OT sainst that were promised an earthly kingdom, and those saved in the NT under the preaching of "the gospel of the kingdom."

Peter and John are considered "kingdom saints." Luke 22:28 "Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.
29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed me:
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel."

Members of the Body of Christ will inherit a place in the heavenly kingdom. 2Cor.5:1 "For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."

Philippians 3:20 "For our conversation (citizenship NIV) is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ."

1Thess.4:17 "Then we which are alive and remain shall be causht up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.!

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!
 
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eph3Nine

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Dispy said:
We mid-Acts Dispies do make a distinction between "kingdom saints" and "body saints." The distinction that "kingdom saints" will inherit the kingdom here upon the earth, and the "body saints", are members of the Chruch, The Body of Christ", those saved under the preaching of "the gospel of the grace of God. The "kingdom saints" are those who are promised a place in the kingdom here upon the earth. They would include all the OT sainst that were promised an earthly kingdom, and those saved in the NT under the preaching of "the gospel of the kingdom."

Peter and John are considered "kingdom saints." Luke 22:28 "Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.
29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed me:
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel."

Members of the Body of Christ will inherit a place in the heavenly kingdom. 2Cor.5:1 "For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."

Philippians 3:20 "For our conversation (citizenship NIV) is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ."

1Thess.4:17 "Then we which are alive and remain shall be causht up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.!

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!


Excellent explanation, Dispy. There truly IS a difference between KINGDOM saints and Body Saints...two completely different programs, with different instructions and one following the earthly ministry of Jesus, with one following His ministry AFTER his resurrection and ascencion.
Jesus never addressed instructions to we gentiles under Israels program. He was there on earth to deal with the Nation ISRAEL EXCLUSIVELY...the plan was for them to be saved FIRST (thru belief in their prophesied MESSIAH) and then to lead all other nations to God.

They (Israel) never believed..but denied their Messiah. God, in His infinite wisdom, already had the MYSTERY plan waiting (since the world began) as He knew the Jews would fail. He wasnt about to leave the world with NO way of receiving His redemptive plan for them.
 
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WAB

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eph3Nine said:
Excellent explanation, Dispy. There truly IS a difference between KINGDOM saints and Body Saints...two completely different programs, with different instructions and one following the earthly ministry of Jesus, with one following His ministry AFTER his resurrection and ascencion.
Jesus never addressed instructions to we gentiles under Israels program. He was there on earth to deal with the Nation ISRAEL EXCLUSIVELY...the plan was for them to be saved FIRST (thru belief in their prophesied MESSIAH) and then to lead all other nations to God.

They (Israel) never believed..but denied their Messiah. God, in His infinite wisdom, already had the MYSTERY plan waiting (since the world began) as He knew the Jews would fail. He wasnt about to leave the world with NO way of receiving His redemptive plan for them.

You say... "He (Jesus) was there on earth to deal with the Nation ISRAEL EXCLUSIVELY..."

So logically, He went to the cross while He was here on earth for "ISRAEL EXCLUSIVELY"?

Contrary to your scenario, the reason He came was to shed His blood and receive the judgement of Almighty God the Father on Calvary's Cross for all mankind, not to shed a portion of His blood for the nation Israel and the rest of it for the rest of mankind.
 
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eph3Nine

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The issue is..ONLY one camp can be RIGHT.

Right division is the ONLY reasonable explanation for the glaring differences in programs. The simple fact that one camp refuses to even ACKNOWLEDGE that law is indeed different from GRACE should be your first good clue as to which way to LEAN, but one way or the other, you will need to make a STAND!

Know what I mean, jelly bean??? wink/huuuuuugs

Tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine is NOT a good place to be.
 
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WAB

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eph3Nine said:
The issue is..ONLY one camp can be RIGHT.

Right division is the ONLY reasonable explanation for the glaring differences in programs. The simple fact that one camp refuses to even ACKNOWLEDGE that law is indeed different from GRACE should be your first good clue as to which way to LEAN, but one way or the other, you will need to make a STAND!

Know what I mean, jelly bean??? wink/huuuuuugs

Tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine is NOT a good place to be.

Once again, I must state without reservation that I believe with all my heart that what Paul wrote in his epistles is the very Word of God. (God-breathed).

And... the above is true when one deletes "Paul" and inserts "Peter".

Just a sample... Galatians 3:13... "Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us, (for it is written: 'Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree")." Of course Paul is referring to Deut. 21:23.

Now 1 Peter 1:18,19... "...you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, 19: but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot."

The price of redemption was the same for both Peter and Paul... the precious blood of the Redeemer, shed on Calvary's Cross. And... He paid the price for you and me as well, for which I say... HALLELUJAH!
 
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