yeshuaslavejeff
simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
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COOL! Anytime, ask - I am trying more to give an explanation or to be clear...I'm just playing with you.You do your thing. I believe you heart is in the right place, I just have a hard time, sometimes, deciphering what you're saying. It can take me a bit to catch on.
I think there are four predominant views of the salvific process, that I like to illustrate metaphorically.
In all cases, we begin as adrift in the sea, in imminent danger of drowning, nothing to cling to.
God as the Happy Party Boat Pilot: God is merrily chugging along, really jolly and happy, because he's God, and upon our own initiative, with God not having anything to do with it besides providing a party boat, we can choose to swim to the party boat or not. The "good people" (people who choose to swim to the boat) all get to spend forever on the Happy Party Boat.
God as the laissez-Faire Lifeguard: God tosses out life preservers, willy-nilly, but it is up to us to swim toward them and grab them--and to pull ourselves in.
God as the Very Busy Lifeguard: God tosses out life preservers, to every single person, directly, accurately, bonking us all on the head, because otherwise we can't see the life preservers, since we're too egotistical and wrapped up on worldliness. It is up to each of us to accept that life preserver and let God haul us in. While it might be nice if we swim toward the boat with the life preserver, the distance is so great that it wouldn't make any difference without God doing the hauling.
God as the Dip Netter: God has a dip net. We can't avoid the net. We also can't swim toward the net, because we are all anchored to the bottom, barely staying afloat until we lose our meager strength and sink forever. God just dips up who He wants and lets everyone else drown. Nothing we do matters, for we can do nothing.
I think there are four predominant views of the salvific process,
I don’t see any options that include bearing fruit and having love for others.
COOL! Anytime, ask - I am trying more to give an explanation or to be clear...
THANKS!
AFTER being saved, isn't that when the fruit (IF there is any ) will be seen? Hard to have fruit before that, right?
We can do good before we are saved. Our fruit is only tainted in the eyes of God by our sin.
“Opening his mouth, Peter said: "I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality, but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him.”
Acts 10:34-35 NASB
Some sat in darkness, in utter darkness,
prisoners suffering in iron chains,
11because they rebelled against God’s commands
and despised the plans of the Most High.
12So he subjected them to bitter labor;
they stumbled, and there was no one to help.
13Then they cried to the Lord in their trouble,
and he saved them from their distress.
14He brought them out of darkness, the utter darkness,
and broke away their chains.
There is no guarantee that every person will respond to God's call. However, God has called all.
One view is missing.I think there are four predominant views of the salvific process, that I like to illustrate metaphorically.
In all cases, we begin as adrift in the sea, in imminent danger of drowning, nothing to cling to.
God as the Happy Party Boat Pilot: God is merrily chugging along, really jolly and happy, because he's God, and upon our own initiative, with God not having anything to do with it besides providing a party boat, we can choose to swim to the party boat or not. The "good people" (people who choose to swim to the boat) all get to spend forever on the Happy Party Boat.
God as the laissez-Faire Lifeguard: God tosses out life preservers, willy-nilly, but it is up to us to swim toward them and grab them--and to pull ourselves in.
God as the Very Busy Lifeguard: God tosses out life preservers, to every single person, directly, accurately, bonking us all on the head, because otherwise we can't see the life preservers, since we're too egotistical and wrapped up on worldliness. It is up to each of us to accept that life preserver and let God haul us in. While it might be nice if we swim toward the boat with the life preserver, the distance is so great that it wouldn't make any difference without God doing the hauling.
God as the Dip Netter: God has a dip net. We can't avoid the net. We also can't swim toward the net, because we are all anchored to the bottom, barely staying afloat until we lose our meager strength and sink forever. God just dips up who He wants and lets everyone else drown. Nothing we do matters, for we can do nothing.
One view is missing.
God the Savior of the Dead.
He deep dives finds us dead, body bloated no life in us. While we are still dead He makes us alive in Him.
Nope not even close. You keep adding on your sunk views.That is God as the dip netter. God chooses whom He wills, we all deserve damnation, it's all a crapshoot. Babies deserve to burn in Hell forever.
That is God as the dip netter. God chooses whom He wills, we all deserve damnation, it's all a crapshoot. Babies deserve to burn in Hell forever.
"For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them."
(Matthew 13:15).
The people's heart is waxed gross, their eyes they have closed "lest" (UNLESS OUT OF FEAR) they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears.
Lest (UNLESS OUT OF FEAR OF GOD) they "be converted" and God will heal them.
How are we to be converted?
By repenting.
"Repent ye therefore, and be converted,..."
(Acts of the Apostles 3:19).
Repentance is not by some forced regeneration against a person's will because God commands all men everywhere to repent.
"...but now commands all men everywhere to repent,"
(Acts of the Apostles 17:30).
For it is the fear of the Lord that men depart from evil (Proverbs 16:6).
God so loved the world (not just the elect) (John 3:16).
The word "world" is in reference to the "world" and not the elect.
Unless one wants to change the plain meaning of the Bible, this word means what it says plainly.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOEVER believes in Him (not just the "elect") should not perish but have everlasting life." (John 3:16).
Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.
The world. Not just the sins of the elect. God pays the price for sin for all of mankind (except those in Revelation 13:8, and Revelation 17:8) so as to offer mankind the gift of salvation. But a person has to accept that gift. Gifts are not forced upon people. I know. I tried to give a gift to a person once, and they sent it back. So gifts have to be received by the other person. Gifts cannot be forced upon people. It may not be the kind of gift that they want. Most do not want the gift of salvation because it requires picking up your cross, and denying yourself to follow Jesus (i.e. living a holy life in glory to God).
2Ti 2:24 And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, table to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.
Now the repentance has 2 primary (purposes or direct effects by design of God) he is the primary cause (he Grants) and purposes the effects:
leading to the knowledge of Truth
bringing them to their (the ones granted) senses.
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