Thoughs of the tribulation

seventysevens · Apr 18, 2018

David Kent said:
You would have a hard time finding that in Olivet. The days that were cut short were the days of the siege for as Daniel said it ended with a flood of Roman soldiers unexpectedly entering the temple against the orders of Titus.

No that is not what the scripture is saying - Jesus is talking and HE the Messiah that is coming will cut the days short AT His return - Because if he didn't do so there would be No flesh surviving the GT
you read it and you cannot see that plainly ?
then you need reading and comprehension classes

God bless Joshua · Apr 19, 2018

LastSeven said:
We are already in the tribulation. We have been since the fall.

Dan 12:1 "And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time."

Choose Wisely · Apr 19, 2018

seventysevens said:
No that is not what the scripture is saying - Jesus is talking and HE the Messiah that is coming will cut the days short AT His return - Because if he didn't do so there would be No flesh surviving the GT
you read it and you cannot see that plainly ?
then you need reading and comprehension classes

Matt 24
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

He's not really saying that no flesh would survive the Great Tribulation. He is saying that if he did not cut the days short there would be no salvation for anyone living. In other words, no one would be caught up alive when he comes for the gathering in Matt 24........all the elect would be dead.

Matthew 24 is not the time when Jesus sets up his kingdom on earth, it is the time when he gathers the believers for the marriage supper in heaven. The tribulation is over......"Immediately after the tribulation" and He will come as a thief and the wrath of God will begin.

LastSeven · Apr 21, 2018

God bless Joshua said:
Dan 12:1 "And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time."

So what? Doesn't mean we're not in the great tribulation now.

David Kent · Apr 21, 2018

seventysevens said:
No that is not what the scripture is saying - Jesus is talking and HE the Messiah that is coming will cut the days short AT His return - Because if he didn't do so there would be No flesh surviving the GT
you read it and you cannot see that plainly ?
then you need reading and comprehension classes

If you read Matt 4, Mark 13 and Luke 21 with any carefullness you will see that is referring to the destruction of the then standing temple and its consequences.

seventysevens · Apr 21, 2018

David Kent said:
If you read Matt 4, Mark 13 and Luke 21 with any carefullness you will see that is referring to the destruction of the then standing temple and its consequences.

Yes at the beginning -
but then Jesus speaks of another matter after he told of then temple being torn down , if you read it carefully you will see that
that other matter is Jesus speaking of details of His return to earth and the things that are signs given so that the generation of people that personally witness those events will be the generation that sees Jesus return - Jesus speaks of the great tribulation that will be the worst loss of life and earthly calamities that have never happened before - to such an extent that all fish - birds -animal life and human life would perish leaving no life of any kind of flesh , but Because Jesus returns to stop the calamities and wrath he shortens those bad things and saves Israel from destruction

seventysevens · Apr 21, 2018

LastSeven said:
So what? Doesn't mean we're not in the great tribulation now.

tribulation is now ...... the Great Tribulation is later

God bless Joshua · Apr 21, 2018

Life itself is a tribulation for us, apart from the grief tribulation.
Many many people died of unnatural causes young and old.

LastSeven · Apr 22, 2018

seventysevens said:
tribulation is now ...... the Great Tribulation is later

Because you said so?

Steve Petersen · Apr 22, 2018

FutureAndAHope said:
The following is just my opinion, and could be wrong. But I believe that we are soon to enter the time of tribulation explained in the book of revelation

Well, you aren't the first to be wrong and you certainly won't be the last. Take comfort in that.

seventysevens · Apr 22, 2018

LastSeven said:
Because you said so?

No because Jesus said so

Davy · Apr 22, 2018

David Kent said:
If you read Matt 4, Mark 13 and Luke 21 with any carefullness you will see that is referring to the destruction of the then standing temple and its consequences.

If one reads the Matthew 24:33-34 verses carefully, they will understand that even that not one stone atop another sign is also meant for the final generation on earth that will see all those things.

Matt 24:33-34
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
KJV

The not one stone atop another is actually a dual fulfillment prophecy. That is how Jesus could say the generation that see all those signs won't pass until all those signs have come to pass. Well, the generation era of His Apostles is already past, and those signs are still not fulfilled.

This Scripture is about the "day of the Lord" when Jesus returns:

Ezek 38:19-20
19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;

20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.
KJV

The great earthquake in Jerusalem on the "day of the Lord" per Zechariah 14 is going to destroy this next temple today's orthodox Jews will build. When they build their new temple in Jerusalem, it will prove the not one stone atop another Jesus gave is also for the very end of this world on the "day of the Lord".

And actually, today it is already proven that the not one stone atop another is still future, because the Dome of the Rock stands on the Temple Mount today, so there's definitely stones atop another there.

David Kent · Apr 22, 2018

seventysevens said:
Clearly your understanding of that is false -simply enough that Jesus stated outright during the Olivet that when the GT happens destruction so bad that no flesh would be saved if it were not for Him returning to put an end to it , It has not happened and Jesus has yet to return , but it will happen soon - Then you can say you are correct

Again you are misquoting Jesus to fit your point of view.
Jesus said their would be none such, i e no similar type and there was no such as that in AD 66-70.

The Jews had filled up the measure of their fathers, who killed his prophets, Matt 23, by having their messiah crucified, as such their house, the temple, was left unto them desolate. All that would come upon that generation.
The disciples were taken aback by this and drew the attention of Jesus to those great stones. Jesus said that not one of those stones would be left upon another, They asked what was the sign for this and when would it happen, Jesus said "When you see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by the prophet Daniel," (Here was a mystery because Matt and Mark say "Let the reader understand" "Then those in Jerusalem and Judea must leave the city quickly" Luke does not record the mystery but tells us plainly, "When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near." The abomination was to desolate Jerusalem.
There was no tribulation "such as" that because the Jewish nation was taken from them and given to another. The priesthood was ended. Those that had lately worn the sacred vestments were thrown naked into the streets and their bodies trampled upon. The house of records that house the genealogies was burnt down so no Jew can prove their ancestry. The end came in a flood of Roman soldiers, Had it not come suddenly there would be none left alive. The curses in Deut. 28 applied. So many Jews were made slaves that the cost of slaves plunged throughout the empire. Many of these slaves were sent to work in the mines of Egypt.

Matthew adds another question "and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

This was nothing to do with the original discussion. It was "Off Topic" as we would say. Jesus answered when he said "BUT" signifying a change of subject. "36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

David Kent · Apr 22, 2018

Davy said:
What about the sign Jesus gave there about placing of the abomination that makes desolate in the temple from the Book of Daniel?

He doesn't say that.

Davy said:
And actually, today it is already proven that the not one stone atop another is still future, because the Dome of the Rock stands on the Temple Mount today, so there's definitely stones atop another there.

There was not one stone left upon another hundreds of years before the dome on the rock was built.

David Kent · Apr 22, 2018

seventysevens said:
Futurists differ on when believers will be raptured, but there are three primary views: 1) before the tribulation; 2) near or at the midpoint of the tribulation; or 3) at the end of the tribulation. There is also a fourth view of multiple raptures throughout the tribulation, but this view does not have a mainstream following.

They are all wrong. The saints will be raised on the last day and the judgement will also be on the last day.

seventysevens · Apr 22, 2018

You cannot seem to be able to tell when the conversation takes a different direction- Jesus told them the temple would be torn down -
Then he addressed and answered their question about when the end would come
two different topics

You are seeking to find something that is not there and since you cannot find it you conform/contort scripture together in order to suppose it is - you simply are reading it wrong

1 nuclear bomb can cause more deaths and more devastation through radio active fallout than all the the wars in the NT Times all together

Matt24
21 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

It is ridiculous to try to compare anything that happened nearly 2000 years that could possibly compare with many nuclear bombs destructive capability of today - billions of people could die in an all out nuclear war/ chemical war

Matt24
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Nothing like that has occurred because Jesus IS the Son of man in these verses - IT IS the events of the Return of Jesus

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

David Kent said:
Again you are misquoting Jesus to fit your point of view.
Jesus said their would be none such, i e no similar type and there was no such as that in AD 66-70.

The Jews had filled up the measure of their fathers, who killed his prophets, Matt 23, by having their messiah crucified, as such their house, the temple, was left unto them desolate. All that would come upon that generation.
The disciples were taken aback by this and drew the attention of Jesus to those great stones. Jesus said that not one of those stones would be left upon another, They asked what was the sign for this and when would it happen, Jesus said "When you see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by the prophet Daniel," (Here was a mystery because Matt and Mark say "Let the reader understand" "Then those in Jerusalem and Judea must leave the city quickly" Luke does not record the mystery but tells us plainly, "When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near." The abomination was to desolate Jerusalem.
There was no tribulation "such as" that because the Jewish nation was taken from them and given to another. The priesthood was ended. Those that had lately worn the sacred vestments were thrown naked into the streets and their bodies trampled upon. The house of records that house the genealogies was burnt down so no Jew can prove their ancestry. The end came in a flood of Roman soldiers, Had it not come suddenly there would be none left alive. The curses in Deut. 28 applied. So many Jews were made slaves that the cost of slaves plunged throughout the empire. Many of these slaves were sent to work in the mines of Egypt.

Matthew adds another question "and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

This was nothing to do with the original discussion. It was "Off Topic" as we would say. Jesus answered when he said "BUT" signifying a change of subject. "36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

seventysevens · Apr 22, 2018

David Kent said:
They are all wrong. The saints will be raised on the last day and the judgement will also be on the last day.

It is your view that is wrong - there is much you need to learn about the harpazo , the harvests and the gleaning

David Kent · Apr 22, 2018

The saints will be raised on the last day, Jesus said so.

John 6:39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Martha knew that as well.

John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

The last day will also be the day of judgement. Jesus said so,

John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day

Daniel doesn't give a gap between the resurrection of saints and sinners.

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Neither does Jesus.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

seventysevens · Apr 22, 2018

Yes that is what I said - Those days are cut short because Jesus returns if Jesus did not return it would not be cut short and all flesh would die- if you study what the Great Trib really is you learn that the GT is not just some random event that would come but it is the very design of God of how he will deal with the inhabitants of the earth that have rejected Jesus the True Messiah - to paraphrase it is God saying since you have rejected the real genuine Messiah and chose to live according to your own desires he will send you a false messiah that you will follow thinking it is the real deal
The false messiah is the great delusion that God sends to cause people who rejected Jesus - which Greatly Offended and Angered God that the wages of sin is death and those people who rejected Jesus will be purged from the earth much like those who chose to craft an image of the golden calf and worship it - the Great delusion of the false messiah is like the golden calf , they will worship a false idol

When Jesus the true Messiah returns he casts the false messiah into the lake of fire - all to often people forget about these details - just as they forget about the false prophet

Choose Wisely said:
Matt 24
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

He's not really saying that no flesh would survive the Great Tribulation. He is saying that if he did not cut the days short there would be no salvation for anyone living. In other words, no one would be caught up alive when he comes for the gathering in Matt 24........all the elect would be dead.

Matthew 24 is not the time when Jesus sets up his kingdom on earth, it is the time when he gathers the believers for the marriage supper in heaven. The tribulation is over......"Immediately after the tribulation" and He will come as a thief and the wrath of God will begin.

seventysevens · Apr 22, 2018

David Kent said:
The saints will be raised on the last day,

When you leave out scriptures and only focus on those that you want to - you do end up with a misunderstanding - simply because you choose to leave out many more scriptures than what you have posted

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