Those who observe OT law are under a CURSE

denim · Nov 6, 2012

Steve Petersen said:
You know, if the Holy Spirit tells you what you need to do and know, why bother with even the NT?

You have erronously equated the OT books with the OT law. OT Law is but a small part of OT. The OT consists of among other things, godly principles, God's spoken word to His people, acts of His prophets, prophesies, revelations, God's promises, history, the character of God, statistics, proverbs, stories with moral/godly values, wise sayings,, divine advice, songs, divine wisdom etc which themselves are not Mosaic Laws imposed upon believers but precious nuggets that we can learn so much from.

Likewise the NT contains many good stuffs from God. We should keep both the OT and NT minus practicing the 660 laws which were nullified by the downpouring of the Holy Spirit into us.

Steve Petersen · Nov 6, 2012

Are these nullified then?

To repent and confess wrongdoings--Numbers 5:7
Not to swear falsely in G-d's Name--Leviticus 19:12
Not to take G-d's Name in vain--Exodus 20:
Not to deny possession of something entrusted to you--Leviticus 19:11
Not to swear falsely in denial of a monetary claim--Leviticus 19:11
To swear in G-d's Name to confirm the truth when deemed necessary by court--Deuteronomy 10:20
To give charity--Deuteronomy 15:11
Not to withhold charity from the poor--Deuteronomy 15:7
Not to possess inaccurate scales and weights even if they are not for use--Deuteronomy 25:13
Not to move a boundary marker to steal someone's property--Deuteronomy 19:14
Not to kidnap--Exodus 20:13
Not to rob openly--Leviticus 19:13
Not to withhold wages or fail to repay a debt--Leviticus 19:13
Not to covet and scheme to acquire another's possession--Exodus 20:14
Not to desire another's possession--Deuteronomy 5:18
Return the robbed object or its value--Leviticus 5:23
Not to ignore a lost object--Deuteronomy 22:3
Return the lost object--Deuteronomy 22:1
Not to allow pitfalls and obstacles to remain on your property--Deuteronomy 22:8
Make a guard rail around flat roofs--Deuteronomy 22:8
Not to put a stumbling block before a blind man (nor give harmful advice)--Leviticus 19:14
Help another remove the load from a beast which can no longer carry it--Exodus 23:5
Help others load their beast--Deuteronomy 22:4
Not to leave others distraught with their burdens (but to help either load or unload)--Deuteronomy 22:4

denim · Nov 6, 2012

Steve Petersen said:
Are these nullified then?

To repent and confess wrongdoings--Numbers 5:7
Not to swear falsely in G-d's Name--Leviticus 19:12
Not to take G-d's Name in vain--Exodus 20:
Not to deny possession of something entrusted to you--Leviticus 19:11
Not to swear falsely in denial of a monetary claim--Leviticus 19:11
To swear in G-d's Name to confirm the truth when deemed necessary by court--Deuteronomy 10:20
To give charity--Deuteronomy 15:11
Not to withhold charity from the poor--Deuteronomy 15:7
Not to possess inaccurate scales and weights even if they are not for use--Deuteronomy 25:13
Not to move a boundary marker to steal someone's property--Deuteronomy 19:14
Not to kidnap--Exodus 20:13
Not to rob openly--Leviticus 19:13
Not to withhold wages or fail to repay a debt--Leviticus 19:13
Not to covet and scheme to acquire another's possession--Exodus 20:14
Not to desire another's possession--Deuteronomy 5:18
Return the robbed object or its value--Leviticus 5:23
Not to ignore a lost object--Deuteronomy 22:3
Return the lost object--Deuteronomy 22:1
Not to allow pitfalls and obstacles to remain on your property--Deuteronomy 22:8
Make a guard rail around flat roofs--Deuteronomy 22:8
Not to put a stumbling block before a blind man (nor give harmful advice)--Leviticus 19:14
Help another remove the load from a beast which can no longer carry it--Exodus 23:5
Help others load their beast--Deuteronomy 22:4
Not to leave others distraught with their burdens (but to help either load or unload)--Deuteronomy 22:4

The old package became expired when Christ came and is nullified because God gave us a new package now - The new covenant

Steve Petersen · Nov 6, 2012

denim said:
The old package became expired when Christ came and is nullified because God gave us a new package now - The new covenant

Do you ever answer with a simple 'yes' or 'no?'

I guess you mean to say that these laws are nullified then.

denim · Nov 6, 2012

Steve Petersen said:
Do you ever answer with a simple 'yes' or 'no?'

I guess you mean to say that these laws are nullified then.

That is because the matter here is not as simplistic as only to requires a yes or a no.

Essentially what i am saying is that the package called OT law or Mosaic Law is nullified. God gave us the old package as a temporary contract while He prepares a new deal that is more complete, more comprehensive, wider-ranging and up-to-date, that would include the Messiah and the Holy Spirit.

The old package was definitely rudimentary and it was a static piece of document where many issues were not covered especially in a modern fast-changing world. The new deal involving the Holy Spirit was a dynamic one as the HS is able to prompt us in real time concerning modern and current issues.

One cannot continue to adhere to the old deal once the new contract is signed. Provisions in the old deal are still covered under the new deal but in a different way.

The purpose of the old deal was to convict us of Sin and condemn us to Death while the new deal was to guide, correct and illuminate us. We are no longer condemned under the new deal.

In short, the new deal is only for Christians while the old deal is still for those who have not sign on the new deal.

funtimes · Nov 6, 2012

Jesus thinks sin is very important in the New Deal.

John 5:14 Jesus told the man He healed, if he sinned again, his punishment would be worse.

denim · Nov 7, 2012

funtimes said:
Jesus thinks sin is very important in the New Deal.

John 5:14 Jesus told the man He healed, if he sinned again, his punishment would be worse.

Salvation is not by the law. We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

"by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God" Eph 2:8

But Paul tells Christians "to work out salvation with fear and trembling" Phi 2:12.

Paul wrote in 1 Cor 5:5 - "hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord."

Both verses imply that one could actually lose his salvation due to excessive sinning.

You are absolutely right. Sin is still a big deal under the New Covenant. Even the saved can lose their salvation if they refuse to repent from their sins.

Everyone of us sins, therefore sin is not counted when God grants us salvation. But repentance or our sins is needed to maintain the salvation we have gained so unworthily from God.

whitebeaches · Nov 11, 2012

Mod Hat On

This thread has undergone a cleaning. It is quite possible another cleaning may take place. If you notice a post of yours missing it was removed in the clean up. Please remember no flaming and remember this is a Christian only area. You must be a Christian to post here. Plese remember the board rules when posting. Thank you and may you have a blessed day.
Mod Hat Off

paul becke · Nov 11, 2012

denim said:
There is only one set of Law in OT. There are no "other laws"

If u consider what the bible clearly states a heresy, you are in deep trouble. So far u have given no supporting bible verses on what i posted is untrue.

What about Paul's praise of his own people, the Jews, and his assertion that, one day, they will be welcomed back into the fold by Christ, their own flesh and blood. No one is more loyal to his own than Jesus. He stated that their own marginalisation was for our sakes. You can be sure that good Jews down the centuries are destined for heaven.

They weren't chosen as the agents of Christ's crucifixion because they were the worst people in the known world, but because they were the best - a people who for 2000 years and more had been prepared to provide through, their scripture and religious faith, the matrix, the very womb, of Christianity.

denim · Nov 11, 2012

paul becke said:
What about Paul's praise of his own people, the Jews, and his assertion that, one day, they will be welcomed back into the fold by Christ, their own flesh and blood. No one is more loyal to his own than Jesus. He stated that their own marginalisation was for our sakes. You can be sure that good Jews down the centuries are destined for heaven.

They weren't chosen as the agents of Christ's crucifixion because they were the worst people in the known world, but because they were the best - a people who for 2000 years and more had been prepared to provide through, their scripture and religious faith, the matrix, the very womb, of Christianity.

Perhaps you misunderstood what i posted. Christians should have nothing to do with the Law because Christ have come. But the Law still exists for others namely the Jews.

Steve Petersen · Nov 11, 2012

denim said:
Perhaps you misunderstood what i posted. Christians should have nothing to do with the Law because Christ have come. But the Law still exists for others namely the Jews.

Thank you for your opinion.

denim · Nov 11, 2012

Steve Petersen said:
Thank you for your opinion.

You are most welcome.

paul becke · Nov 12, 2012

I know it's basic Chrstian teaching, but seeing how at least one Protestant sect interprets it as giving them the green light to do what they want without divine condemnation is insane.

Paul often speaks of those who will go to hell. Neither Christ nor Paul, nor any of the Apostles taught that mere 'belief' that one is saved, ensures that one is, irrespective of the wickedness of his or her behaviour.

denim · Nov 12, 2012

paul becke said:
I know it's basic Chrstian teaching, but seeing how at least one Protestant sect interprets it as giving them the green light to do what they want without divine condemnation is insane.

Paul often speaks of those who will go to hell. Neither Christ nor Paul, nor any of the Apostles taught that mere 'belief' that one is saved, ensures that one is, irrespective of the wickedness of his or her behaviour.

Only God can truly decide if a person is really saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. We ourselves cannot judge others' salvation.

The message of John the Baptist and Jesus is the same - Repentance.

Paul tells us to "work out your salvation with fear and trembling" and "faith without works is dead"

God saved us but one can lose his salvation if he does not repent

bugkiller · Nov 14, 2012

Steve Petersen said:
Are these nullified then?

To repent and confess wrongdoings--Numbers 5:7
Not to swear falsely in G-d's Name--Leviticus 19:12
Not to take G-d's Name in vain--Exodus 20:
Not to deny possession of something entrusted to you--Leviticus 19:11
Not to swear falsely in denial of a monetary claim--Leviticus 19:11
To swear in G-d's Name to confirm the truth when deemed necessary by court--Deuteronomy 10:20
To give charity--Deuteronomy 15:11
Not to withhold charity from the poor--Deuteronomy 15:7
Not to possess inaccurate scales and weights even if they are not for use--Deuteronomy 25:13
Not to move a boundary marker to steal someone's property--Deuteronomy 19:14
Not to kidnap--Exodus 20:13
Not to rob openly--Leviticus 19:13
Not to withhold wages or fail to repay a debt--Leviticus 19:13
Not to covet and scheme to acquire another's possession--Exodus 20:14
Not to desire another's possession--Deuteronomy 5:18
Return the robbed object or its value--Leviticus 5:23
Not to ignore a lost object--Deuteronomy 22:3
Return the lost object--Deuteronomy 22:1
Not to allow pitfalls and obstacles to remain on your property--Deuteronomy 22:8
Make a guard rail around flat roofs--Deuteronomy 22:8
Not to put a stumbling block before a blind man (nor give harmful advice)--Leviticus 19:14
Help another remove the load from a beast which can no longer carry it--Exodus 23:5
Help others load their beast--Deuteronomy 22:4
Not to leave others distraught with their burdens (but to help either load or unload)--Deuteronomy 22:4

Are you trying to get us to say these things were or are no longer sin?

bugkiller

bugkiller · Nov 14, 2012

Steve Petersen said:
Do you ever answer with a simple 'yes' or 'no?'

I guess you mean to say that these laws are nullified then.

Why so you can lead us around like a bull with a ring in its nose?

bugkiller

bugkiller · Nov 14, 2012

denim said:
That is because the matter here is not as simplistic as only to requires a yes or a no.

Essentially what i am saying is that the package called OT law or Mosaic Law is nullified. God gave us the old package as a temporary contract while He prepares a new deal that is more complete, more comprehensive, wider-ranging and up-to-date, that would include the Messiah and the Holy Spirit.

The old package was definitely rudimentary and it was a static piece of document where many issues were not covered especially in a modern fast-changing world. The new deal involving the Holy Spirit was a dynamic one as the HS is able to prompt us in real time concerning modern and current issues.

One cannot continue to adhere to the old deal once the new contract is signed. Provisions in the old deal are still covered under the new deal but in a different way.

The purpose of the old deal was to convict us of Sin and condemn us to Death while the new deal was to guide, correct and illuminate us. We are no longer condemned under the new deal.

In short, the new deal is only for Christians while the old deal is still for those who have not sign on the new deal.

Would that be committing adultery as explained in Romans 7?

bugkiller

bugkiller · Nov 14, 2012

denim said:
Perhaps you misunderstood what i posted. Christians should have nothing to do with the Law because Christ have come. But the Law still exists for others namely the Jews.

bugkiller

bugkiller · Nov 14, 2012

Steve Petersen said:
So, would the Holy Spirit ever lead you to commit murder, idolatry, or adultery? Three of the Ten.

Is that the keeping of the law by incidence?HOw does that support obligation? I point everyone to Gal 5 concerning this point. It does not mention Christian behavior by keeping the law.

bugkiller

bugkiller · Nov 14, 2012

denim said:
Perhaps you think only the OT laws has exclusive rights to "Do not murder, Do not worship other Gods, Do not comjit adultery"?
And you assume the Holy Spirit would not teach us all these??

You have to be real careful not to talk about the Holy Spirit in a negative light. Jesus said Blasphemy agains the Holy Spirit is an unforgivable sin.

Great point about the domain.

bugkiler

Those who observe OT law are under a CURSE

Newbie

Senior Veteran

Newbie

Senior Veteran

Newbie

Active Member

Newbie

Legend

Regular Member

Newbie

Senior Veteran

Newbie

Regular Member

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency