This Will Blow Your Freakin Mind

[PhilosophicalBluster]

I found this video very interesting as soon as my mind stopped exploding.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQe0oiaBssg

 

[The Nihilist]

I thought that movie was the most important thing I'd ever seen until I found out about this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_the_bleep_do_we_know#Academic_reaction

Sorry dude.

 

[PhilosophicalBluster]

That's a reaction from a physics standpoint. It's illogical to use this said standpoint when the subject matter is consciousness and how it affects the world. Does the theories in it defy the laws of Newtonian Physics? Yes, because that's the whole point.

That wiki article is dubious.

that water molecules can be influenced by thought

It does not say that. What looked like water in the video was a metaphor for waves, as in force. The criticisms that the article makes are viewing the concepts of the video while still inside the bubble of Newtonian Physics. In order to explore these concepts you have to accept, if only for the purpose of debate, that your consciousness affects reality more than the laws of physics do.

 

[truthshift]

I remember watching the full thing a few years ago! :O It's floating out there on the net somewhere! Great find

 

[The Nihilist]

The full film references Masaro Emoto's work, which claims that happy thought make water freeze differently.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masaru_Emoto

 

[truthshift]

It's very very compelling. It makes you question whether mere human intention is capable of changing the material universe.

 

[Chesterton]

So reality might be subject to the (human) observer? What's that term atheists accuse Christians of being? Something like "human-centric"? That video is obviously just some Christian propaganda.

 

[The Nihilist]

We accuse y'all of plenty of things, but I don't know that I've ever heard humancentric before

 

[PhilosophicalBluster]

So reality might be subject to the (human) observer? What's that term atheists accuse Christians of being? Something like "human-centric"? That video is obviously just some Christian propaganda.

This is a question of how reality works, not simple arrogance like you are trying to oversimplify it into. You don't know how reality works, you know only what your five senses tell you.

 

[CreedIsChrist]

it does seem interesting. I always have loved science. This video almost borders in the issues of telekenesis

However I believe scientists will NEVER fully understand the brain because it is a God given instrument for our souls that will always be shrouded in mystery. The brain in itself is a miracle.

 

[Inviolable]

However I believe scientists will NEVER fully understand the brain

They're certainly trying to.

http://bluebrain.epfl.ch/

 

[CreedIsChrist]

They're certainly trying to.

http://bluebrain.epfl.ch/

yes, we may be able to manipulate and imitate pathways of the brain. But this all requires outer attunement. Never will they be able to create a mechanical brain that will spark actual emotions and personality's by itself without any exterior help. It seems most scientists have given up on trying to create an artificial intelligence that is self aware

 

[JGL53]

yes, we may be able to manipulate and imitate pathways of the brain. But this all requires outer attunement. Never will they be able to create a mechanical brain that will spark actual emotions and personality's by itself without any exterior help. It seems most scientists have given up on trying to create an artificial intelligence that is self aware

Well, what IF, hypothetically speaking, brain scientists in another twenty years WERE "able to create a mechanical brain that will spark actual emotions and personality's by itself without any exterior help."?

Would THAT even make you begin to doubt the existence of a personal god? Would ANYTHING that you can imagine scientists doing or discovering that would put you off supernatural thingies? If so, give us an example.

If not, then why do you care about this topic at all, as you have already made up your mind forever no matter what?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

It's very very compelling. It makes you question whether mere human intention is capable of changing the material universe.

Given the countless studies and tests over the years, the complete lack of evidence supporting such notions, and the overwhelming criticism of the scientific community regarding such misapplication of proper scientific terms and concepts... it really doesn't.

 

[WatersMoon110]

MOD HAT ON

Thread moved from Ethics & Morality to Physical & Life Sciences.

MOD HAT OFF
​

 

[ACougar]

Unfortunately for science, when an "in the box" solution isn't handy, religion is always ready to provide an out of the box solution. Out of the box questions like how can consciousness causes collapse of wave function or how do we define consciousness, much less all those questions about time and space outside our understanding... lead to the heresy of Quantum Mysticism.

Quantum mysticism seems to make scientists as uncomfortable today as heretical forms of mysticism made the Catholic Church in the late 15th century. The primary criticism that I've seen so far is that people are taking these quantum mysteries and using them as a launching pad for religious theories which are at best pseudo-science and at worst (in the eyes of scientists) religion.

I think it's important to remember two things: First... the questions have a basis in science however the answers do not. Second... just because the answers are based on mysticism or religion doesn't mean they can't be correct.

Given the countless studies and tests over the years, the complete lack of evidence supporting such notions, and the overwhelming criticism of the scientific community regarding such misapplication of proper scientific terms and concepts... it really doesn't.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Unfortunately for science, when an "in the box" solution isn't handy, religion is always ready to provide an out of the box solution. Out of the box questions like how can consciousness causes collapse of wave function or how do we define consciousness, much less all those questions about time and space outside our understanding... lead to the heresy of Quantum Mysticism.

Quantum mysticism seems to make scientists as uncomfortable today as heretical forms of mysticism made the Catholic Church in the late 15th century. The primary criticism that I've seen so far is that people are taking these quantum mysteries and using them as a launching pad for religious theories which are at best pseudo-science and at worst (in the eyes of scientists) religion.

Bingo. It's taking legitimate scientific concepts (the observer effect, wavefunction collapse, indeterminable observables, the uncertainty principle, etc), and twisting them to fit any old mysticism.

It's as bad as Creationists torturing the Second Law of Thermodynamics into a 'refutation' of evolution.

I think it's important to remember two things: First... the questions have a basis in science however the answers do not. Second... just because the answers are based on mysticism or religion doesn't mean they can't be correct.

Naturally. But it does mean that they are nothing more than wild conjecture without any verification or justification. We can claim whatever we like, but the real question is whether we can verify our claims. It's one thing to say that thinking angry thoughts at water will make it freeze into 'ugly' patterns, but quite another to show that this is indeed the case.

That's the difference between quantum mechanics and quantum mysticism: the former is a deduction based on experimental observation, while the latter is unsubstantiated conjecture trumped up in misapplied scientific terminology.

 

[CACTUSJACKmankin]

how the hell did the world function so well in the billions of years before the human mind? i saw what the bleep. its a bunch of bs. i really dont understand this trend of taking terms from quantum mechanics and extrapolating them to NewAgery about human consiousness influencing the physical world. when i hear about quantum mechanics, my head explodes. i cannot wrap my head around it yet these people seem to think that it's straightforward enough to make these kinds of extrapolations which have ZERO to do with physics.

 

[corvus_corax]

What the Bleep Do We Know....is.....is.....it's just.......so HORRIBLY bad! The second worst film Ive ever seen in my life!!
It's nothing more than 109 minutes of my life that I will never get back!! ARGH!!

 

[ACougar]

That's the difference between quantum mechanics and quantum mysticism: the former is a deduction based on experimental observation, while the latter is unsubstantiated conjecture trumped up in misapplied scientific terminology.

There isn't really anything wrong with this... they just need to be honest enough to point out when they leave the science box and enter the realm of faith.