This was one of the things that opened my eyes.

[Kira Light]

Chapt 7 - The Astronomy Vision

The astronomy vision.

Ellen White needs the financial support of Joseph Bates. She knows he is into astronomy so she goes into a "vision" right in front of him about the planets and their moons.

“‘One evening at the conference above mentioned [Topsham, Maine, 1846], in the house of Mr. Curtis, and in the presence of Elder (Captain) Bates, who was yet undecided in regard to the manifestations, Mrs. White, while in vision, began to talk about the stars, giving a glowing description of the rosy-tinted belts which she saw across the surface of some planet, and added, “I see four moons.” “Oh,” said Elder Bates, “she is viewing Jupiter.” Then, having made motions as though traveling through space, she began giving descriptions of belts and rings in their ever-varying beauty, and said, “I see eight † moons.” “She is describing Saturn.” Next came a description of Uranus with his six moons, then a wonderful description of the “opening heavens.”’

So the problem here is these planets have many many more moons than EGW describes. Coincidentally, EGW sees the exact number of moons for each planet that were known at the time. Furthermore, EGW claims to have no knowledge of how many moons astronomers have found at the time.

Just imagine this crazy scene. Ellen White moving around the room as if she is traveling through space, claiming to see planets and their moons, with Bates watching her in amazement.

Did God send her a false vision so that Bate's wouldn't think she was a liar? Surely saying that Jupiter has 60 or so moons would have raised some eyebrows, but why would God care so much about the support of Bates to use such deceitful tactics?

Anyway, I have never seen this vision discussed here so I thought I would bring it up and see what everyone thinks. There are some explanations at the link I have provided but they seem to be grasping to me.

 

[E.T.Elijah]

After reading the entire article, I don't see anything as grasping. I thought it contained a valid and well thought out explaination. What I did find interesting, like most misquotes, the critic doesn't include the whole passage, but just the parts that prove their criticism. But hey, thanks for the link, I hadn't been to the site before and look forward to looking around it a bit more.

 

[ricker]

After reading the entire article, I don't see anything as grasping. I thought it contained a valid and well thought out explaination. What I did find interesting, like most misquotes, the critic doesn't include the whole passage, but just the parts that prove their criticism. But hey, thanks for the link, I hadn't been to the site before and look forward to looking around it a bit more.

Would it be possible for you to elaborate on the out of context quotes, and how in context they would bring someone to a positive conclusion concerning the veracity of the vision?

 

[Kira Light]

It seems like God filled Ellen White's head with a lot of meaningless information. Why was it necessary to show her the golden keycards that the angels use to enter and exit heaven? Why give her wings and fly her to the planets to count their moons? Why show her the very tall beings on some random planet out there somewhere? Why tell her Adam was twice as tall as men are today?

It seems to me that prophets in the Bible were only given important information. Stuff that God really wanted us to know. Stuff that we could use.

 

[Brandon4Rangers]

It seems like God filled Ellen White's head with a lot of meaningless information. Why was it necessary to show her the golden keycards that the angels use to enter and exit heaven? Why give her wings and fly her to the planets to count their moons? Why show her the very tall beings on some random planet out there somewhere? Why tell her Adam was twice as tall as men are today?

It seems to me that prophets in the Bible were only given important information. Stuff that God really wanted us to know. Stuff that we could use.

I read last night that Adam was twice as tall as man, and that Cain was tremendously huge. Do you have any info on Ellen W. talking about the Essene movement, and their love of astronomy/astrology?

Thanks for the info you posted....

 

[Pythons]

Ellen did claim to have had direct communication with Extraterrestrials on their home planet...
...Given that Ellen White was informed by these Aliens that they could also fall ( sin ).
...It begs the question if the SDA Church, at the General Conference Level, has a contingency plan for an Alien attack on earth.

It would be logical to assume that an Alien culture that had millions of years without sin...
...Would have a level of science significantly past that of planet earth.
...Science that could easily be translated into their military.
...And used to subjugate the hominids of Terra.

 

[Stryder06]

It seems like God filled Ellen White's head with a lot of meaningless information. Why was it necessary to show her the golden keycards that the angels use to enter and exit heaven? Why give her wings and fly her to the planets to count their moons? Why show her the very tall beings on some random planet out there somewhere? Why tell her Adam was twice as tall as men are today?

It seems to me that prophets in the Bible were only given important information. Stuff that God really wanted us to know. Stuff that we could use.

What makes it useless? And how do you know what was totally shown to each prophet in the bible? What we have is what was given to us. This does not mean that God never showed them more then what they recorded. Ever think that God just wanted to show Sr White certain things that were beneficial for her and those around her at the time? It may not float your boat, but that doesn't make it useless.

 

[Stryder06]

Ellen did claim to have had direct communication with Extraterrestrials on their home planet...
...Given that Ellen White was informed by these Aliens that they could also fall ( sin ).
...It begs the question if the SDA Church, at the General Conference Level, has a contingency plan for an Alien attack on earth.

It would be logical to assume that an Alien culture that had millions of years without sin...
...Would have a level of science significantly past that of planet earth.
...Science that could easily be translated into their military.
...And used to subjugate the hominids of Terra.

The idea to subjugate comes from sin. Too many spaceman movies Pythons.

 

[Riddick]

Ellen did claim to have had direct communication with Extraterrestrials on their home planet...
...Given that Ellen White was informed by these Aliens that they could also fall ( sin ).
...It begs the question if the SDA Church, at the General Conference Level, has a contingency plan for an Alien attack on earth.

It would be logical to assume that an Alien culture that had millions of years without sin...
...1 Would have a level of science significantly past that of planet earth.
...2 Science that could easily be translated into their military.
...3 And used to subjugate the hominids of Terra.

multiple errors in red.

first of all, in the bible god states only man is created in his image. this would render 1,2,3 null and void. that is, man is the only living being created in the image of god. not true for other creations/life forms.

 

[Pythons]

multiple errors in red.

first of all, in the bible god states only man is created in his image. this would render 1,2,3 null and void. that is, man is the only living being created in the image of god. not true for other creations/life forms.

How much would you like to lay on the line here Riddick?
...What are you going to do when it's demonstrated to you.
...That Ellen described the E.T.'s as hominids, only much, much taller than current humanity.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

How much would you like to lay on the line here Riddick?
...What are you going to do when it's demonstrated to you.
...That Ellen described the E.T.'s as hominids, only much, much taller than current humanity.

You're such a disinfo agent...


It's the way you're describing them that is egregious... she didn't describe ET's, little greys, or anything of the sort. She talk about other worlds that God had created and the inhabitants that He had created. She also described how each world had its tree of forbidden fruit and that none had been touched except ours. Your assertions of advanced technologies used for militaristic endeavours clearly shows your intention with this thread, to once again discredit Ellens writings by equating her visions with the demonic apparitions we are experiencing today....

 

[Pythons]

You're such a disinfo agent...


It's the way you're describing them that is egregious... she didn't describe ET's, little greys, or anything of the sort. She talk about other worlds that God had created and the inhabitants that He had created. She also described how each world had its tree of forbidden fruit and that none had been touched except ours. Your assertions of advanced technologies used for militaristic endeavours clearly shows your intention with this thread, to once again discredit Ellens writings by equating her visions with the demonic apparitions we are experiencing today....

Would you agree that the inhabitants that Ellen witnesses and communicated with were hominids? The other person had said they were not.

You are right about one thing - Ellen did say each planet had it's own forbidden tree....
...And also said that one species of alien affirmed that "IF" they ate it they would fall.
...Which leaves the possibility of one species actually eating the forbidden fruit.

An advanced alien society who fell millions of years after earth would have advanced science far past our own...
...And could pose a very dangerous situtation should they come to earth.
...In an effort to colonize it or harvest raw materials.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Would you agree that the inhabitants that Ellen witnesses and communicated with were hominids? The other person had said they were not.

You are right about one thing - Ellen did say each planet had it's own forbidden tree....
...And also said that one species of alien affirmed that "IF" they ate it they would fall.
...Which leaves the possibility of one species actually eating the forbidden fruit.

An advanced alien society who fell millions of years after earth would have advanced science far past our own...
...And could pose a very dangerous situtation should they come to earth.
...In an effort to colonize it or harvest raw materials.

Once this controversy is finished and Satan is destroyed, it is my belief that these tree's of temptation will be removed. The purpose of them was to play a part in the controversy of the righteousness of God's Law and government. Once that has been established beyond all doubt the temptations will be a moot point.

The 'aliens' being witnessed today are no different than ghosts and spirits of dead releatives... all demon created to deceive.

 

[Pythons]

Once this controversy is finished and Satan is destroyed, it is my belief that these tree's of temptation will be removed. The purpose of them was to play a part in the controversy of the righteousness of God's Law and government. Once that has been established beyond all doubt the temptations will be a moot point.

The 'aliens' being witnessed today are no different than ghosts and spirits of dead releatives... all demon created to deceive.

If there are actually alien societies scattered throughout the cosmos....
...And each Planet has it's own forbidden tree.
...Then I would agree with you that it would logical that they would be removed AFTER Satan is over.

The question however remains what would prevent aliens from eating from the forbidden tree?
....And what would / could happen if this took place.
....It could have already happened.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

We are told that they are witnessing the great controversy playing out here so it would be highly unlikely they would make the same stupid mistake we did. Also, I believe, that Satan was permitted residence on which ever world fell into his trap of transgression. So maybe the spectre of the fruit being eaten again is already past.

 

[Stan Tei]

I have already contemplated this planets vision a few year ago. It is a matter of what did you know, and when did you know it? As for the time that the vision was given, the astronomers only knew a limited amount of information. God did not send her a false vision. He only allowed her to see those moons that were then known by the astronomers of her day. It was intended to be relevant only to her immediate peers, Bates et. al. It should not be made into a matter to judge against her today.

 

[Stan Tei]

Ellen did claim to have had direct communication with Extraterrestrials on their home planet...
...Given that Ellen White was informed by these Aliens that they could also fall ( sin ).
...It begs the question if the SDA Church, at the General Conference Level, has a contingency plan for an Alien attack on earth.

It would be logical to assume that an Alien culture that had millions of years without sin...
...Would have a level of science significantly past that of planet earth.
...Science that could easily be translated into their military.
...And used to subjugate the hominids of Terra.

Where would you get the idea that any other life form outside of this earth would have a "military"? And that they would have any inkling to subjugate anyone else?

 

[Pythons]

Where would you get the idea that any other life form outside of this earth would have a "military"? And that they would have any inkling to subjugate anyone else?

Ellen White explicitly stated that the aliens on other worlds COULD fall IF they ate the wrong fruit...
...IF the aliens ate the wrong fruit Ellen said they would fall into sin.
...It's logical to conclude that an alien race which had fallen in sin.
...Would at the very minimum be capable of the least of what humanity on earth has.


From what I understand - since Ellen White's communications with these alien hominidae...
...There has been "no contact" with them via SDA prophets or SDA scientists.
...While this is not proof of the aliens sinning - it's certainly not proof that have not sinned.

An alien species of hominid could have easily developed hostile tech....
...Combined with the possibility of space travel this could pose a serious problem for Planet earth.

 

[Alawishis]

If I stood in a forest and said I saw 20 trees would you call me a liar once you discovered on your own the forest had hundreds or thousands of trees. If all I can see is 20 trees why would you doubt that I saw them? I don't think the purpose of God's visions are meant to be an astronomy lesson. She described what she saw, as would any of us. If she named the moons and got the names wrong, or said something about green cheese, that may be concerning. But here it doesn't even sound like she names the planets she is seeing; she only describes them. Elder Bates guesses what planets they are she is sees based on the description.

The same mistake is made when people look at the bible and point out apparent scientific errors. For example the anatomy of insects, or the smallest seeds, or that a firmament is not a scientifically accurate description of the sky. Have you not heard any of these then check out some Atheist websites, this is the same thing you are doing here. The bible also is not meant to be a scientific manual any more than Mrs.White vision was.

 

[Stan Tei]

Righ on Alawishis, if God only showed her what He knew that Bates had in his mind, then the purpose was served.

Python, you should drop your posts here and go over to some fiction site, you can write to your heart's content about all the alien stuff you want. If there was going to be some alien invasion from some other fallen planet, then God would have included that in the prophecies He gave us.