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It appears that you don't understand what I've been trying to get across!Don't rest in what you can do. It was not designed to be that way and if you were more spiritual you would see that, but you are so into yourself and what you do.
What does that have to do with OSAS or Easy Grace?It appears that you don't understand what I've been trying to get across!
I am strictly preaching against those "believers"
who utilize their God-given free will
to NOT co-operate with the Holy Spirit,
but instead are involved with habitual unrepentant sin
(which is exactly what Paul was always warning about).
Today's churches are filled with this type of pastors and sheep.
Hello!
Before I consider the site, please actually consider what I posted about election. I never came close to suggesting that electrion isn't about being chosen. In fact, I used the word "chosen" in my post, which it seems you didn't really read, or at least very closely.Unless one understands the meaning of the words, the two trying to communicate are speaking a foreign language one to the other.
Which is why you beware of false doctrine, because it sounds logical or nice, still it is a twisted lie of Satan.
You claim election is not being chosen, however consider this
https://www.blueletterbible.org/nkjv/mar/13/1/t_conc_970020
Mar 13:20
Sure. Do you know the context for this verse? It is the Tribulation. Who are the "elect" here, from Jesus' perspective? The nation of Israel. And we know from Revelation that Israel will be surrounded by the world's armies, set on destroying them WHEN the Messiah returns in all His glory and He immediately destroys all the armies, so that blood runs as high as a horse's bridle for about 180 miles. That's a lot of blood.“And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake, whom He chose, He shortened the days.
Who are the "us" in that verse? Paul defines who the "us" are in 1:19 - and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might\Eph 1:4
just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
Strongs=G1586
ἐκλέγομαι, eklegomai means to pick out, choose, to pick or choose out for one's self
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1586&t=NKJV
I proved it by the list I gave. 6 categories, ALL described as "elect" and none of them are about being chosen for salvation.However your teaching is the elect are chosen not for salvation, which is a false teaching.
Just throwing out verses with the word "chosen" or even "elect" doesn't prove anything.
as in the verse
“So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen.”
You could not be more wrong. Salvation itself demonstrates and PROVES that God is sovereign. If not for Him and His plan, no one would be saved.Exactly what the meme was pointing out - people just love to make salvation about any thing except God's sovereignty - which is exactly what you just did.
You could not be more wrong. Salvation itself demonstrates and PROVES that God is sovereign. If not for Him and His plan, no one would be saved.
I really have no idea why you think I removed God's sovereignty from salvation, unless it is the false idea that God chooses to save men apart from any condition on their part. That is false because salvation is ALWAYS based on believing the gospel, or faith in Christ.
That is a condition. Again, the Calvinist doctrine claims that God regenerates those He has chosen to save and, as a result of being regenerated can now believe. But that gets the cart WAY before the horse.
Consider 1 Cor 1:21 for what occurs first: For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
There it is in straight forward language: God was well-pleased to save those who believe. That's who He chooses to save: believers.
The Calvinist logic results in having God choose who will believe, by their incorrect view of election and regeneration preceding faith in Christ.
But God does not choose who will believe and then save them. He chooses to save those who believe.
How exactly does John 3:6-8 prove that regeneration comes before salvation?I don't consider anything that you have to say regarding scripture any more. It makes no sense to me. It wasn't too long ago as I recall that you said that mercy and compassion were included in salvation and then completely ignored Paul's reference to both in election in Romans 9.
God DOES choose whom He will to save. Period. It's not based on human will or exertion - Rom 9:16. Regeneration comes first - John 3:6-8. The Calvinist logic is based on scripture. To say otherwise is a lie.
The Holy Spirit is sent to indwell the Christian as part of their salvation.Being born of the Spirit in the Spirit is the same thing as regeneration - right?
That's old history by now. I said let's start over from the beginning as if there had been a simple misunderstanding between us before.You said that I hated you.
I said I do not hate anyone. I may hate the theology but I don't hate the sinner (person)
Then, assuming that this is simply a misunderstanding as well, answer the main question that I asked you before asking the above. Then perhaps we can dialog again about my doctrine vs. yours.Why do you call me a sinner (other than the fact that we are all, in the natural, sinners)? Or is it actually me and others who believe like me whom you are calling sinners because of our doctrines?
Exactly what theological teaching of mine do you hate and why do you hate it?
I did not do that.Marvin,
Have not been involved in the conversation completely but you confused me.
Post #648
Post #662
Post #668
Why did you go through at least 2 posts explaining that generation is birth? only to say that generation is not birth?
They exist at the same time.When will any Calvinist provide a Scripture to support this unsupported claim?
Regeneration and salvation occur at the same time. I can take you through the grammar of 1 Jn 5:1 to prove it. The "believing ones" is a present participle, and they occur at the SAME TIME as the action of the main verb. The main verb is "has been born of God". They occur at the same time. End of discussion.
If you want to let it go, let's let it go. Othewise, let's just let it be. I've explained twice and if you do not understand now, you are not going tooThat's old history by now. I said let's start over from the beginning as if there had been a simple misunderstanding between us before.
So I ask you again.
Then, assuming that this is simply a misunderstanding as well, answer the main question that I asked you before asking the above. Then perhaps we can dialog again about my doctrine vs. yours.
Why do you not just explain what you believe exists and occurs during salvation? That sounds much simpler and will get us to the point quicker.They exist at the same time.
That is not the same as saying that they "occur" at the same time.
I'm using the two words in the way shown below.
"exist" = to have real being whether material or spiritual
"occur" = to come into existence : to happen
You are using the two words in quite another way. One that is not warranted by the grammar of the passage in 1 John 5:1. You seem to do that sort of thing a lot here.
FG...just as a note on both of these. When they mention "partakers" or use 'metachoi' the "partnership" is not with Christ, it is with other partakers.Actually, the Bible does describe certain believers as partners. Heb 3:1 and 3:14 use the word "metachoi".
metochos
1) sharing in, partaking
2) a partner (in a work, office, dignity)
However, the word is never used in any sense of helping Christ to save us, as ZachB suggested. It's about fellowship with Him. Those who are "in fellowship" are His partners.
Do you regenerated as your word instead of born-again? Born-again is biblical, so why make it so confusing.Nicodemus apparently misunderstood the facts that natural men are spiritually dead and that they needed to be regenerated in order that they could enter into the Kingdom of God under the Lordship of the Holy Spirit of God.
Diagree.Whatever else spiritual life entails - all theologians have agreed that to be spiritually alive is to be united again with the Holy Spirit. Those not united with Him are dead and need that connection that was severed in the fall of Adam.
To say that I have no idea what you are talking about it is an understatement.It appears that you read that opinion and decided that you needed to counter it with a nasty counter opinion. IMO you did it simply because you hate me because you believe (wrongly) that I am a Calvinist.
So a miscommunication or just a hindrance of the printed word vs face to face.I did not do that.
Now this I agree with...is something I have stated before as well.What is necessary is a "new creation" - a creation wherein the Holy Spirit now resides as He did in the case of the first Adam who had the breath of "lives" breathed into his breathing places when he was first created.
Now this I have a bit of a difference of opinion on. For only natural men can come to know Jesus, those that are spiritual already know Jesus. It is only a natural man who seeks God for salvation, because someone who is saved is already saved.No natural man seeks God. No natural man can come to Jesus. No natural man can understand in a truly heartfelt way and apply to their own life the Spiritual truths embodied in the gospel and the Word of God in general.
And see...here is something else we agree withOften times Reformed theologians go too far in their systematic methods and use false logic themselves to teach these things. So called "limited atonement" is a good example of their logic taking certain scriptures too far and winding up muddying the waters and teaching falsehoods themselves. They are not (as is the other side often) letting their emotions hold sway. They are instead IMO letting merely human logic hold sway when writing their theologies. Limited atonement as it is often taught (and very prominently here in this section of the forum) is a perfect example of human logic being taken too far.
Amen to that.Quick cursory posts just don't do the subject justice IMO.
The whole idea from my perspective is not to teach these things in the depth that would be done in a class or in a systematic theology paper on the subject.
I would settle for just tweaking the noble spirit of some Berean enough that he would at least investigate where the other side gets it's ideas. Those Bereans hopefully will come from the full on Calvinist side of things and from the emotionally charge opposition as well
Great!If you want to let it go, let's let it go. Othewise, let's just let it be. I've explained twice and if you do not understand now, you are not going too
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