FreeGrace2
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How about starting with the 13 verses I noted in my post?Interesting, scripture please?
*****Oops, how do I separate all your points?******
How about starting with the 13 verses I noted in my post?
Uh, yeah, that was part of my point. And when you realize that v.5 equates being "made alive" with "have been saved", you will realize when you read v.8 that faith PRECEDES salvation and being made alive.
Grace does NOT come later. v.8 is later, sure. But v.8 tells us WHEN faith occurs; before salvation, which means before being made alive.
We are saved (made alive) by grace THROUGH FAITH.
So, still want to argue that faith comes later?
If we are saved through faith, how can it be later than being saved?
Uh, yeah, that was part of my point. And when you realize that v.5 equates being "made alive" with "have been saved", you will realize when you read v.8 that faith PRECEDES salvation and being made alive.
Grace does NOT come later. v.8 is later, sure. But v.8 tells us WHEN faith occurs; before salvation, which means before being made alive.
We are saved (made alive) by grace THROUGH FAITH.
So, still want to argue that faith comes later?
If we are saved through faith, how can it be later than being saved?
Did God give Abraham and Noah the faith or did they pick it up along the way?Yes..man has faith, God gives hope. God does not give man both the thing to hope for and the how to hope for it....He gives man the Hope. God did not give Adam the faith to believe that eating of the fruit would cause death. It was because of Adam's faith that he did not before that time. It was by Abraham's faith that he offered up his son. It was because of Noah's faith that he built the ark as God commanded. Man has faith when it even comes to things that are not spiritual...I have faith that when I put my key in the ignition and turn it that my truck will start. Faith is not just spiritual, even the Biblical description used in Hebrews 11 is not restricted to things of the Spirit.
Yes, you tried. But didn't succeed.I have tried to show you several times with a dozen verses that a "dead man" can't have faith.
Your story is also as flawed as the first one. Your view equates being spiritually dead with being physically dead, which misses the whole point.I have heard this story on several occasions.....a man is drowning, going under for the third time. This time for good. But a life preserver is tossed to him and the man grasp it with his finger tips and then pulled towards the bot where he is saved.
That story is often used as an analogy towards ones salvation. But it is flawed.
In reality we have already drowned. Were floating on the bottom of the lake. Dead. We can't grasp the life preserver. Were dead. God Himself has to jump in, grab us, bring us to the top and then give us life. Regenerate us.
Another flawed story, and not relevant to how one is saved.Or, it's like the man about to die....God is holding out the medicine on a spoon and all the guy has to do is stick out his tongue and touch the medicine and he will live. But, once again this is flawed. To live the man can do nothing. God has to dump the medicine down the mans throat to be saved.
Correct. All I can do is RECEIVE God's salvation. Which is by grace (I don't earn or deserve it) THROUGH faith.You have no part in your salvation. It is all God.
Since Paul equated being "made alive" with "have been saved" in Eph 2:5 and then said in v.8 that we are saved through faith, your statement is in error. Faith, then regeneration.Regeneration then faith.
I have no part. I can only receive God's salvation. He provides ALL of it. I contributed nothing to my salvation, as it was offered to me complete already.Or do you claim you have a part in your salvation?
But Eph 2:8 tells us that we are saved (made alive from v.5) through faith. Therefore, faith comes SOONER, not later.That's not what I said. I said faith comes later as it is what is also given to us at the moment of regeneration.
Faith as a noun is a gift. God gives us the body of knowledge (faith) that we are to believe....are you still denying faith is a gift from God?
Why then are not all in Christ? If regeneration comes first.You have no part in your salvation. It is all God. Regeneration then faith. Or do you claim you have a part in your salvation?
Can you answer the question? If you can't that's OK.Why then are not all in Christ? If regeneration comes first.
But Eph 2:8 tells us that we are saved (made alive from v.5) through faith. Therefore, faith comes SOONER, not later.
Faith as a noun is a gift. God gives us the body of knowledge (faith) that we are to believe.
The action of believing is not a gift.
I come to God in faith and belief.Can you answer the question? If you can't that's OK.
I come to God in faith and belief.
Now answer my previous question. Thanks.
Why then are not all in Christ? If regeneration comes first.
No. No. No. It does not work that way, we come to Christ in faith.Actually God came to you. Chose you.
What makes you seem so special that you had the ability to choose Jesus as your savior?
Who calls you? Draws you? Gives you to Jesus? Regenerates you? Gives you the faith to believe?No. No. No. It does not work that way, we come to Christ in faith.
Yes, the regeneration is of His grace, faith coming after and good works after that.
Notice our faith is not even mentioned here by Paul, just His grace, the faith comes later.
Titus 3
3 For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another.
4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared,
5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable to men.
No. No. No. It does not work that way, we come to Christ in faith.
I don't see any connection between my comment and your response. I noted from Scripture that salvation (being made alive) is through faith. Proving that faith (belief in the gospel) precedes regeneration. Which you've not refuted.Why doesn't God give everybody enough faith to believe? (that seems to be your claim. Correct me if I'm wrong)
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