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This is the kicker, you are assuming all mutations confer adaptation to the current Evolution?

Supplanting Design with Evolution...

  • ...is final

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ...is a choice

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ...is a choice that can be reverted

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ...is a choice that gains some and loses some

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ...is a choice God can effect perfectly

    Votes: 2 100.0%

  • Total voters
    2

Gottservant

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Hi there,

So yes, I worked out that Evolution isn't happening again and again and that it can't be found everywhere, I worked out that mutation is biased to assume creation, and that warning from wayward mutations is being ignored: now I have a complaint that mutations may be delaying adaptation of the current 'Evolution'?

Think about it, if you mutate the current generation, you get an adaptive response, from the current generation, and if you add to that mutation, you get a more intense response - but what if what mutates is the past DNA that is still in the current generation? What if my Dad passes on a gene with association to Macadamia nuts - and I mutate that, instead of my personal taste for macadamia nuts? These are two different things, that affect my survival in relation to macadamia nuts?

The Bible teaches us that there are a number of generations, in the blood line of an individual and that the sins of one generation can be passed on to the next to the third and fourth generation. What does this mean in terms of Evolution? It means that things like instinct and perspective and context and expectation, can all accumulate over generations, benefiting from the "Evolution" of one generation to the next - it may be subconscious, it may be conscious, but it is most certainly not simply imagination or whim. The overall advantage of this, is extreme, since it comes to the point where even the Evolution expected may change.

If you can believe there is something that unites the generations, you have something that can transcend "Evolution", since 'Evolution' is something perfunctory that increases from generation to generation, without anything being set in stone - you may like it to become more stable, but it is nothing more than a function of populations. Each generation contributes what it will, but the overall difference to Evolution, is a distraction to passing on what is desired to the next generation. Think of it like keys to the car, the cars give you access to the car, but a change of keys doesn't bring you a change of car - necessarily. No, to reach beyond 'Evolution' you must deny it.

The power of Evolution, is that it can form a bridge between one generation and the next, where previously the elder generation would lord it over the younger, to catch up and be where they are (the older generation's Evolution). No, instead the younger is able to make an end of their current generation and copy in strength the struggle with Evolution that the previous generation struggled with, but for a different end. The more intensely the younger generation struggles with the remainder of their Evolution, the clearer the next generation to them will be able to see how their parent generation has been grafted on to what remains.

This grafting is what empowers Evolution as an interpretation, that transcends generations - the grafting of power to the fearful, dispels fear. Thus the younger generation is able to ask God for a change to subsequent generations, on the basis of faith in God, with an Evolution in Himself that no one is able to even slightly approach. God is above adaptation - His being is perfect. This power frightens the enemy, the predators of this world, because power that transcends this world cannot be made to fear, while retaining all authority over the stuff of that "fear". Evolution is a stepping stone, to being promoted in the sight of God, to return or supplant or graft as is growth hard to endure.

If no one generation is happy with their Evolution, they can always recede to design, the point is that God does not enforce "design" even from one generation to the next - but that every subsequent generation must consider the difference for themselves. That is rather the point, design does not only reempower survival strong responses to life's selection pressures, but rather it enables the predators to leave his design behind, to go on hunt, and then decide that a return to "original" design will for a season prove beneficial. Evolutionists don't tell you this: but there is mercy even for them.

The whole point of this, is to point out that Evolution has a lateral dimension, of coming and going in "Evolution" that at the best can only supplant - there is something greater than Evolution, that can graft, putting together power with power. This cannot be mistaken for weakness, because it is a bringing together of weaknesses, for greater strength, not ad hoc gambling with supplanting, to make inculcated with the rest found so far - but a lasting an permanent rest, that is further ahead, to what the greatest combination of strengths can bring: the God, of gods in general - who does not destroy gods, to make a point, but who hands those who will not believe, over to destruction.

Make of it what you will, but rest assured there is more than you can do to survive, than rest on its inculcation. God bless your effort to interpret this soundly.
 

zelosravioli

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"... Evolution isn't happening again and again and that it can't be found everywhere"

I can agree with that but your verbiage is a bit hard to follow after that.

"The Bible teaches us that there are a number of generations, in the blood line of an individual and that the sins of one generation can be passed on to the next to the third and fourth generation"

The idea expressed in scripture that 'the sins of one generation can be passed on' is used by the pentecostals to justify a spiritual sin being passed, thus exorcisms, but I do not believe scripture is speaking of either a spiritual sin or a genetic sin - it is simply our mimicking the sinful behavior of our ancestors. In other words we sin just like they do, we're no better than they are.
 
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Shemjaza

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Hi there,

So yes, I worked out that Evolution isn't happening again and again and that it can't be found everywhere, I worked out that mutation is biased to assume creation, and that warning from wayward mutations is being ignored: now I have a complaint that mutations may be delaying adaptation of the current 'Evolution'?

Think about it, if you mutate the current generation, you get an adaptive response, from the current generation, and if you add to that mutation, you get a more intense response - but what if what mutates is the past DNA that is still in the current generation? What if my Dad passes on a gene with association to Macadamia nuts - and I mutate that, instead of my personal taste for macadamia nuts? These are two different things, that affect my survival in relation to macadamia nuts?

The Bible teaches us that there are a number of generations, in the blood line of an individual and that the sins of one generation can be passed on to the next to the third and fourth generation. What does this mean in terms of Evolution? It means that things like instinct and perspective and context and expectation, can all accumulate over generations, benefiting from the "Evolution" of one generation to the next - it may be subconscious, it may be conscious, but it is most certainly not simply imagination or whim. The overall advantage of this, is extreme, since it comes to the point where even the Evolution expected may change.

If you can believe there is something that unites the generations, you have something that can transcend "Evolution", since 'Evolution' is something perfunctory that increases from generation to generation, without anything being set in stone - you may like it to become more stable, but it is nothing more than a function of populations. Each generation contributes what it will, but the overall difference to Evolution, is a distraction to passing on what is desired to the next generation. Think of it like keys to the car, the cars give you access to the car, but a change of keys doesn't bring you a change of car - necessarily. No, to reach beyond 'Evolution' you must deny it.

The power of Evolution, is that it can form a bridge between one generation and the next, where previously the elder generation would lord it over the younger, to catch up and be where they are (the older generation's Evolution). No, instead the younger is able to make an end of their current generation and copy in strength the struggle with Evolution that the previous generation struggled with, but for a different end. The more intensely the younger generation struggles with the remainder of their Evolution, the clearer the next generation to them will be able to see how their parent generation has been grafted on to what remains.

This grafting is what empowers Evolution as an interpretation, that transcends generations - the grafting of power to the fearful, dispels fear. Thus the younger generation is able to ask God for a change to subsequent generations, on the basis of faith in God, with an Evolution in Himself that no one is able to even slightly approach. God is above adaptation - His being is perfect. This power frightens the enemy, the predators of this world, because power that transcends this world cannot be made to fear, while retaining all authority over the stuff of that "fear". Evolution is a stepping stone, to being promoted in the sight of God, to return or supplant or graft as is growth hard to endure.

If no one generation is happy with their Evolution, they can always recede to design, the point is that God does not enforce "design" even from one generation to the next - but that every subsequent generation must consider the difference for themselves. That is rather the point, design does not only reempower survival strong responses to life's selection pressures, but rather it enables the predators to leave his design behind, to go on hunt, and then decide that a return to "original" design will for a season prove beneficial. Evolutionists don't tell you this: but there is mercy even for them.

The whole point of this, is to point out that Evolution has a lateral dimension, of coming and going in "Evolution" that at the best can only supplant - there is something greater than Evolution, that can graft, putting together power with power. This cannot be mistaken for weakness, because it is a bringing together of weaknesses, for greater strength, not ad hoc gambling with supplanting, to make inculcated with the rest found so far - but a lasting an permanent rest, that is further ahead, to what the greatest combination of strengths can bring: the God, of gods in general - who does not destroy gods, to make a point, but who hands those who will not believe, over to destruction.

Make of it what you will, but rest assured there is more than you can do to survive, than rest on its inculcation. God bless your effort to interpret this soundly.

You are mistaken again.

Evolution isn't a choice.
Evolution isn't an object.
Evolution isn't a possession.
An individual doesn't have an evolution.
A generation doesn't have an evolution.


Not all mutations are beneficial... so not all mutations can cause an adaption.
 
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Frank Robert

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Hi there,

So yes, I worked out that Evolution isn't happening again and again and that it can't be found everywhere, I worked out that mutation is biased to assume creation, and that warning from wayward mutations is being ignored: now I have a complaint that mutations may be delaying adaptation of the current 'Evolution'?

Think about it, if you mutate the current generation, you get an adaptive response, from the current generation, and if you add to that mutation, you get a more intense response - but what if what mutates is the past DNA that is still in the current generation? What if my Dad passes on a gene with association to Macadamia nuts - and I mutate that, instead of my personal taste for macadamia nuts? These are two different things, that affect my survival in relation to macadamia nuts?

The Bible teaches us that there are a number of generations, in the blood line of an individual and that the sins of one generation can be passed on to the next to the third and fourth generation. What does this mean in terms of Evolution? It means that things like instinct and perspective and context and expectation, can all accumulate over generations, benefiting from the "Evolution" of one generation to the next - it may be subconscious, it may be conscious, but it is most certainly not simply imagination or whim. The overall advantage of this, is extreme, since it comes to the point where even the Evolution expected may change.

If you can believe there is something that unites the generations, you have something that can transcend "Evolution", since 'Evolution' is something perfunctory that increases from generation to generation, without anything being set in stone - you may like it to become more stable, but it is nothing more than a function of populations. Each generation contributes what it will, but the overall difference to Evolution, is a distraction to passing on what is desired to the next generation. Think of it like keys to the car, the cars give you access to the car, but a change of keys doesn't bring you a change of car - necessarily. No, to reach beyond 'Evolution' you must deny it.

The power of Evolution, is that it can form a bridge between one generation and the next, where previously the elder generation would lord it over the younger, to catch up and be where they are (the older generation's Evolution). No, instead the younger is able to make an end of their current generation and copy in strength the struggle with Evolution that the previous generation struggled with, but for a different end. The more intensely the younger generation struggles with the remainder of their Evolution, the clearer the next generation to them will be able to see how their parent generation has been grafted on to what remains.

This grafting is what empowers Evolution as an interpretation, that transcends generations - the grafting of power to the fearful, dispels fear. Thus the younger generation is able to ask God for a change to subsequent generations, on the basis of faith in God, with an Evolution in Himself that no one is able to even slightly approach. God is above adaptation - His being is perfect. This power frightens the enemy, the predators of this world, because power that transcends this world cannot be made to fear, while retaining all authority over the stuff of that "fear". Evolution is a stepping stone, to being promoted in the sight of God, to return or supplant or graft as is growth hard to endure.

If no one generation is happy with their Evolution, they can always recede to design, the point is that God does not enforce "design" even from one generation to the next - but that every subsequent generation must consider the difference for themselves. That is rather the point, design does not only reempower survival strong responses to life's selection pressures, but rather it enables the predators to leave his design behind, to go on hunt, and then decide that a return to "original" design will for a season prove beneficial. Evolutionists don't tell you this: but there is mercy even for them.

The whole point of this, is to point out that Evolution has a lateral dimension, of coming and going in "Evolution" that at the best can only supplant - there is something greater than Evolution, that can graft, putting together power with power. This cannot be mistaken for weakness, because it is a bringing together of weaknesses, for greater strength, not ad hoc gambling with supplanting, to make inculcated with the rest found so far - but a lasting an permanent rest, that is further ahead, to what the greatest combination of strengths can bring: the God, of gods in general - who does not destroy gods, to make a point, but who hands those who will not believe, over to destruction.

Make of it what you will, but rest assured there is more than you can do to survive, than rest on its inculcation. God bless your effort to interpret this soundly.
You keep harping on design which there is no evidence for while there is a consilience (convergence of evidence) of evidence from multiple independent, science fields and sources. Intelligent design is a "god of the gaps fallacy" which does not supplant natural phenomena that adequately and overwhelmingly confirm evolution. ID is a religious belief w/o evidence.
 
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RDKirk

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You are mistaken again.

Evolution isn't a choice.
Evolution isn't an object.
Evolution isn't a possession.
An individual doesn't have an evolution.
A generation doesn't have an evolution.


Not all mutations are beneficial... so not all mutations can cause an adaption.

Throwing everything against the wall, and some things stick. What doesn't stick is irrelevant.
 
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tas8831

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Hi there,

So yes, I worked out that Evolution isn't happening again and again
No you didn't.
You do not even UNDERSTAND the basics of evolution, despite your YEARS of ranting and raving on this (and probably other) forum.
 
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tas8831

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"... Evolution isn't happening again and again and that it can't be found everywhere"

I can agree with that but your verbiage is a bit hard to follow after that.
Why do you agree?
 
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tas8831

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You are mistaken again.

Evolution isn't a choice.
Evolution isn't an object.
Evolution isn't a possession.
An individual doesn't have an evolution.
A generation doesn't have an evolution.


Not all mutations are beneficial... so not all mutations can cause an adaption.
Should this guy NOT know ALL of that by now?

He is either a next-level spam-troll Poe, or just another under-informed yet overly confident example of the Dunning-Kruger effect, further brainwashed by religionism.
 
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Shemjaza

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Throwing everything against the wall, and some things stick. What doesn't stick is irrelevant.

That's also what I'm trying... I just wish something would sink into Gottservant's mind so they could at least consider it.

Should this guy NOT know ALL of that by now?

He is either a next-level spam-troll Poe, or just another under-informed yet overly confident example of the Dunning-Kruger effect, further brainwashed by religionism.

I believe Gottservant has some real trouble with intrusive thoughts and maintaining coherent ideas about the world.

That's a tragic difficulty for someone to face, but it doesn't justify repeatedly ignoring when people explain what they believe or accept in favour of imagined versions.
 
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tas8831

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Hi there,

So yes, I worked out that Evolution isn't happening again and again and that it can't be found everywhere,
You did not do any of that. Your goofy strawman nonsense is laughed at by anyone with above a 5th grade knowledge of science.
 
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Ophiolite

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You did not do any of that. Your goofy strawman nonsense is laughed at by anyone with above a 5th grade knowledge of science.
For me, it has got to the point where I am much closer to weeping than laughing.
 
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Gottservant

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I don't know why you can't see it.

A mutation may be for a past generation, or a present generation, or a future generation.

The individual may die in the present and be born in future, or one born in the future may throwback to the past.
 
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gaara4158

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I don't know why you can't see it.

A mutation may be for a past generation, or a present generation, or a future generation.

The individual may die in the present and be born in future, or one born in the future may throwback to the past.
Mutations aren’t “for” anything. They just happen. What you’re saying is deeply unscientific.
 
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