This is Pathetic

DMagoh · Jun 7, 2007

Tinker Grey said:
What I wanna know is how DMagoh, et al., intend to "turn a sinner from the error of his way" if they want to disallow discussion -- or at the very least, whine about people discussing stuff.

Obviously you didnt read the thread before posting. Earlier I said...

DMagoh said:
It has been discussed openly, they see the verses saying that homosexual sex and premarital sex is sin, and then they try to twist the verses and reinterpret words, and make complicated explanations for other verses.

It HAS been discussed over and over with the same people and they keep making the same comments...

that verse is only talking about homosexual rapists
that verse is only talking about homosexual sex in pagan worship
that verse is only talking about heterosexuals engaging in homosexual sex
that verse is only talking about inhospitality
that verse is only talking about uncleanliness

They dont want to know the truth.

3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
2 Timothy 4:2-4

desmalia · Jun 7, 2007

DMagoh said:
I'm sorry, I just cant believe some of the members of this "christian" forum. Not only are there numerous threads debating how great God thinks homosexual sex is, there are also threads debating whether sex before marriage is even a sin.

Jesus said to deny yourself and take up your cross...not if it feels good, do it!

The rich man turned around and walked off because he wanted eternal life, but he wasnt willing to follow Jesus. Some on this forum want it both ways. I can accept His gift of eternal life, and still not follow Him.

It's a sad day when a "christian" forum has debates about homosexuality and premarital sex.

Totally agree. Thank you for posting this. It is a sad day when Christians are attacked on a Christian forum for standing up for God's Scriptural truth. In fact I am beginning to see why so many great members have started walking away from this place lately. Places like this can be great places to talk about God's truth in detail and build each other up to be more Christlike. But when we have to remove that option in the name of "tolerance" there is really little point in posting at all.

DMagoh · Jun 7, 2007

desmalia said:
Totally agree. Thank you for posting this. It is a sad day when Christians are attacked on a Christian forum for standing up for God's Scriptural truth. In fact I am beginning to see why so many great members have started walking away from this place lately. Places like this can be great places to talk about God's truth in detail and build each other up to be more Christlike. But when we have to remove that option in the name of "tolerance" there is really little point in posting at all.

Preach on sister!

Tinker Grey · Jun 7, 2007

You also said

DMagoh said:
It's a sad day when a "christian" forum has debates about homosexuality and premarital sex.

DMagoh said:
They dont want to know the truth.

Rather arrogant to presume to know people's hearts.

The fact that you mention that you think it's been discussed to death doesn't obviate the fact that you apparently you want people to stop talking about. Your post doesn't negate my observation.

I would further observe that the fact that it is continually discussed and debated is some indication that it needs to be.

DMagoh · Jun 7, 2007

Tinker Grey said:
I would further observe that the fact that it is continually discussed and debated is some indication that it needs to be.

Actually I think it's an indication of man's sinful condition that they can read black words on white paper and deny what it says.

Jedi · Jun 7, 2007

Dmagoh said:
Actually I think it's an indication of man's sinful condition that they can read black words on white paper and deny what it says.

In some cases perhaps, but it's foolish to think that everything in scripture is clear as day and anyone who disagrees with your understanding must be motivated out of some evil desire. How much more arrogant can we be? "If you disagree with me, you're doing so because you hate the truth and want to be evil." Come on...

DMagoh · Jun 7, 2007

Jedi said:
In some cases perhaps, but it's foolish to think that everything in scripture is clear as day and anyone who disagrees with your understanding must be motivated out of some evil desire. How much more arrogant can we be? "If you disagree with me, you're doing so because you hate the truth and want to be evil." Come on...

So you believe there'a an "innocent" way to read this verse and NOT think homosexual sex is a sin?

27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. Romans 1:27

It clearly says:

men abandoning natural relations with women
men inflamed with lust for one another
men committing indecent acts with other men

and because of that, they

receive the due penalty for their perversion

How do you misinterpret that?

bliz · Jun 7, 2007

DMagoh said:
Well, there's where you messed up. It's not about what you think, it's about what God said in His Word.

In Proverbs 27:17 God says: 17 As iron sharpens iron,
so one man sharpens another.

If such matters are not discussed on a Christian web site, where should we discuss them?

desmalia · Jun 7, 2007

Jedi said:
In some cases perhaps, but it's foolish to think that everything in scripture is clear as day and anyone who disagrees with your understanding must be motivated out of some evil desire. How much more arrogant can we be? "If you disagree with me, you're doing so because you hate the truth and want to be evil." Come on...

Twisting Scripture or ignoring it all together for the sake of following one's own will is not exactly holy or honouring to God now is it?

It's one thing to sin, know you're sinning, and have a struggle with it. It's quite another to create your own doctrine to support your own ideas or behaviour. Unfortunately that is what goes on around here quite a bit.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that debate is a bad thing or that people shouldn't be allowed to do it. It's just frustrating to see such a growing number of people denying God's word, or claiming His truth is subjective and "open to personal interpretation". God's truth is perfect, objective, and unchanging, no matter how we feel about it. Certainly there are some minor issues that we can debate and discuss, and disagree on (such as YEC vs. OEC, or OSAS, etc.). But these are not central to the faith and not serious enough to draw people from the faith or encourage ongoing sin. Sexual sin is a huge, huge, huge problem in our society and the church today. We cannot afford to be wishy-washy on this issue.

We're talking about people accepting, condoning, defending, and even encouraging ongoing sin within the body of Christ. I'm sorry but that is not Love as defined in the Bible. We are not to condemn each other to hell, but we are supposed to hold each other accountable. That is part of the sanctification process that is basic to every Christian.

DMagoh · Jun 7, 2007

bliz said:
In Proverbs 27:17 God says: 17 As iron sharpens iron,
so one man sharpens another.

If such matters are not discussed on a Christian web site, where should we discuss them?

They are NOT being discussed. Homosexuals and people engaging in pre-marital sex are just vigorously stating that they can live that way as a Christian and it's NOT sin, and just continually deny the verses you point out to them that clearly show it's sin.

YOU have not attempted to carry on a discussion with these people or you would know what I am talking about. They are not questioning and wondering - they are militant homosexuals that are trying to convince young men who ARE questioning and wondering that homosexual sex is great in God's eyes.

DMagoh · Jun 7, 2007

desmalia said:
Twisting Scripture or ignoring it all together for the sake of following one's own will is not exactly holy or honouring to God now is it?

It's one thing to sin, know you're sinning, and have a struggle with it. It's quite another to create your own doctrine to support your own ideas or behaviour. Unfortunately that is what goes on around here quite a bit.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that debate is a bad thing or that people shouldn't be allowed to do it. It's just frustrating to see such a growing number of people denying God's word, or claiming His truth is subjective and "open to personal interpretation". God's truth is perfect, objective, and unchanging, no matter how we feel about it. Certainly there are some minor issues that we can debate and discuss, and disagree on (such as YEC vs. OEC, or OSAS, etc.). But these are not central to the faith and not serious enough to draw people from the faith or encourage ongoing sin. Sexual sin is a huge, huge, huge problem in our society and the church today. We cannot afford to be wishy-washy on this issue.

We're talking about people accepting, condoning, defending, and even encouraging ongoing sin within the body of Christ. I'm sorry but that is not Love as defined in the Bible. We are not to condemn each other to hell, but we are supposed to hold each other accountable. That is part of the sanctification process that is basic to every Christian.

Very well said.

tulc · Jun 7, 2007

They are not questioning and wondering - they are militant homosexuals that are trying to convince young men who ARE questioning and wondering that homosexual sex is great in God's eyes. (emph. added)

Really? I thought it was Christians telling other Christians that they aren't "REALLY" Christians.
tulc(who isn't gay OR militant)

Dannager · Jun 7, 2007

desmalia said:
It is a sad day when Christians are attacked on a Christian forum for standing up for God's Scriptural truth.

That's not what you're being attacked for, and I'm a little appalled that someone could spend any significant amount of time here and still think that standing up for God is your problem.

The problem is that you're standing up for the Bible, not God, and you're not even doing it very well.

invisible trousers · Jun 8, 2007

That's one of the many problems of equating God with the bible.

It's such an easy trap to fall into, but it seems that many anti-gay christians are more than willing to jump right in.

SonOfSophroniscus · Jun 8, 2007

Mate, I totally agree. The Western World has the resources to end world poverty, and the majority of folk on these forums [let's not forget -- Christianity was initially a working-class religion] prefer to lay that irrelevant stuff aside, instead talking about the sinful-ness of homosexuality.

The Golden Rule, is all that need be mentioned here.

DMagoh said:
I'm sorry, I just cant believe some of the members of this "christian" forum. Not only are there numerous threads debating how great God thinks homosexual sex is, there are also threads debating whether sex before marriage is even a sin.

Jesus said to deny yourself and take up your cross...not if it feels good, do it!

The rich man turned around and walked off because he wanted eternal life, but he wasnt willing to follow Jesus. Some on this forum want it both ways. I can accept His gift of eternal life, and still not follow Him.

It's a sad day when a "christian" forum has debates about homosexuality and premarital sex.

SonOfSophroniscus · Jun 8, 2007

Whatever mate, 30 000 people in this world die every day from famine and easily treated illnesses.

I do believe that there's some passage in the Bible, which literally condemns this kind of inaction?

Tinker Grey said:
You also said

Rather arrogant to presume to know people's hearts.

The fact that you mention that you think it's been discussed to death doesn't obviate the fact that you apparently you want people to stop talking about. Your post doesn't negate my observation.

I would further observe that the fact that it is continually discussed and debated is some indication that it needs to be.

Jedi · Jun 8, 2007

DMagoh said:
So you believe there'a an "innocent" way to read this verse and NOT think homosexual sex is a sin?

In a word? Yes. Though I agree that this passage is condemning homosexual activity, it’s not as easy as you may think. Look at the surrounding context. The subject is idolatry. Historically and culturally speaking, idolatry was commonly associated with homosexual activity: a means of practicing idolatry. It’s conceivable, then, that someone might understand this passage as Paul condemning idolatry with homosexuality as the means. Of course, there are certain phrases here that Paul says (that homosexual activity is “unnatural&#8221 and the very fact that Paul mentions homosexual activity at all in his condemnation that strongly suggests Paul is condemning homosexuality itself alongside idolatry.

Suffice it to say that here there is room for honest inquiry as to what, exactly, Paul is condemning and why.

desmalia said:
Twisting Scripture or ignoring it all together for the sake of following one's own will is not exactly holy or honouring to God now is it?

Of course not, but who are you to say that’s what people are doing when they disagree with your understanding of scripture? Could it be (gasp!) that you have an inaccurate understanding of some aspect of scripture but are unwilling to consider otherwise because, well, you and God see eye-to-eye on everything?

It's just frustrating to see such a growing number of people denying God's word, or claiming His truth is subjective and "open to personal interpretation".

Here’s modernism using you as a mouthpiece, just like DMagoh. I’m sorry, but there’s always something the reader brings to the text: himself/herself. You can never remove that variable from the process of understanding scripture, try as you might. Past experiences, presuppositions, cultural influences, what you’ve been taught growing up, and even the language you speak all influence how you read a given text (the idea that there were 3 wise men at Christ’s birth is an excellent example of this). The Bible is open to interpretation and some interpretations are better than others with reason, history, hermeneutics, philosophy, and archaeology as the tools of the trade.

We're talking about people accepting, condoning, defending, and even encouraging ongoing sin within the body of Christ.

I’ve seen none of that going on. What I’ve seen is people discussing what is and what is not a sin. There’s a big difference. Even Paul did this in his epistles concerning the issue of eating meat sacrificed to idols (I’m sure people then, just like you, condemned him of “encouraging ongoing sin within the body of Christ” by doing so).

Dmagoh said:
YOU have not attempted to carry on a discussion with these people or you would know what I am talking about. They are not questioning and wondering - they are militant homosexuals that are trying to convince young men who ARE questioning and wondering that homosexual sex is great in God's eyes.

Perhaps. It’s also possible that they are just as convinced of their understanding that homosexual activity is not a sin as you are that it is sinful. It’s possible that you come across just as militant to them, unwilling to discuss and anxious to condemn. Again, do not be so quick to judge the hearts of men, especially those you only know anonymously online. You lack both the position and ability.

Perhaps I can use myself as somewhat of an example. I am convinced that masturbation is not inherently sinful. I’ve examined scripture in both English and Greek, I’ve talked with others about it ad nausea to see if they have any insight I might have missed, I’ve honestly considered arguments against it, but in the end found their reasons to fall short and crumble under the heat of scrutiny. Now when I enter a discussion about the moral standing of masturbation, I’ve already come to my conclusion from previous examination. This does not mean I’m not open to what others have to say in the current discussion – only that more than likely, I’ve already heard what they want to say. This does not make me “militant” or mean I even indulge in the subject in question (that old ad hominem accusation of accusing those who defend something of participating in the thing they defend). It’s just that (hold on to your britches here) I’ve come to a different conclusion based on an honest assessment of the facts.

DMagoh · Jun 8, 2007

Jedi said:
Its also possible that they are just as convinced of their understanding that homosexual activity is not a sin as you are that it is sinful.

Then I am doing what the Bible says to do...

19 My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
James 5:19-20

5 Better is open rebuke than hidden love. 6 Wounds from a friend can be trusted, but an enemy multiplies kisses.
Proverbs 27:5-6

Tinker Grey · Jun 8, 2007

SonOfSophroniscus said:
Whatever mate, 30 000 people in this world die every day from famine and easily treated illnesses.

I do believe that there's some passage in the Bible, which literally condemns this kind of inaction?

I am mystified how this comment relates to your quote of me.

Seriously, did you click on the wrong post?

synger · Jun 8, 2007

[FONT=&quot]REMINDER!!!

In discussion about any topic, you need to focus on the issues and doctrines that support your view. When you move the discussion from opinions themselves to the people who hold them, you enter shaky territory.

Please take this opportunity as a heartfelt reminder that you need to post in love, even when you disagree with someone.

Also note that if this thread devolves into a discussion primarily about homosexuality, it will be moved to the appropriate subforum.

Thank you.
[/FONT]

This is Pathetic

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sounds like somebody's got a case of the mondays

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