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This is for all the Evolutionists

supersport

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My full hypothesis pasted here for Tom and every other evolutionist who thinks I'm lacking scientific understanding.
------------------------------------
"At any rate, I am convinced that He [God] does not play dice". --Albert Einstein

I do not pretend to know how God works. However, I have been on a quest to find some real answers. I thrive on the truth. I need to know it. And given the available evidence, I can conclude that God does not play roulette with His Creation. This post is the culmination of what I have read and learned from those of whom I consider reputable sources. (I will give credit to quotes (in red), assertions and ideas by name)

Please keep in mind that even though these are my words, any words that I write stem from ideas from those who are much more knowledgeable than me. I in no way want anyone to think I am the originator of any of these ideas….I am merely consolidating and passing along the data I have learned from many others.

Anyone who wants to see neo-darwinism fizzle away (as if it hasn’t already), just read on. You’ll learn how traits are actually formed and inherited. Anyone who wants to claim the following miraculous abilities were evolved will be sorely disappointed, as this notion will be disproven towards the end of the post. The love and power and beauty of God’s awesome creation is about to be at least partially revealed…the following information will not only blow the average person away, but it will change the way you think about everything regarding life and genetics. Science, indeed has lead us astray…and I have found the source of this deception, which I will now present:
-------------------

Molecular biology has learned it is not the genetic code that accounts for the difference between the mouse and the fly or between a virus and a chicken. This, evidently has been known for quite a while:

"Biochemical changes do not seem to be a main driving force in the diversification of living organisms…It is not biochemical novelty that generated diversification of organisms…What distinguishes a butterfly from a lion, a hen from a fly, or a worm from a whale is much less a difference in chemical constitutes than in the organization and the distribution of these constituents." Francois Jacob, a founding father of biochemical genetics, 1977.

"The researchers who cracked the genetic code immediately realized that it was universal". Guiseppe Sermonti

In 1989, Hox genes (clusters of genes) were discovered in mice and worms. Soon after, it was realized that every creature on earth was constructed with the same clusters of genes. However these universal gene clusters manifested themselves in different animals, and thus, were responsible for different regions.

"For example, the same gene that’s responsible for the tail of the mouse, as well is responsible for the rear extremities of the grasshopper". Sermonti

So what is it that makes a mouse a mouse, a fly a fly? The fact is, no one knows….and from what I understand they will never know. One thing that is known, however, is that DNA is not the dictator of life that was once thought. It no longer assumes the role as life’s grand generator of genetic information.

"It is not the genes that elicit nascent form, but the nascent form that selects the genes and recruits them for its program" Sermonti


It’s clear to me that contemporary science has only one eye open to how nature really works. Instead of natural observations, science, instead has an obsession to dig below the surface and focus on genetics. It’s a bizarre fixation on the flask and test tube. But there’s a reason for this odd diversion…and it’s because nature – as it truly operates – shatters theTheory of Evolution. Thus, the truth about how nature operates is very difficult to find. Yet, through the Lord I have come to learn that the truth is really a very simple – yet incredibly mind-blowing concept.

Every individual animal on earth is at one with his environment. It’s the REAL way things “evolve.” – individually. And it starts at the moment of conception, when a mental and physical “agreement” of sorts forms -- and the animal melts and molds himself into his surroundings. This is when traits are passed from mother to daughter and/or formed by its habitat. It has nothing to do with genetics. Instead, specific traits are but responses to external stimuli that act on hormones. Idea from Lee Spetner

Very early on in the development of the embryo, the unformed organism begins a miraculous swirl of unexplainable self-organization. It also immediately starts receiving feedback. This feedback not only stems from its immediate surroundings, but from the external world as well -- through parental hormones. (Lee Spetner) It’s the beginning of a lifelong relationship. No doubt when we were developing in our mother’s womb, we learned to recognize our mother and father’s voices. Thus our minds began to be imprinted by their loving presence. In fact, the mind begins the process of receiving all kinds of stimuli…and this stimuli not only helps form mental and emotional traits, but physical traits as well. “"The developing embryo responds with little shocks and shivers as these discharges go about shaping the body".” (Sermonti) It’s the marvelous beginning of a relationship between a new life and the outside world.

"The mind and the world arise together" Fransico Varela

"Morphogenesis is a process that depends on stresses and relaxations" . Lev Belousso

"The soul is that excitable little something that awakens when the sperm and egg embrace In the early embryo, forces are activated that evoke the form of the body, bringing it into relationship with the outside world". Sermonti

And the smaller the creature, the more quickly adaptive it is. Likewise, animals that are more “liquid” (i.e. octopus, fish, etc) are very quickly adaptive. Thus a lion will be slower to adapt than adapt than a dog. A full-sized human is less adaptive than a baby. A bear is less adaptive than a fox. And this is proven by the fact that lots of smaller arctic animals can change fur color over the seasons (the hare, fox, weasel, squirrel, etc)…while deer and bears generally take longer – years possibly. But it can and does happen. I suggest every animal on earth has this ability, just in varying degrees and varying timeframes.

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/natbltn/700-799/nb706.htm

"Life is made up of countless, unexpressed designs for life". Goethe

But like I say, the smaller the creature, the more flexible it is. So is it any wonder that our lives started out in microscopic and in liquid form?...it’s when we were at our most adaptive state….it’s when we are not yet formed, yet have the ability to generate multiple forms based on internal signals and external stimuli. These signals start the process of transformation. This is partly how our destiny is decided, as proven here:

http://www.sicb.org/meetings/2003/sy...lasticity.php3

I submit that every animal develops different traits like the butterfly. And this is because all animals have consciousness and inherent intelligence in their genomes – and this intelligence works off external cues, which, for example, can help a lizard change colors or re-grow a lost limb or tail. The idea that the body can do this without the mind or internal intelligence is absurd. There could be no regeneration of the tail if there’s not some sort of consciousness, thought, or intelligence behind it.

The fact is, countless creatures can quickly change color – or emerge in a different color -- in response to an environmental change. There is no genetic change, it’s simply the result of a psychological phenomenon during development – or even later in life. I believe peppered moths are a perfect example. Of course you will never read this at a neo-darwin website because the reality of morphological plasticity is often withheld in such places. But like mammals, fish, lizards, frogs and other insects, moths have the ability to quickly change colors without a long genetic journey or death to a large segment of their population. Mind over matter…not matter over mind. That’s how our world was Created.

http://ourfcs.friendscentral.org/mot...yphenism1.html


But Darwin’s theory of evolution suggests that it’s matter over mind – and that animals change so they can become something different….I however, suggest that every animal changes so they can stay who they are…it’s the mind in action that keeps nature steady. It’s much like when my kids first learned to walk. There was lots of wobbling from side-to-side going on, but it was all that wobbling that allowed them to stay on their feet. It’s no different with animals….animals wobble back and forth physically so they can avoid falling over (extinction). And since scientists cannot find even ONE airtight intermediate fossil, then I suggest that this is all there is to so-called “evolution.” Ultimately, very little is left to chance…Nature does not operate by flipping coins.


"Things are as they are because they were as they were". Rupert Sheldrake

Darwinists may try to claim that these abilities were evolved. But the problem lies here: DNA can no more create evolutionary change in animals than a single, unfertilized egg can create a baby:

One of the fundamental principles of molecular biology (now enshrined as Central Dogma) assigned to DNA the role of absolute governor of the life and inheritance for the cell, and consequently for the organism. The Central Dogma proclaimed: DNA reproduces itself and produces proteins; proteins do not reproduce themselves and are unable to modify the DNA that encoded them. In other words, the information proceeds from DNA to DNA and from DNA to proteins, but it never makes the return journey from proteins to DNA……The egg makes the hen; the hen doesn’t really make the egg – she merely lays eggs that derive directly form the egg that made her. In the new molecular version, DNA was the egg and proteins the hen…..

"DNA is not the primary container of genetic information"
. Sermonti

So what does this mean? It means that since DNA is neither the starting point, nor the ending point. Which means it could not have played the role in evolution as Darwinists claim. DNA is merely a part of the never-ending circle of life. It’s merely a spoke in the genetic wheel; a curve in the spiral of life.

"God is a circle whose center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere" Empedocles

"According to these observations, genetic information is not like a ward where babies are born, but rather like a registry office where citizens can check their vital statistics and make them complete again if any have been lost". Sermonti

And as it turns out, traits such as color, pigmentation, eye color, hair color, etc are often modified by only one gene, one nucleotide of over 5 billion. This would require only a simple mutation (genetic switch with a locking trigger) in the developing embryo to change the organism:

A cue from the environment can trigger the switch, turning a gene ON or OFF. The ON/OFF state of the gene will maintain itself even through cell division. A new trigger from another environmental cue can reset the gene. Spetner

"In the model of the heritable switch, a change in the environment sends a signal to each member of the population. This signal activates a genetic command in each individual to call up a preprogrammed subroutine, If the new environment does not last long, the population will revert to its previous state. But if the new environment persists for a long enough time, then even after the environment changes, the population will remain in its new state. The new state is carried into future generations, and to this extent is heritable. The heritability is, however not absolute. A different cue can make the population change again. But the longer the environmental cue lasts, the more nearly heritable the effect appears.". Spetner

But like I said before, today’s science seems to be obsessed on genes, while turning a blind eye on real nature. And the reason for this is because a few lingering scientists are holding out faith that by studying mere genes they can somehow/someday learn to construct a new species of animal. But this is proving to be impossible. And the reason it’s impossible is because even though there are such thing as “blue eye genes” and “dark skin genes,” there are no such things as “mouse genes” or “cat genes.” And that’s because the greatest differences in life are not dictated by genes. Instead, genes are dictated by life’s differences. The sun is not orbiting the earth, the earth is orbiting the sun. Science is has everything backwards.

Thus, in order for a fish to evolve into a reptile, the internal program that dictates the genes for a fish, must somehow change into a program that dictates the genes for a reptile. This, of course, is absurd and defies all rationality. Thus, evolution, as we used to know it, is dead.

"The potential for adaptivity to the environment already exists in the genome. The environment just triggers it". Spetner

"And, How manifold are Your works, Eternal, You made them all with wisdom"" (Ps 104:24).

Books of reference:

Lee Spetner, Phd : Not By Chance

Giuseppe Sermonti, Phd: Why is a Fly not a Horse?
 

Late_Cretaceous

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A lion learning a new behaviour (adapting to a change in it's environment) is NOT biological evolution. The lion is using the innate ability to learn and alter behaviour - it is that inate behaviour that is written in it's genes. And that ability to learn and alter behaviour diminishes with age. Not exaclty a blow to conventional evolutionary thoery.
 
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Chalnoth

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supersport said:
My hypothesis is:

1) Individuals evolve with absolutely no help from Father Natural Selection.

2) This dessimates your theory.
Individuals don't evolve. Populations evolve. Quotes disseminate nothing. Theories stand or fall by evidence, not by who supports them.
 
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rmwilliamsll

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I'm having a hard time analyzing the OP and trying to figure out the one big idea that it is talking about.

these elements appear to be crucial

Every individual animal on earth is at one with his environment. It’s the REAL way things “evolve.” – individually. And it starts at the moment of conception, when a mental and physical “agreement” of sorts forms -- and the animal melts and molds himself into his surroundings. This is when traits are passed from mother to daughter and/or formed by its habitat. It has nothing to do with genetics. Instead, specific traits are but responses to external stimuli that act on hormones. Idea from Lee Spetner

which is a modern day lamarkianism.
there is no evidence for this feedback effect from the environment to modify the genome and transmit it to the next generation.

The proposed mechanism appears to be a regulatory one of turning on and off preexistent genes that are not mutations of the existing ones but sort of pre planned for the event, just laying there for such a moment.
 
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supersport

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JedPerkins said:
supersport, you have convinced me!

The evidence you present is absolutely overwhelming and I just can't deny it any longer: sniffing glue and eating paint chips as a child does cause permanent brain damage.

I'm sure I won't covince anyone because I have no powers to change one's heart. There's only One who can do that. S
 
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Late_Cretaceous

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"the following miraculous abilities were evolved "


Look I can take supersport's quotes out of context to make him look like he is a rabid evolutionist!

Of course we all know that out of context quotes are a very dishonest way of presenting an arguement. It's kind of like bearing false witness.
 
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Tomk80

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supersport said:
My full hypothesis pasted here for Tom and every other evolutionist who thinks I'm lacking scientific understanding.
------------------------------------
"At any rate, I am convinced that He [God] does not play dice". --Albert Einstein

I do not pretend to know how God works. However, I have been on a quest to find some real answers. I thrive on the truth. I need to know it. And given the available evidence, I can conclude that God does not play roulette with His Creation. This post is the culmination of what I have read and learned from those of whom I consider reputable sources. (I will give credit to quotes (in red), assertions and ideas by name)

Please keep in mind that even though these are my words, any words that I write stem from ideas from those who are much more knowledgeable than me. I in no way want anyone to think I am the originator of any of these ideas….I am merely consolidating and passing along the data I have learned from many others.
Okay, let's see if you accurately portray both their ideas and current thinking in evolutionary biology.

Anyone who wants to see neo-darwinism fizzle away (as if it hasn’t already),
Euh, honestly, what makes you think neo-darwinism 'fizzled away'?

just read on. You’ll learn how traits are actually formed and inherited. Anyone who wants to claim the following miraculous abilities were evolved will be sorely disappointed, as this notion will be disproven towards the end of the post. The love and power and beauty of God’s awesome creation is about to be at least partially revealed…the following information will not only blow the average person away, but it will change the way you think about everything regarding life and genetics. Science, indeed has lead us astray…and I have found the source of this deception, which I will now present:
-------------------


Molecular biology has learned it is not the genetic code that accounts for the difference between the mouse and the fly or between a virus and a chicken. Let's see:

This, evidently has been known for quite a while:

"Biochemical changes do not seem to be a main driving force in the diversification of living organisms…It is not biochemical novelty that generated diversification of organisms…What distinguishes a butterfly from a lion, a hen from a fly, or a worm from a whale is much less a difference in chemical constitutes than in the organization and the distribution of these constituents." Francois Jacob, a founding father of biochemical genetics, 1977.

"The researchers who cracked the genetic code immediately realized that it was universal". Guiseppe Sermonti
Nothing new here. Only caveat that should be included, is that a number of bacteria and archaebacteria do have a slightly different genetic code, but so far this is accurate. There is only one problem in the above, in that the quote of Francois Jacob has nothing to do with the genetic code, but with the biochemistry of the body.

In 1989, Hox genes (clusters of genes) were discovered in mice and worms. Soon after, it was realized that every creature on earth was constructed with the same clusters of genes. However these universal gene clusters manifested themselves in different animals, and thus, were responsible for different regions.

"For example, the same gene that’s responsible for the tail of the mouse, as well is responsible for the rear extremities of the grasshopper". Sermonti

So what is it that makes a mouse a mouse, a fly a fly? The fact is, no one knows…. and from what I understand they will never know.
This is in fact, incorrect. We do know, for a large part. Evodevo is, for example, based largely on this knowledge of what makes a mouse a mouse and a fly a fly. And this has been pointed out to you already. But let's first see whether something comes up next, before addressing this.

One thing that is known, however, is that DNA is not the dictator of life that was once thought. It no longer assumes the role as life’s grand generator of genetic information.

"It is not the genes that elicit nascent form, but the nascent form that selects the genes and recruits them for its program" Sermonti
And here, you are horribly confusing terms. You again equate genes with DNA. But genes are made up of DNA, not all DNA is genes. The above states nothing about DNA, only about genes.

It’s clear to me that contemporary science has only one eye open to how nature really works. Instead of natural observations, science, instead has an obsession to dig below the surface and focus on genetics. It’s a bizarre fixation on the flask and test tube. But there’s a reason for this odd diversion…and it’s because nature – as it truly operates – shatters theTheory of Evolution. Thus, the truth about how nature operates is very difficult to find. Yet, through the Lord I have come to learn that the truth is really a very simple – yet incredibly mind-blowing concept.
So far, you have shown that you do not understand the difference between DNA and genes. We also still have the part to address on what makes a mouse a mouse, if the HOX-genes are the same? But maybe that will yet come.

Every individual animal on earth is at one with his environment. It’s the REAL way things “evolve.” – individually. And it starts at the moment of conception, when a mental and physical “agreement” of sorts forms -- and the animal melts and molds himself into his surroundings. This is when traits are passed from mother to daughter and/or formed by its habitat. It has nothing to do with genetics. Instead, specific traits are but responses to external stimuli that act on hormones. Idea from Lee Spetner
If that is Lee Spetner's idea, he is, quite frankly, wrong. One of the astoninshing points in how we see this, is in how many organisms die before they reach adulthood. An example is the genetic resistence to malaria for people with hemoglobin S. If the adaptation was not related to genes, why is there such a connection between having the hemoglobin S gene and malaria resistence. We wouldn't expect that in your scenario. In fact, in your scenario, we would expect all children in malaria-rich regions to have this resistence, but somehow they don't. Why? Aren't they in touch with their surroundings? Why not?

Very early on in the development of the embryo, the unformed organism begins a miraculous swirl of unexplainable self-organization. It also immediately starts receiving feedback. This feedback not only stems from its immediate surroundings, but from the external world as well -- through parental hormones. (Lee Spetner) It’s the beginning of a lifelong relationship. No doubt when we were developing in our mother’s womb, we learned to recognize our mother and father’s voices. Thus our minds began to be imprinted by their loving presence. In fact, the mind begins the process of receiving all kinds of stimuli…and this stimuli not only helps form mental and emotional traits, but physical traits as well. “"The developing embryo responds with little shocks and shivers as these discharges go about shaping the body"(Sermonti) It’s the marvelous beginning of a relationship between a new life and the outside world.
And how is the reaction to this feedback and this process of formation determined? By the genetics. Here we come again to why is a mouse a mouse. It's all got to do with feedback loops, but these are all ultimately directed by our genes. Genes are the template of our proteins, and when these genes are expressed is determined by the regulating regions in our genetics.

snipped irrelevant quotes for brevity

And the smaller the creature, the more quickly adaptive it is. Likewise, animals that are more “liquid” (i.e. octopus, fish, etc) are very quickly adaptive. Thus a lion will be slower to adapt than adapt than a dog. A full-sized human is less adaptive than a baby. A bear is less adaptive than a fox. And this is proven by the fact that lots of smaller arctic animals can change fur color over the seasons (the hare, fox, weasel, squirrel, etc)…while deer and bears generally take longer – years possibly. But it can and does happen. I suggest every animal on earth has this ability, just in varying degrees and varying timeframes.

[URL="http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/natbltn/700-799/nb706.htm"]http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/natbltn/700-799/nb706.htm[/URL]
And yet, housemice cannot change the color of their coat, yet they are much smaller then arctic foxes and they would benefit from the change in winter? So why don't they? Well, because they can't. And why can't they do that? Because they do not have the genes. The adaptive possiblities of the animal have nothing to do with the animal. A koala is as large as an arctic fox, but it cannot adapt at all. Stop giving it eucalyptis, and it will die. Indeed, every animal has the ability to adapt in varying degrees and timeframes. But this is again determined by the genetics of the animal.

"Life is made up of countless, unexpressed designs for life"


But like I say, the smaller the creature, the more flexible it is. So is it any wonder that our lives started out in microscopic and in liquid form?...it’s when we were at our most adaptive state….it’s when we are not yet formed, yet have the ability to generate multiple forms based on internal signals and external stimuli. These signals start the process of transformation. This is partly how our destiny is decided, as proven here:

http://www.sicb.org/meetings/2003/sy...lasticity.php3

I submit that every animal develops different traits like the butterfly. And this is because all animals have consciousness and inherent intelligence in their genomes – and this intelligence works off external cues, which, for example, can help a lizard change colors or re-grow a lost limb or tail. The idea that the body can do this without the mind or internal intelligence is absurd. There could be no regeneration of the tail if there’s not some sort of consciousness, thought, or intelligence behind it.
Again, for the above goes, the thought that no intelligence is needed is only valid if you don't understand genetics.

The fact is, countless creatures can quickly change color – or emerge in a different color -- in response to an environmental change. There is no genetic change, it’s simply the result of a psychological phenomenon during development – or even later in life. I believe peppered moths are a perfect example. Of course you will never read this at a neo-darwin website because the reality of morphological plasticity is often withheld in such places. But like mammals, fish, lizards, frogs and other insects, moths have the ability to quickly change colors without a long genetic journey or death to a large segment of their population. Mind over matter…not matter over mind. That’s how our world was Created.

http://ourfcs.friendscentral.org/mot...yphenism1.html
And here we go again. You see, this is part of your dishonesty. The information is not withheld. In your discussions here, everyone of the people you spoke with completely admitted that animals have varying levels of adaptivity. They explained to you that this adaptivity is fully incorporated in the theory of evolution, but you don't listen to anything anyone tells you, except for what you want to hear.

But Darwin’s theory of evolution suggests that it’s matter over mind – and that animals change so they can become something different….I however, suggest that every animal changes so they can stay who they are…it’s the mind in action that keeps nature steady. It’s much like when my kids first learned to walk. There was lots of wobbling from side-to-side going on, but it was all that wobbling that allowed them to stay on their feet. It’s no different with animals….animals wobble back and forth physically so they can avoid falling over (extinction). And since scientists cannot find even ONE airtight intermediate fossil, then I suggest that this is all there is to so-called “evolution.” Ultimately, very little is left to chance…Nature does not operate by flipping coins.
Tiktaalik. Airtight intermediate fossil. Ichthystega, same. There are a lot of airtight intermediate fossils, as there are a lot of branches on the side. I'm actually really wondering how you could have missed them, if you have studied this so much.
 
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Tomk80

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"Things are as they are because they were as they were". Rupert Sheldrake

Darwinists may try to claim that these abilities were evolved. But the problem lies here: DNA can no more create evolutionary change in animals than a single, unfertilized egg can create a baby:

One of the fundamental principles of molecular biology (now enshrined as Central Dogma) assigned to DNA the role of absolute governor of the life and inheritance for the cell, and consequently for the organism. The Central Dogma proclaimed: DNA reproduces itself and produces proteins; proteins do not reproduce themselves and are unable to modify the DNA that encoded them. In other words, the information proceeds from DNA to DNA and from DNA to proteins, but it never makes the return journey from proteins to DNA……The egg makes the hen; the hen doesn’t really make the egg – she merely lays eggs that derive directly form the egg that made her. In the new molecular version, DNA was the egg and proteins the hen…..

"DNA is not the primary container of genetic information". Sermonti
You seem to have a lot of information from Sermonti. Therein may lie part of your problem. For example, in a review of one of his book :

So what does this mean? It means that since DNA is neither the starting point, nor the ending point. Which means it could not have played the role in evolution as Darwinists claim. DNA is merely a part of the never-ending circle of life. It’s merely a spoke in the genetic wheel; a curve in the spiral of life.
What does this mean? That Sermonti neglects most of the current research in favor of outdated research. It's not hard to come up with incorrect theories if you only use evidence of more then 40 years ago. And that's where it all goes downhill for Sermonti. For all your claims that evolutionists do not look at the evidence, it is actually one of your primary sources (at least in this post) that does not. Basically, you have been lied to.

"God is a circle whose center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere"
Empedocles

"According to these observations, genetic information is not like a ward where babies are born, but rather like a registry office where citizens can check their vital statistics and make them complete again if any have been lost". Sermonti
So with Sermonti buried, because of not looking at the evidence, we'll go on. We still have to cover why a mouse is actually a mouse.

And as it turns out, traits such as color, pigmentation, eye color, hair color, etc are often modified by only one gene, one nucleotide of over 5 billion. This would require only a simple mutation (genetic switch with a locking trigger) in the developing embryo to change the organism:

A cue from the environment can trigger the switch, turning a gene ON or OFF. The ON/OFF state of the gene will maintain itself even through cell division. A new trigger from another environmental cue can reset the gene. Spetner
I have to ask here, you do actually realize that Spetner is not talking about mutations above, do you?

"In the model of the heritable switch, a change in the environment sends a signal to each member of the population. This signal activates a genetic command in each individual to call up a preprogrammed subroutine, If the new environment does not last long, the population will revert to its previous state. But if the new environment persists for a long enough time, then even after the environment changes, the population will remain in its new state. The new state is carried into future generations, and to this extent is heritable. The heritability is, however not absolute. A different cue can make the population change again. But the longer the environmental cue lasts, the more nearly heritable the effect appears."
. Spetner

But like I said before, today’s science seems to be obsessed on genes, while turning a blind eye on real nature. And the reason for this is because a few lingering scientists are holding out faith that by studying mere genes they can somehow/someday learn to construct a new species of animal. But this is proving to be impossible. And the reason it’s impossible is because even though there are such thing as “blue eye genes” and “dark skin genes,” there are no such things as “mouse genes” or “cat genes.” And that’s because the greatest differences in life are not dictated by genes. Instead, genes are dictated by life’s differences. The sun is not orbiting the earth, the earth is orbiting the sun. Science is has everything backwards.
You are misrepresenting a lot here. No scientist is looking purely and only at the genes, and this has been explained to you in previous posts. The regulatory regions of the DNA (these are not all genes, but they are DNA) are important. Not in the Lamarckian way that Spetner suggests in the quote above, though. That is what actually makes a mouse, a mouse. But we'll go back to that later. We'll only note here that you misrepresent the current scientific understanding and what scientists are actually looking at, by pretending that scientists are only looking at genes and not at other things.

[qutoe]Thus, in order for a fish to evolve into a reptile, the internal program that dictates the genes for a fish, must somehow change into a program that dictates the genes for a reptile. This, of course, is absurd and defies all rationality. Thus, evolution, as we used to know it, is dead.[/quote]
No, it is not. It is actually not very absurd and well to understand, but we'll get to that a bit later.

"The potential for adaptivity to the environment already exists in the genome. The environment just triggers it"
. Spetner
There is a strange point in your proposition. If all the potential for adaptivity is already present in the genome, why does it change at all?

[/quote]"And, How manifold are Your works, Eternal, You made them all with wisdom"" (Ps 104:24).

Books of reference:

Lee Spetner, Phd : Not By Chance

Giuseppe Sermonti, Phd: Why is a Fly not a Horse?[/quote]
 
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supersport

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so Tom...if you agree that all living creatures have adaptivity...then would you explain to me the need for populational adaptation? Please tell me what kind of traits can only be formed through the populuation....ie..traits that cannot form through plasticity or by emerging with them (peppered moths, for example)
 
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supersport

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http://www.uen.org/utahlink/activities/view_activity.cgi?activity_id=4750

These physical features are called called physical adaptations. Physical adaptations do not develop during an animal's life but over many generations...The shape of a bird's beak, the number of fingers, color of the fur, the thickness or thinness of the fur, the shape of the nose or ears are all examples of physical adaptations which help different animals to survive.

do you believe this quote???

YOU CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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supersport

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see words always get evolutionists in trouble...this is why they hate science...because they then have to SAY things about it. and when that happens, it makes them accountable....which always turns out to bite them. The goalposts must always change in the evolutionist's world, otherwise he'd be exposed. It's better just to keep quiet.
 
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Tomk80

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So, let's first summarize the criticism:

1. The first part is about the genetic code itself. It is stated that it is universal, and that is true, although with the little caveat that there are a few minor exceptions in the bacterial and archaebacteria. However, you first quote you want to support that with talks about biochemistry. Biochemistry is not the genetic code.

2. You still don't know the difference between genes and DNA. That is an unforgivable crime when talking about this subject.

3. Lee Spetner proposes some kind of modification on Lamarckism. That he is incorrect is shown in many instances in nature, I've mentioned one regarding hemoglobin S.

4. You propose that the adaptiveness of animals is determined by their size. Koala's show that you are wrong (so do Panda's by the way).

5. You pretend like the adaptability of animals is not taken into account in the theory of evolution. You are incorrect. It's just that adaptability is also determined genetically.

6. You claim that evolutionist do not use the evidence. Yet you use a book by Sermonti, that does not use the current evidence but, in fact, ignores it. Bad form, in my honest opinion, but it does at least explain where your ideas are coming from. It would still be good to first study a basic book on genetics for you though.

7. You seem under the impression that the genetic switches Spetner is talking about are mutations. They are not.

8. More misrepresentations of scientific studies going on, by pretending that scientists 'only look at genes'. They do not.

9. You propose that change in form does not come from genetics, yet all animals have different DNA. How can that be? What purpose does this difference have.


And what makes a mouse a mouse, that still needs to be answered. What determines the differences between a butterfly, a mouse and a human. Especially of they have many of the same genes? The answer is twofold.

The first part of the answer is that a number of their genes is roughly the same (give or take a few mutations), but they also have a lot of different genes. That is the first obvious part. But it is not the whole answer.

The other part is that our genetics do not only exist of genes. When and where these genes are expressed is determined by regulatory regions on the DNA. These repond from triggers from outside and inside. This happens through the binding of substances (for example hormones) on the regulatory regions. So there is no intelligence needed indeed, it's all chemical reactions. Mice, butterflies and humans have, for a part, the same bodyplan. We have a front side and a backside and have left and right side. So it is not surprising to see that for this bodyplan we have roughly the same genes. Only the regulation of these genes differs, through the regulatory regions of the DNA.

But you are ignoring another important part, namely that organisms that are more similar, also have more genes that are similar. Thus, mice and humans have more genes in common with each other than with butterflies, because we not only have a front side and backside, but also a spine and a tetrapodic bodyplan. For these things we again have the same genes. But, again, when and where these genes are expressed differs, and this is again the result of the regulatory regions.

Which also directly results in a question. Because if you actually were correct, why is the mouse genome more similar to ours than to the butterfly genome. If change did not have a genetic component, this would not be necessary.

I would also, again, urge you sincerely to start picking up a basic book on genetics, something like 'essential cell biology' or 'concepts of genetics' and find a good teacher in your neighbourhood to help you through it. You are really lacking understanding in some of the basic concepts of genetics, which is the cause of a number of your misconceptions that are shown in your post.
 
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