This is a puzzling verse....

MidnightCry · Sep 21, 2011

"This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while. The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction." Rev. 17:9-11

These verses are referring to the beast in Rev. 13.

"And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.Rev13:1

"One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed." Rev. 13:3

"The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies...
Rev. 13:5

So what do the seven heads represent? These verses tell us:

*Each head has a blasphemous name.
*One of the heads had been wounded and healed.
*The beast was given a mouth to blaspheme God.

Rev. Chapter 17 tells us more:

"The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction." Rev.17:8

These verses tell us:

*The seven heads are seven mountains or hills.
*The seven heads are seven kings.
*Five have fallen.
*One is.
*One is yet to come.
*The beast that ascends out of the Abyss will be the eighth king and is a companion of the seven heads.

This is why I believe the seven heads are seven religious systems. People look up to these religious systems for knowledge and understanding of God.

Seven represents a complete number, a finished or full count. Hills or mountains in John's day were reserved as places of worship or for the dwelling of deity. Ancient temples or shrines were placed in prominent places high above the terrain, because these holy places were believed to be the dwelling place of God. Even Israel is often referred to as "Mt. Zion," or "My holy hill."

Five religious systems were exposed as false the day Jesus was born:

1. Heathenism
2. Atheism
3. Judaism
4. Eastern Mysticism
5. Islam (the Arabic faith)

One is:
The new head or religious system that had begun in John's day was Christianity. What was called Christianity for a thousand years is now called Catholicism.

One is yet to come: (Remember the angel is speaking to John)
By 1798, the Reformation produced a new head or religious system that would exist for "a little while." This system is known as Protestantism. Protestantism is only about four centuries old. The other six religious systems are twenty or more centuries old.

One will be a companion of the seven:
When Satan appears on earth claiming to be God, he will set himself above these seven kings and thus become the eighth and greatest king.

Remember when the little horn rose in Daniel 7 and plucked up three horns by the roots? The little horn became the eighth horn and it ruled over the remaining seven horns with complete authority. The parallel here is identical. The devil will appear and rule over the seven heads with greater authority than all of them.

YSIC,
midnightcry

JohnMarsten · Sep 22, 2011

midnightcry said:
"This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while. The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction." Rev. 17:9-11

These verses are referring to the beast in Rev. 13.

"And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.Rev13:1

"One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed." Rev. 13:3

"The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies...
Rev. 13:5

So what do the seven heads represent? These verses tell us:

*Each head has a blasphemous name.
*One of the heads had been wounded and healed.
*The beast was given a mouth to blaspheme God.

Rev. Chapter 17 tells us more:

"The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction." Rev.17:8

These verses tell us:

*The seven heads are seven mountains or hills.
*The seven heads are seven kings.
*Five have fallen.
*One is.
*One is yet to come.
*The beast that ascends out of the Abyss will be the eighth king and is a companion of the seven heads.

This is why I believe the seven heads are seven religious systems. People look up to these religious systems for knowledge and understanding of God.

Seven represents a complete number, a finished or full count. Hills or mountains in John's day were reserved as places of worship or for the dwelling of deity. Ancient temples or shrines were placed in prominent places high above the terrain, because these holy places were believed to be the dwelling place of God. Even Israel is often referred to as "Mt. Zion," or "My holy hill."

Five religious systems were exposed as false the day Jesus was born:

1. Heathenism
2. Atheism
3. Judaism
4. Eastern Mysticism
5. Islam (the Arabic faith)

One is:
The new head or religious system that had begun in John's day was Christianity. What was called Christianity for a thousand years is now called Catholicism.

One is yet to come: (Remember the angel is speaking to John)
By 1798, the Reformation produced a new head or religious system that would exist for "a little while." This system is known as Protestantism. Protestantism is only about four centuries old. The other six religious systems are twenty or more centuries old.

One will be a companion of the seven:
When Satan appears on earth claiming to be God, he will set himself above these seven kings and thus become the eighth and greatest king.

Remember when the little horn rose in Daniel 7 and plucked up three horns by the roots? The little horn became the eighth horn and it ruled over the remaining seven horns with complete authority. The parallel here is identical. The devil will appear and rule over the seven heads with greater authority than all of them.

YSIC,
midnightcry

I dont know if islam as we know already existed back in the day

MidnightCry · Sep 22, 2011

JohnMarsten said:
I dont know if islam as we know already existed back in the day

I was using the term Islam to refer to the ancient Arabic faith. Many Christians believe Mohammed is the founder of Islam, however Mohammed did not invent a new religion. Rather, he united, organized and expanded the beliefs of nomadic Arabians. Even though he is considered by the Moslems to be the last, and therefore the greatest of God's messengers, the Arabs trace the origin of their faith back to Ishmael and his 12 sons. Moslems regard Ishmael as the father of their faith and not Mohammed.

Thank you for your reply. I was beginning to think no one was reading my posts.

YSIC,
midnightcry

JohnMarsten · Sep 22, 2011

midnightcry said:
I was using the term Islam to refer to the ancient Arabic faith. Many Christians believe Mohammed is the founder of Islam, however Mohammed did not invent a new religion. Rather, he united, organized and expanded the beliefs of nomadic Arabians. Even though he is considered by the Moslems to be the last, and therefore the greatest of God's messengers, the Arabs trace the origin of their faith back to Ishmael and his 12 sons. Moslems regard Ishmael as the father of their faith and not Mohammed.

Thank you for your reply. I was beginning to think no one was reading my posts.

YSIC,
midnightcry

I guess people were reading it , but its a tough question

BUT

believe it or not, I was thinking about that topic yesterday (without having seen your post), trying to figure out which religions might be in it... just plain crazy

OntheDL · Sep 22, 2011

midnightcry said:
This is why I believe the seven heads are seven religious systems. People look up to these religious systems for knowledge and understanding of God.

Seven represents a complete number, a finished or full count. Hills or mountains in John's day were reserved as places of worship or for the dwelling of deity. Ancient temples or shrines were placed in prominent places high above the terrain, because these holy places were believed to be the dwelling place of God. Even Israel is often referred to as "Mt. Zion," or "My holy hill."

Five religious systems were exposed as false the day Jesus was born:

1. Heathenism
2. Atheism
3. Judaism
4. Eastern Mysticism
5. Islam (the Arabic faith)

YSIC,
midnightcry

Here is my thought on this...

Rev 17
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

The woman is the false church. The bible tells us this the wisdom that the church sits on 7 hills.

Rome is built on 7 hills.
Seven hills of Rome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So the bible gives the wisdom to identify the church as the Roman church.

Vs10 tells the 7 horns are 7 kings. They are kingdoms, political powers give rise to the Roman church.

We see the same theme repeated in Revelation's companion book of Daniel. The Little Horn rises out of the political powers.

The 7 heads and 10 horns first appeared on the red dragon in Rev 12. In the context of Rev 12, we know this is the Satanic power persecuting the woman (the true church) and the remnant of her seed.

So the 7 heads are political powers that were manifestation of the Satan throughout the ages that persecuted the remnant and gave rise to the false church.

Lets consult the inspiration on the subject.

"Under the symbols of a great red dragon, a leopardlike beast, and a beast with lamblike horns, the earthly governments which would especially engage in trampling upon God's law and persecuting His people, were presented to John. The war is carried on till the close of time. The people of God, symbolized by a holy woman and her children, were represented as greatly in the minority. In the last days only a remnant still existed. Of these John speaks as they "which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ" (ST Nov. 1, 1899). {7BC 972.5}

Who are the 7 heads that persecuted the remnant down through the ages and gave rise to the false church of Rome?

5 is fallen:
Egypt
Apostate Israel
Babylon
Medo-Persia
Greek

1 is (relative to John's time)
Pagan Rome

the other 1 is not yet come
Papal Rome (Holy Roman empire)

The 7 heads are not religions (they don't fit in the prophetic background). They are the manifestation of Satan throughout different ages in the major political entities, kingdoms, powers that have carried the work of destroying the seed of the woman.

The satanic power manifested in reeds of Egypt, in the cedars of Israel, in the palms of Babylon, in the highways and byways of Persia, in the sophistry of the Greek philosophy, in wild beasts of the Roman Coliseums and in the fagots of the Papist.

Hope this help...

MidnightCry · Sep 22, 2011

Thank you for your reply, OntheDL.

I have to ask a favor. Please only use the Bible to back up your position. No other sources please. I want to keep this strictly from the Bible and the Bible only.

The seven hills represent religious systems. There are many verses in the Bible that tell us hills or mountains were used as places of worship in John's day. Even Jerusalem is referred to as "your holy hill" or "my holy hill."

These seven religious bodies can also be seven kings, that is, they have dominion and subjects. People obey and follow their respective religious systems as a means of serving God. Look at the religious zeal and loyalty of Moslems. Many Moslems have a commitment to Allah that most Protestants cannot understand. (myself included).

You also state that the one that is left to come is Papal Rome. If Papal Rome has already come, and is still here, how can it be the "one left to come?"

What about the head that has received a wound and when it returns the wound has been healed? You didn't address this.

Also if the seven heads are political in nature, than what are the ten heads?

I contend that the ten horns are political in nature. These are ten kings that will be installed by the devil to oversee the political affairs of the world.

YSIC,
midnightcry

stinsonmarri · Sep 24, 2011

OntheDL:

You stated - Rome is built on 7 hills. The comment you presented was very good however I hope you would please allow me to make some corrections. Many have the tendency to focus too much on Rome who does play a part in false worship against Elohim. But I main focus should be on the message which involves us to completely understand ancient world history.

So the bible gives the wisdom to identify the church as the Roman church.

Please understand that Pagan Rome never had a church it is when Rome moved and allow religion to become or take over its political power. I wish that all could understand that ancient kingdoms and empires all had a state religion but they were not persecuting powers. Pagans all believe that their deity helped them win their wars over their rivalry but the people had many different forms of worship and deities. Nebuchadnezzar was the first to actually force the worship of one deity on his people. When religion takes over politic it becomes a persecuting power. The Jews allow their belief to become a persecuting power when Paul started to kill his own people who call themselves Nazarenes. Then pagan Rome only persecuted just those who follow Yashua and no other sect. But it was Papal Rome who change when the Papacy rule and religion became so powerful that you had to worship only the way that this religion require you to worship or be killed.

As the Roman Republic, and later the Roman Empire, expanded, it came to include people from a variety of cultures, and religions. The worship of an ever increasing number of deities was tolerated and accepted. The government, and the Romans in general, tended to be tolerant towards most religions and cults. however some religions were persecuted for political reasons rather than dogmatic zeal, and other rites banned which involved human sacrifice.

In the Christian era the Church came to accept it was the Emperor's duty to use secular power to enforce religious unity. Anyone within the church who did not subscribe to Catholic Christianity was seen as a threat to the dominance and purity of "the one true faith" and they saw it as their right to defend this by all means at their disposal. From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Who are the 7 heads that persecuted the remnant down through the ages and gave rise to the false church of Rome?

5 is fallen:
Egypt
Apostate Israel
Babylon
Medo-Persia
Greek

First SDA must move from the concept that only through the SDA Church come the remnant. Yahweh and the Bible make it clear that other sheep of other fold will come together and make up the remnant. The only one of the five fallen that is not correct is Apostate Israel simply because she never became an empire! Assyria is the correct empire that should be listed here and then your list would be correct. Satan was in control of all seven world empires and ten symbolizes the entire world which is fitting since he has "deceived the whole world."

Happy Sabbath,

stinsonmarri

EastCoastRemnant · Sep 24, 2011

Isn't it amazing that what was once wholly accepted as truth 150 years ago by the pioneers and Adventists in general is now just a jumble of 'this is what I think this prophesy means'... none of which agrees with the other. The forefathers understanding of these prophesies have a history and concensus, the modern day theories are fleeting and disjointed.

I think I'll stick with the pioneers....

Kira Light · Sep 24, 2011

EastCoastRemnant said:
Isn't it amazing that what was once wholly accepted as truth 150 years ago by the pioneers and Adventists in general is now just a jumble of 'this is what I think this prophesy means'... none of which agrees with the other. The forefathers understanding of these prophesies have a history and concensus, the modern day theories are fleeting and disjointed.

I think I'll stick with the pioneers....

Didn't the pioneers also believe Jesus would return in their lifetime, the door to salvation was shut, the concept of the trinity was a lie, etc etc?

I believe you have gotten away from the "truth" of the pioneers as well.

MidnightCry · Sep 24, 2011

EastCoastRemnant said:
Isn't it amazing that what was once wholly accepted as truth 150 years ago by the pioneers and Adventists in general is now just a jumble of 'this is what I think this prophesy means'... none of which agrees with the other. The forefathers understanding of these prophesies have a history and concensus, the modern day theories are fleeting and disjointed.

I think I'll stick with the pioneers....

The historical interpretation does not have a consensus and has been proven to be in error. Anyone can make Revelation say what they want by making up symbols and then twisting Bible verses to support those symbols.

The early pioneers and the Millerites thought the world was going to end in their time. So they forced parts of Revelation into the past to fit their presumptions. And now because the SDA church is founded on the writings of Ellen White, they are trapped into supporting those beliefs because they do not want to admit their prophet and early founders were wrong.

EastCoastRemnant · Sep 24, 2011

midnightcry said:
The historical interpretation does not have a consensus and has been proven to be in error. Anyone can make Revelation say what they want by making up symbols and then twisting Bible verses to support those symbols.

I can see you are getting a concensus from the brethren on here, so I'll leave you to your own ideas...

If you could though, I'd be interested in when and where the historical interpretation was proven to be in error. All the ministers I listen to still uphold that doctrine... Batchelor, Boonstra, Assterick, Sankey, Myers and many others. Maybe I should let them know they are behind the times and what they are currently proclaiming is 'old fashioned' and proven to be in error.

stinsonmarri · Sep 25, 2011

EastCoastRemnant said:
I can see you are getting a concensus from the brethren on here, so I'll leave you to your own ideas...

If you could though, I'd be interested in when and where the historical interpretation was proven to be in error. All the ministers I listen to still uphold that doctrine... Batchelor, Boonstra, Assterick, Sankey, Myers and many others. Maybe I should let them know they are behind the times and what they are currently proclaiming is 'old fashioned' and proven to be in error.

ECR:

You stated:

If you could though, I'd be interested in when and where the historical interpretation was proven to be in error.

I have presented this to you over and over but you refuse to accept EGW whom you claim that you believe in her!

How shall we search the Scriptures in order to understand what they teach? We should come to the investigation of Elohims word with a contrite heart, a teachable and prayerful spirit.We are not to think, as did the Jews, that our own ideas and opinions are infallible; nor with the papists, that certain individuals are the sole guardians of truth and knowledge, that men have no right to search the Scriptures for themselves, but must accept the explanations given by the fathers of the church. We should not study the Bible for the purpose of sustaining our preconceived opinions, but with the single object of learning what Elohim has said.

Some have feared that if in even a single point they acknowledge themselves in error, other minds would be led to doubt the whole theory of truth. Therefore they have felt that investigation should not be permitted, that it would tend to dissension and disunion. But if such is to be the result of investigation, the sooner it comes the better. If there are those whose faith in Elohims word will not stand the test of an investigation of the Scriptures, the sooner they are revealed the better; for then the way will be opened to show them their error. We cannot hold that a position once taken, an idea once advocated, is not, under any circumstances, to be relinquished. There is but One who is infallible--He who is the way, the truth, and the life.

Those who allow prejudice to bar the mind against the reception of truth cannot receive the divine enlightenment. Yet, when a view of Scripture is presented, many do not ask, Is it true--in harmony with Elohims word? but, By whom is it advocated? and unless it comes through the very channel that pleases them, they do not accept it. So thoroughly satisfied are they with their own ideas that they will not examine the Scripture evidence with a desire to learn, but refuse to be interested, merely because of their prejudices.

Yahweh often works where we least expect Him; He surprises us by revealing His power through instruments of His own choice, while He passes by the men to whom we have looked as those through whom light should come. Elohim desires us to receive the truth upon its own merits--because it is truth.

The Bible must not be interpreted to suit the ideas of men, however long they may have held these ideas to be true. We are not to accept the opinion of commentators as the voice of Elohim; they were erring mortals like ourselves. Elohim has given reasoning powers to us as well as to them. We should make the Bible its own expositor. TM 105, 106

There is need of a much closer study of the word of Elohim; especially should Daniel and the Revelation have attention as never before in the history of our work. We may have less to say in some lines, in regard to the Roman power and the papacy; but we should call attention to what the prophets and apostles have written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit of Elohim. The Holy Spirit has so shaped matters, both in the giving of the prophecy and in the events portrayed, as to teach that the human agent is to be kept out of sight, hid in Yashua, and that the Yahweh Elohim of heaven and His law are to be exalted. Read the book of Daniel. Call up, point by point, the history of the kingdoms there represented. Behold statesmen, councils, powerful armies, and see how Elohim wrought to abase the pride of men, and lay human glory in the dust. . . .

The light that Daniel received from Elohim was given especially for these last days. The visions he saw by the banks of the Ulai and the Hiddekel, the great rivers of Shinar, are now in process of fulfillment, and all the events foretold will soon come to pass.

Consider the circumstances of the Jewish nation when the prophecies of Daniel were given.

Let us give more time to the study of the Bible. We do not understand the word as we should. The book of Revelation opens with an injunction to us to understand the instruction that it contains. "Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy," Elohim declares, "and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand." When we as a people understand what this book means to us, there will be seen among us a great revival.We do not understand fully the lessons that it teaches, notwithstanding the injunction given us to search and study it. TM 112, 113

All the ministers I listen to still uphold that doctrine... Batchelor, Boonstra, Assterick, Sankey, Myers and many others. Maybe I should let them know they are behind the times and what they are currently proclaiming is 'old fashioned' and proven to be in error.

Maybe you should let them know that they are not behind the time but in error. I have wrote to some of them myself and just like you they will not write back with proof from Scriptures but only with words and some nothing at all. It sad that we put men on pedestal above the Bible. Saul thought the same thing about his teacher and held his coat while he killed Stephen! Saul begin to persecute those who too stood up against the "Batchelor, Boonstra, Assterick, Sankey, Myers and many others," that stuck on doctrines and traditions of men and not on Yahweh's covenant until he knocked him off his horse and showed that he was kicking against the prick as you are. Your heart I feel is truly in the right place but you are stuck on well known ministers with PhD, or DD or whatever they had. But Moses was taken off the throne of Egypt and became a Sheppard in order do to Elohim's work. Peter, and his buddies were fishermen, Mary a harlot, Saul who became Paul no longer a extinguish lawyer but a tentmaker. I could tell you of Canaan, Jacob, Joseph, Samuel, David and more and what their status originally was in society. Finally EGW a third grade girl with little education was used to help others to understand and lead the way that when others like her who are chosen that will finish the work. Many will not accept truth this has been the case in all ages. As the Bible clearly states that many truly are called but only a few are chosen. Yahweh alway uses the least while many cleave to the great ministers instead to truth even when they see it. If they preached it you would believe it because they are the rabbis of today and many like me and others will be persecuted for what we know is truth and not someone interpretation.

I leave you with the message that Paul said against his once upheld traditional Jewish beliefs;

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of the Messiah unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of the Messiah. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or Elohim? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of the Messiah. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Yashua the Messiah. For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of Elohim, and wasted it: And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers. (Like You) But when it pleased Elohim, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus. Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. But other of the apostles saw I none, save James Yashua's brother. Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before Elohim, I lie not (neither do I as well). Gal 1:6-20

May you read and understand the word of Elohim for yourself blessings,

stinsonmarri

EastCoastRemnant · Sep 25, 2011

Thank you for the warning sister.... I do however question preconceived doctrines when they are brought to my attention by the Holy Spirit. I am currently questioning the validity of the belief that Moses, Elijah and Enoch are in Heaven, having being translated. I also do not blindly adhere to or am convinced of the need to be a vegetarian, or the jewellery issue etc.
Again, I ask, if the pillars and platform of Adventism has been shown to be in error, I would appreciate Biblical reference for such claims. Show me the alternative for the IJ at the end of the 2300 days, show me the inderstanding of the mark of the beast if it's not the Sunday law.

The doctrines that I have looked at and done my own searching on has concluded without a change in my belief. Am I one of those, as sister White says, that goes looking for clarification of my preconceived ideas? I think we are all guilty of that to an extent but I do know that the Holy Spirit will reveal what needs to be made known inspite of ourselves. To me there is a difference between believing in a doctrine until shown different by the Spirit and staying true to a doctrine after being shown different. I have not been shown different concerning the pillars.

MidnightCry · Sep 26, 2011

EastCoastRemnant said:
I can see you are getting a concensus from the brethren on here, so I'll leave you to your own ideas...

If you could though, I'd be interested in when and where the historical interpretation was proven to be in error. All the ministers I listen to still uphold that doctrine... Batchelor, Boonstra, Assterick, Sankey, Myers and many others. Maybe I should let them know they are behind the times and what they are currently proclaiming is 'old fashioned' and proven to be in error.

Greeting EastCoastRemnant,

I am here as a seeker of truth. I am very interested in the end times and what is going to happen next because it seems like this world is so out of control. I wasn't raised in the SDA church, but I believe they are a church that has the most truth and follow the Bible very closely so I am going to stick with them. But even some of their teachings about the end times do not make sense to me.

I just cannot accept that the trumpets are in the past. The historical interpretation is so confusing. And how can the beast in Rev. 13 be the papacy, or the US and the papacy together? It just doesn't make sense to me.

The only problem I have with Ellen White is that the church seems to refer to her so much. The preachers on 3ABN are always quoting her. It's like she has the final say on every issue. I would rather they rely more on just the Bible and not so much on EW. I like EW. I have read alot of her books and refer to them frequently. I believe she did receive visions from God and that she brought to light certain truths that had been forgotten. (such as the Sabbath, the cleansing of the temple, health concerns).

But the Bible is still speaking to us. I think God has messages for the final generation. The end time people that will be living when the tribulation begins. God didn't emphasize certain bible truths to EW because her generation didn't need that information because God knew they wouldn't be alive at the end of time. I believe He wants to shine new light on His book.

With that said, I'll ask you a question:

For the past 145 years, SDAs in the US have anticipated the enactment of a national Sunday law, and to a great extent, they believe this event will initiate a worldwide "time of trouble." They also believe "the time of trouble" will end with the outpouring of the seven last plagues and the appearing of Jesus.

What will cause the US Congress to enact a national Sunday law? What will cause Protestants and Catholics to "join hands" and eliminate religious freedom in the US? Will the US and the RCC someday impose a universal Sunday law on all 194 nations of the world containing seven billion people?? How will this happen? What will cause the entire world to worship the beast?

YSIC,
midnightcry

EastCoastRemnant · Sep 26, 2011

midnightcry said:
Greeting EastCoastRemnant,

I am here as a seeker of truth. I am very interested in the end times and what is going to happen next because it seems like this world is so out of control. I wasn't raised in the SDA church, but I believe they are a church that has the most truth and follow the Bible very closely so I am going to stick with them. But even some of their teachings about the end times do not make sense to me.

I just cannot accept that the trumpets are in the past. The historical interpretation is so confusing. And how can the beast in Rev. 13 be the papacy, or the US and the papacy together? It just doesn't make sense to me.

The only problem I have with Ellen White is that the church seems to refer to her so much. The preachers on 3ABN are always quoting her. It's like she has the final say on every issue. I would rather they rely more on just the Bible and not so much on EW. I like EW. I have read alot of her books and refer to them frequently. I believe she did receive visions from God and that she brought to light certain truths that had been forgotten. (such as the Sabbath, the cleansing of the temple, health concerns).

But the Bible is still speaking to us. I think God has messages for the final generation. The end time people that will be living when the tribulation begins. God didn't emphasize certain bible truths to EW because her generation didn't need that information because God knew they wouldn't be alive at the end of time. I believe He wants to shine new light on His book.

With that said, I'll ask you a question:

For the past 145 years, SDAs in the US have anticipated the enactment of a national Sunday law, and to a great extent, they believe this event will initiate a worldwide "time of trouble." They also believe "the time of trouble" will end with the outpouring of the seven last plagues and the appearing of Jesus.

What will cause the US Congress to enact a national Sunday law? What will cause Protestants and Catholics to "join hands" and eliminate religious freedom in the US? Will the US and the RCC someday impose a universal Sunday law on all 194 nations of the world containing seven billion people?? How will this happen? What will cause the entire world to worship the beast?

YSIC,
midnightcry

Thank you for you post sister and for explaining your position. I was getting the impression that you weren't looking for Adventist understanding but anything but... I apologize for assuming that.

I am alot like you in my feelings towards the almost veneration of EW within certain branches of the church while there are others that do not ascribe to anything she had written. There is a balance that needs to be struck...

As far as the end times prophesies and what EW had to say about that time, I don't have anymore answers as to how these things will transpire than you do. I follow world events from the alternative news sites to try and gleen a sense of the path that it will transpire and I know God will bless us with wisdom if we seek His council on these matters.

I do know though, that there was a bill before congress in the late 1880's that was to enact a Sunday law and it was because of testimony given by EG Waggoneer and others that disuaded them from pursuing it to pass it into law. EW has said that the Lord would have come by now if His people had of been ready.

Those things I do not fully understand about how things will unfold, I trust in faith that what has been revealed will come to pass.... how? I do not know exactly but I do know that whatever God purposes to do, it will be done, irregardless of our limited reasoning as to how.

This is a puzzling verse....

Regular Member

Newbie

Regular Member

Newbie

OntheDL

Guest

Regular Member

Regular Member

I Must Decrease That He May Increase

Shinigami love apples

Regular Member

I Must Decrease That He May Increase

Regular Member

I Must Decrease That He May Increase

Regular Member

I Must Decrease That He May Increase

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency