"This Generation" opinions Plz

[Uzziah]

I have written a paper on the meaning of "this generation" in Matt 24:34 in refution of the meaning that Preterist place on it. That the generation was the generation that saw 70 AD and only that generation. It's not a complete nor very well explained paper and you may not agree with it's conclusions, but I would like to know if you at least understand it before I post it on a primarily Preterist board. Thnx

This Generation Matt 24:34

There are two main views, one, which views “Generation” as a moral class and another that suggests the Generation during the future tribulation is meant. I will be commenting on the moral class.

The Moral Class

This is my preferred view and I will attempt to prove, from both the OT and the NT, that the word “generation” had a wider meaning, especially WRT the prophetic scriptures, than the modern understanding of the word.

To start with, what are the characteristics of “this generation”? How is “this generation” defined?

Deuteronomy 32 gives a definition of “this generation”.

Deu 32:5 They have corrupted themselves, their spot is not the spot of his children: they are a perverse and crooked generation.

and…

Deu 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

Similar word are used by Christ to define that generation.

Mat 16:4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

and

Mat 17:17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.

So what characterizes them is, first, that they are Jews that make up the majority of the nation of Israel, as apposed to the faithful, righteous, Jewish remnant. They are wicked, adulterous, perverse, in whom is no faith, they are an unbelieving generation.

I will be returning to Deut 32 later because it is prophetic and as such important to my main point.

But now to other places in the OT that define “generation” as a moral class.

Psa 14:5 There were they in great fear: for God is in the generation of the righteous.

This text is obviously speaking of generation in a moral sense. If it is speaking of a generation in the modern day sense of about 70 years, then which generation is “the generation of the righteous”? “The generation of the righteous” is a moral class that has characteristics that might extend indefinitely. In today’s terms there are the saved and unsaved, both of them respective moral classes. The generation of the righteous, the saved. The generation of the unrighteous, the unsaved. There are saved and unsaved at any period of time, either in history, in the present or in the future.

Here is a comment, by Albert Barnes, on the above text…

”For God is in the generation of the righteous – The word “generation” here, as applied to the righteous, seems to refer to them as a “race,” or as a “class” of people. Compare Psa_24:6; Psa_73:15; Psa_112:2. It commonly in the Scriptures refers to a certain age or duration, as it is used by us, reckoning an age or generation as about thirty or forty years (compare Job_42:16); but in the use of the term before us the idea of an “age” is dropped, and the righteous are spoken of merely as a “class” or “race” of persons. The idea here is, that there were such manifest proofs that God was among the righteous, and that he was their friend, that the wicked could not resist the force of that evidence, however much they might desire it, and however much they might wish to arrive at the conclusion that there was no God. The evidence that he was among the righteous would, of course, alarm them, because the very fact that he was the friend of the righteous demonstrated that he must be the enemy of the wicked, and, of course, that they were exposed to his wrath.”

Again in Psalm 24…

Psa 24:3 Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place?
Psa 24:4 He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.
Psa 24:5 He shall receive the blessing from the LORD, and righteousness from the God of his salvation.
Psa 24:6 This is the generation of them that seek him, that seek thy face, O Jacob. Selah

Again, if generation is meant in its current understanding, when we look back on history, which was “the generation of them that seek him”? The generation of them that seek him” are a class of people. There is currently a class of people, a generation, who is marked by the characteristic of seeking God, as there always will be, that generation will always exist.

Albert Barnes again…
[quotePsa 24:6 -
This is the generation of them that seek him – This describes the race of those who seek Him; or, this is their character. The word “generation” here is used evidently in the sense of “race, people, or persons.” This is the character or description of the “persons” who seek His favor; or, this is the character of His true friends. The phrase “to seek God” is often used as descriptive of true piety: Psa_9:10; Psa_14:2; Psa_63:1; Pro_8:17; Mat_6:33; Mat_7:7.[/quote]

Another example…

Psa 112:2 His seed shall be mighty upon earth: the generation of the upright shall be blessed.

And…

Psa 78:8 And might not be as their fathers, a stubborn and rebellious generation; a generation that set not their heart aright, and whose spirit was not stedfast with God.

Prov 30:11-14 is a good example of “generation” being used in a moral sense.

Pro 30:11 There is a generation that curseth their father, and doth not bless their mother.

Compare the above with the words of Christ…

Mat 15:4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
Mat 15:5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
Mat 15:6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.


Pro 30:12 There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness.

Compare…

Luk 11:39 And the Lord said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness.

Also…

Pro 30:13 There is a generation, O how lofty are their eyes! and their eyelids are lifted up.
Pro 30:14 There is a generation, whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives, to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men.

Compare…

[/b]Mat 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. [/b]

So when Solomon speaks of a generation, “there is a generation”, he is speaking of a moral class. A class whose characteristics can be found in any contemporary time.

Now back to Deut 32, Plz read carefully this is important.…

Deu 32:5 They have corrupted themselves, their spot is not the spot of his children: they are a perverse and crooked generation.

Deu 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.
Deu 32:21 They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

Again, notice the Characteristics of the generation mentioned in the texts, first, they were a generation within ethic Israel, the nation of Israel is who is being referred to in the chapter. They were a perverse and crooked generation “a froward generation in whom is no faith” (Matt 17:17). God said “I will hide my face from them. I will see what their end shall be”. “Their end” is not a reference to the end of those particular people then living, but the end of that moral class, that generation in the moral sense, as we will see from what is said next.

Deu 32:21 They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

Of that generation God said “they have moved me to anger with their vanities” and “I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.”

How did/is God moving them, that generation of crooked, perverse, unbelieving Jews, to jealousy?

Which nation is that “foolish nation” by whom God is going to “provoke them to jealousy and anger”?

The Apostle Paul answers these questions in Romans…

Rom 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
Rom 10:20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
Rom 10:21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
Rom 11:12 But if their fall be the world's wealth, and their loss the wealth of the nations, how much rather their fulness?
Rom 11:13 For I speak to you, the nations, inasmuch as *I* am apostle of nations, I glorify my ministry;
Rom 11:14 if by any means I shall provoke to jealousy them which are my flesh, and shall save some from among them

In the above passages Paul explains that God is using believing gentiles (the “foolish nation”) to provoke unbelieving Israel to Jealousy, in fulfillment of Deu 32:20-21.
So how can that generation simply mean a generation as we understand it? If God is using the believing gentiles of today (the “foolish nation”) to provoke the generation of Jews referred to in Deu 32 to Jealousy and anger, how is it possible if we understand “generation” in our contemporary sense? Obviously the biblical meaning of the word generation has a wider meaning, ESP in the prophetic scriptures.

Christ spoke of this in Matt 21:43…

Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

The Hebrew word for Generation is “Dore”, The Greek word for generation in Matt 24:34
Is “Genea”.

Compare Isaiah 53:8 with acts 8:33 where Isa 53 :8 is quoted in the NT…

Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? (Dore)for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

Act 8:33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation?(Genea) for his life is taken from the earth.

So the Spirit of God translates the Hebrew word “Dore” with it’s general sense of not only meaning a period of time, but also have an ongoing moral meaning, into the Greek word “Genea”.

It is also a valid point to note that, apart from the Olivet Discourse, whenever the Lord Jesus uses the word generation (Genea) in the Gospels he is upbraiding the people, primarily the Jews, for their moral character.

William Kelly explains…

“ Matthew 11: 16, "Whereunto shall I liken this generation?" means such as then lived, characterized by the moral capriciousness which set them in opposition to God's testimony, whatever it might be, in righteousness or in grace. But evidently, though people then alive are primarily in view, the moral identity of the same features might extend indefinitely, and so from age to age it would still be "this generation."
Cont...

 

[Uzziah]

Lets have a look at Mark 8:38…

Mar 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels

Notice how Christ characterizes the generation; he describes it as an “adulterous and sinful generation” he is focused on the moral character of the generation.

Matthew Henry on Mark 8:38…

adulterous and sinful generation; such the generation of mankind is gone a whoring from God, in the impure embraces of the world and the flesh, lying in wickedness; some ages, some places, are more especially adulterous and sinful, as that was in which Christ lived; , in such a generation the cause of Christ is opposed and run down, and those that own it, are exposed to reproach and contempt, and every where ridiculed and spoken against.

Barnes…
This adulterous and sinful generation – This age given to wickedness, particularly to adultery.

Mat 11:16 But to whom shall I liken this generation? It is like children sitting in the markets, which, calling to their companions,
Mat 11:17 say, We have piped to you, and ye have not danced: we have mourned to you, and ye have not wailed.
Mat 11:18 For John has come neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He has a demon.
Mat 11:19 The Son of man has come eating and drinking, and they say, Behold, a man that is eating and wine-drinking, a friend of tax-gatherers, and of sinners: --and wisdom has been justified by her children.
Mat 11:20 Then began he to reproach the cities in which most of his works of power had taken place, because they had not repented.

Again, in the above passage, Christ is reproving the Jews for their moral character, yes the Jews then present were primarily in view, but they are displaying the same characteristics as their forefathers in Duet 32, they are the same moral class.

Mat 12:39 But he, answering, said to them, A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and a sign shall not be given to it save the sign of Jonas the prophet.
Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Again, Christ is reproving the Jews for their moral character.

With verse 32 we commence a series of parables and parabolic sayings. The fig tree is a parable of the Jew; and when we see a reviving of national life with that people we are to know that summer time is at hand, but until all things are fulfilled and that moment comes "this generation" shall not pass away. The Lord has spoken a number of times of this generation-see Matt. 11: 16; Matt. 12: 39, 45; Matt. 16: 4. It is a very ancient and persistent generation, for Moses denounced it in Deuteronomy 32: 5 and 20-"children in whom is no faith." The unbelieving generation will meet its doom when Jesus comes, but not before. They will go, and the words of Christ will abide. MATTHEW
F. B. Hole.

Also this from W.Kelly…

"This generation" is supposed to go on, and it is an evil generation, a generation which has no faith, a stubborn and Christ-rejecting generation. "This generation" or the non-believing race of the Jews is not to pass away till all these things have taken place. Thus the same generation which crucified the Lord of glory is going on still, and will, till He comes again in the clouds of heaven. They are still the same proud, self-righteous, Christ-rejecting race as they were then.

So the generation of Deut 32 is an ongoing moral class, an ongoing generation, a generation of froward, unbelieving Jews, a generation that will carry on until Christ returns in glory. F.B.Hole on luke 21…

Next comes the short parable of the fig tree. It is said to be "a parable," you notice, not a mere illustration. The fig tree stands for the Jew nationally. For centuries he has been dead nationally, and when at last there are signs of national reviving with them, and signs of reviving too with other "trees," of ancient nationalities, we may know that the millennial "summer" is near. Until that time comes there shall be no passing away of "this generation"-by this term the Lord indicated, we believe, that "froward generation . . . in whom is no faith," of which Moses spoke in Deuteronomy 32: 5, 20. When the kingdom is established, that generation will be gone.

The generation of Deut 32 was the same generation that crucified Christ. That generation has not “passed away”. It survived 70AD and the later Jewish wars. It survived the invasion of the Mohammedans and later the crusades. It survived the inquisitions and tsarist Russia. It survived the Nazi holocaust, and that same forward, unbelieving, Christ rejecting generation that crucified Christ is back in the land today. Ready for the final drama to be played out.

In conclusion, Mr Feraday…

Some find difficulty in the words, "This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" (verse 34), supposing the Lord to mean that all must be accomplished within the life-time of those who then heard Him. This has led some to interpret this chapter as referring to the overthrow of Jerusalem, which has had the effect of throwing them entirely off the track. "Generation" is used here in a moral sense, as in Ps. 12: 6, 7, and simply means that the unbelieving, Jewish people shall not cease to exist as such until all these words be fulfilled in them. Compare also Matt. 12: 43-45. Hence their existence amongst us to this hour, in spite of all their vicissitudes and sufferings.

U

 

[In Christ Forever]

Mar 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels

Notice how Christ characterizes the generation; he describes it as an “adulterous and sinful generation” he is focused on the moral character of the generation.

Well, by the way Jesus was talking to the religious rulers in that age/GENERATION, they must have been doing something wrong. God didn't talk about them too "kindly" in the OT either. Maybe that is why He destroyed their temple and them with it maybe. I can't imagine how evil and adulterous they were because I wasn't around back then, so I can only go what by what God and Jesus said in the Book. Hard to see Him talking about the jews like that now I think. Any opinions on that? God bless.

33 `Serpents! brood of vipers! how may ye escape from the judgment of the gehenna? 34 `Because of this, lo, I send to you prophets, and wise men, and scribes, and of them ye will kill and crucify, and of them ye will scourge in your synagogues, and will pursue from city to city; 35 that on you may come all the righteous blood being poured out on the earth from the blood of Abel the righteous, unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar: 36 verily I say to you, all these things shall come upon this generation. 37 `Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that art killing the prophets, and stoning those sent unto thee, how often did I will to gather thy children together, as a hen doth gather her own chickens under the wings, and ye did not will.


Revelation 11:1 Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, "Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. 2 "But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot [for] forty-two months.

reve 17:Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters, 2 "with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication." 3 So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast [which was] full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication. 5 And on her forehead a name [was] written: MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

jererm 13:24 " Therefore I will scatter them like stubble That passes away by the wind of the wilderness. 25 This is your lot, The portion of your measures from Me," says the LORD, "Because you have forgotten Me And trusted in falsehood. 26 Therefore I will uncover your skirts over your face, That your shame may appear. 27 I have seen your adulteries And your [lustful] neighings, The lewdness of your harlotry, Your abominations on the hills in the fields. Woe to you, O Jerusalem! Will you still not be made clean?"

ezekiel 6: 2 "Son of man, set your face toward the mountains of Israel, and prophesy against them, 3 "and say, 'O mountains[religious rulers and priests] of Israel, hear the word of the Lord GOD!' Thus says the Lord GOD to the mountains, to the hills, to the ravines, and to the valleys: "Indeed I, [even] I, will bring a sword against you, and I will destroy your high places. 9 "Then those of you who escape will remember Me among the nations where they are carried captive, because I was crushed by their adulterous heart which has departed from Me, and by their eyes which play the harlot after their idols; they will loathe themselves for the evils which they committed in all their abominations. 10 "And they shall know that I [am] the LORD; I have not said in vain that I would bring this calamity upon them." 11 ' Thus says the Lord GOD: "Pound your fists and stamp your feet, and say, 'Alas, for all the evil abominations of the house of Israel! For they shall fall by the sword, by famine, and by

 

[In Christ Forever]

By the way, what generation do you think Jesus was talking about as He was shedding His Blood on the Cross?


Luke 23: 28 But Jesus, turning to them, said, "Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. 29 "For indeed the days are coming in which they will say, 'Blessed [are] the barren, wombs that never bore, and breasts which never nursed!' 30 "Then they will begin 'to say to the mountains, "Fall on us!" and to the hills, "Cover us!" '

reve 6:15 and the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich, and the chiefs of thousands, and the mighty, and every servant, and every freeman, hidthemselves in the dens, and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and they say to the mountains and to the rocks, `Fall upon us, and hide us from the face of Him who is sitting upon the throne, and from the anger of the Lamb,' 17 because come did the great day of His anger, and who is able to stand?

NKJV Dan 12:7 And I hear the one clothed in linen, who [is] upon the waters of the flood, and he doth lift up his right hand and his left unto the heavens, and sweareth by Him who is living to the age, that, `After a time, times, and a half, and at the completion of the shattering of the power of the holy people, finished are all these.' 11 "And from the time [that] the daily [sacrifice] is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, [there shall be] one thousand two hundred and ninety days.

 

[Uzziah]

By the way, what generation do you think Jesus was talking about as He was shedding His Blood on the Cross?


Luke 23: 28 But Jesus, turning to them, said, "Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. 29 "For indeed the days are coming in which they will say, 'Blessed [are] the barren, wombs that never bore, and breasts which never nursed!' 30 "Then they will begin 'to say to the mountains, "Fall on us!" and to the hills, "Cover us!" '

reve 6:15 and the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich, and the chiefs of thousands, and the mighty, and every servant, and every freeman, hidthemselves in the dens, and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and they say to the mountains and to the rocks, `Fall upon us, and hide us from the face of Him who is sitting upon the throne, and from the anger of the Lamb,' 17 because come did the great day of His anger, and who is able to stand?

NKJV Dan 12:7 And I hear the one clothed in linen, who [is] upon the waters of the flood, and he doth lift up his right hand and his left unto the heavens, and sweareth by Him who is living to the age, that, `After a time, times, and a half, and at the completion of the shattering of the power of the holy people, finished are all these.' 11 "And from the time [that] the daily [sacrifice] is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, [there shall be] one thousand two hundred and ninety days.

do you think Jesus was talking about as He was shedding His Blood on the Cross?

What words from the cross are you talking about?

A great company (and women particularly mentioned) followed Him in mourning and lamentation. His words to them are striking. Rather than to weep for Him, He told them to weep for themselves and for their children, for the rejection of their Messiah would mean unspeakable sorrow and trouble for Israel. Rather than the normal blessedness of childbearing (Ps.127:3-5), the day was coming when those would be counted happy who had no children to suffer the anguish that Israel had invited upon herself in the cry, "His blood be upon us and on our children" (Mt.27:25). History has seen such days on many occasions for Israel since that time, but the worst is not yet. When He says they will cry to the mountains and hills to fall on them and cover them, this is a prophecy that reminds us of Revelation 6:15-17, though in Revelation it is not only Israel involved, but the nations also.

This prophecy of the Lord Jesus looks on to the time of the end, as verse 31 indicates. The Lord Himself was the green tree with promise of good fruit, which Israel rejected. The dry tree is the state of Israel in the time of the end, desolate and withered as a result of their long years of determined refusal of the grace of God in Christ. If people would so act in defiance of the opportunity of greatest blessing, what will take place when Israel comes to a place where there appears to be no prospect of blessing whatever? L.M.Grant

 

[In Christ Forever]

Hi Uzziah,
You will have to wait untill my commentary on revelation comes out as it will be pretty interesting. The 2 beasts in revelation "appear" to symbolically represent the 2 nations of the House of Israel. I will let you guess which one is which. The 7 churches are very involved in it also. Look at Thyatira and Philadelphia sometime. Dan and Ephraim replace Levi and Joseph in the land division of Ezekiel.
Anyway, this is all I can say on it brother. God bless.


Matthew 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, 2 saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 33 "Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell? 34 "Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: [some] of them you will kill and crucify, and [some] of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, 35 "that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.

reve 18:16 "and saying, 'Alas, alas, that great city that was clothed in fine linen, purple, and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls! 24 "And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth."


Jeremi 4:9 "And it shall come to pass in that day," says the LORD, "[That] the heart of the king shall perish, And the heart of the princes; The priests shall be astonished, And the prophets shall wonder." 10 Then I said, "Ah, Lord GOD! Surely You have greatly deceived this people and Jerusalem, Saying, 'You shall have peace,' Whereas the sword reaches to the heart." 11 At that time it will be said To this people and to Jerusalem, "A dry wind of the desolate heights [blows] in the wilderness Toward the daughter of My people -- Not to fan or to cleanse -- 12 A wind too strong for these will come for Me; Now I will also speak judgment against them." 13 "Behold, he shall come up like clouds, And his chariots like a whirlwind. His horses are swifter than eagles. Woe to us, for we are plundered!" 14 O Jerusalem, wash your heart from wickedness, That you may be saved. How long shall your evil thoughts lodge within you? 15 For a voice declares from Dan And proclaims affliction from Mount Ephraim: 16 "Make mention to the nations, Yes, proclaim against Jerusalem, [That] watchers come from a far country And raise their voice against the cities of Judah.