thinking of converting

[distancerunner]

I've given it a lot of thought, and I am offically thinking of converting...to...Catholicism. I have found no one (including my pastor) able to really show me otherwise and thought i'd give this board a shot as a last ditch effort to find out if what ive believed in my whole life is part sham.

Don't get me wrong, i do believe in Jesus as my savior, and i have accepted the holy spirit into my heart, but i've just been thinking about the history of my denomination and it doesn't add up. Officially, i'm Christian reformed (dutch reformed). i just don't understand how our church could, 1800+ years after Christ's death discover his true teachings. i struggle with it because it seems so arrogant of me to think that i could know the meaning of the scripture better than the apostles (meaning: why did we throw out those OT books that were held as scripture by not only Christians at the time of Christ, but Christ himself?) I have other questions but will leave it at this for now.

please help!!!

 

[Acceptance]

While I'm not really familiar with the teachings of the christian reformed (dutch reformed), 'sham' is a pretty strong word. I would encourage you to talk to a priest just to get some of your questions answered about what the Catholic Church teaches about the questions you have. You say you're thinking of converting, yet I must wonder how much you know about the Catholic church's teachings. Get informed and if you feel that is the church for you, go for it, convert! (which, if not even your pastor could convince you to believe what that church teaches, christian reformed is likely not the church for you)

Another way to get informed besides talking to a priest is to post your questions in the Catholic section of this forum. But beware that anyone can post messages there and you run the risk of getting wrong info.

Good luck, God Bless

 

[Fiskare]

I have been there.

I left Protestantism some time ago, and went through the various churches until I settled where I am now. I was a student at a theological college and saw through the protestant fascade within a year. However, becoming Roman Catholic is another proposition altogether. They're pretty liberal and you need a strong stomach to go to some masses.

Personally, I think a Christian needs to go where he or she can recieve all the sacraments and the word in purity. Somewhere where the fullness of all the Christian graces are available. Where nothing is lacking. Find these, and you are on the right path.

When one gets involved in the Roman/Orthodox circles, one has all those things available, but one needs to be careful that the trap of religion doesn't snare you. In Roman circles, one can fall into liberalism, or conversely, hardened Traditionalism, and in Orthodox cirlces, one normally falls into juristictional debates and fights. Avoid these traps, and focus on Jesus the Lord and you will be fine.

God Bless +

 

[kimber1]

distancerunner--i would encourage you to post questions in the OBOB forum. you will find some wonderful, wonderful people there more than willing to help you along your way!! God bless you on whatever decision you make and if you need any help i can point you to the people to talk to that can help!!

 

[The Midge]

Owen Chadwick opened his [History of] The Reformation thus:

At the beginning of the Sixteenth Century everyone that mattered in the Western Church was crying our for reformation.

For a century or more Western Europe had sought for reform of the Church. 'in head and in numbers' and had failed to find it.

If you asked people what they meant when they said that the Church needed reform, they would not have found it easy to agree...

He spends the rest of the opening chapter outlining the parlous state of the Church at that time. It sounded pretty corrupt and worldly. The Church had not been a faithful custodian of Christ's teaching and had become compromised with the politics of power. Also there were many who had vested interests resisting change if they hadn't then the Church could have been renewed without schism.

To be honest looking at the fractured state of the Church today I can see we need to reform and unify again. The Roman Catholic Church is a Christian Church as far as I can tell although I may not agree with all of her teaching, we have more in common than differences. If, fully understanding all the Catholic doctrines, you find that you are better able to worship God at a Catholic Church then it may be the best place for you. I would recommend that you read up on the Reformation (The book I quoted from is available from Penguin) and try and understand why all these events happened in the first place.

 

[distancerunner]

acceptance wrote:

You say you're thinking of converting, yet I must wonder how much you know about the Catholic church's teachings.

I have been reading more and more about it and the more I learn, the more things click. I've even looked into rcia classes, but am not sure if i'll go through with it yet.

fiskare wrote:

In Roman circles, one can fall into liberalism, or conversely, hardened Traditionalism, and in Orthodox cirlces, one normally falls into juristictional debates and fights.

LOL, i've never heard catholics called liberals, i always prided protestantism on being the more liberal of the two . Tradition was one of the things i found weird about the catholic church, but since actually learning about it, it makes a lot of sense.

 

[Fiskare]

LOL, i've never heard catholics called liberals, i always prided protestantism on being the more liberal of the two . Tradition was one of the things i found weird about the catholic church, but since actually learning about it, it makes a lot of sense.

Well, Catholics do have a very healthy and active liberal/feminist sector. In one cathedral in Australia, there is even female genitalia art on display. I'm sure there are more examples too. They have some liberal theologians too, such as Hans Kung, and they do have an influence on the church.

However, the centre of Roman Catholicism seems to be intact at this stage.

Tradition- I've read some wonderful descriptions of the role and necessity of tradition. If you can find the book "Comparative Theology" online, and you can, written by the Coptic Orthodox Patriarch Shenouda III, there is a wonderful chapter on tradition that is easy to follow and builds a very convincing case for it. I can't post links yet on this forum so I'll just tell you to look up the Coptic Pope online and download the book for free if you're interested in pursuing it. (try copticpope . org )

 

[Reformationist]

I've given it a lot of thought, and I am offically thinking of converting...to...Catholicism.

Ultimately the decision is, of course, going to be one you will make. I encourage you to pray and seek the guidance of the Lord. While I don't agree with the teachings of the Catholic church, I have met some very God centered people that are Catholics, some on this very MB.

Still, I encourage you to seek the counsel of others and base your decision on a well researched plan to glorify the Lord.

I have found no one (including my pastor) able to really show me otherwise and thought i'd give this board a shot as a last ditch effort to find out if what ive believed in my whole life is part sham.

Well, I'm not familiar with Dutch reformed but I am a reformed Christian myself. I cannot guarantee that what you believe or have been taught is accurate. What is it that you're struggling with? Are there tenets of your faith that you feel are shaky?

Don't get me wrong, i do believe in Jesus as my savior, and i have accepted the holy spirit into my heart, but i've just been thinking about the history of my denomination and it doesn't add up. Officially, i'm Christian reformed (dutch reformed). i just don't understand how our church could, 1800+ years after Christ's death discover his true teachings.

It sounds to me like you feel that by virtue of the Catholic church's claims of being the church that teaches what Christ taught and their age you feel they may provide for you something that you are lacking?

i struggle with it because it seems so arrogant of me to think that i could know the meaning of the scripture better than the apostles (meaning: why did we throw out those OT books that were held as scripture by not only Christians at the time of Christ, but Christ himself?)

Ummm...well, first off, I doubt any of us on this MB, to include the Catholics, know Scripture better than the Apostles. Secondly, what leads you to believe that "we threw out those OT books that were held as scripture by not only Christians at the time of Christ, but Christ himself?" What leads you to believe that the books that Protestants don't recognize as the Word of God are, in fact, Scripture? Being a reformed Christian myself I can tell you that I truly believe that what the Roman Catholic church teaches is not the Gospel that Christ taught. I'm sure they would disagree and I would be happy to address any of your concerns as best I'm able.

I have other questions but will leave it at this for now.

please help!!!

Ask away. Try to be specific.

God bless,
Don

 

[Reformationist]

I was a student at a theological college and saw through the protestant fascade within a year.

They must not have focused on spelling...

Fiskare, if you mean "facade" I encourage you to qualify these types of statements as such, "...saw through what I believe is the protestant facade within a year." You're talking about people's faith here. There's no need to use such inflammatory words.

Personally, I think a Christian needs to go where he or she can recieve all the sacraments and the word in purity. Somewhere where the fullness of all the Christian graces are available. Where nothing is lacking. Find these, and you are on the right path.

Just for the record distancerunner, there are plenty of Protestant churches "where the fullness of all the Christian graces are available and where nothing is lacking."

God bless

 

[ej]

Hi, Distancerunner.

It's difficult to step back and look at these things objectively. Everyone here has given good advice (even Reformationist - I don't always agree with him, but I certainly respect his words!)

My advice would be to educate yourself. Read all the literature / comment / philosophy / opinion you can get your hands on! Then you can decide for yourself, with the opinion of others on board. Balanced.

I agree with you that the true word of God cannot possibly have been discovered 500 years ago when Martin Luther 'amended' the Bible!

I also agree with the Reformed / Protestant thought that the Catholic church had strayed from the point in hand - the 16thC church had a few bizarre ideas and traditions which were mostly banished during the counter-reformation.

Happy reading, best of luck in your journey, and I hope to bump into you soon in OBOB!

Peace be with you
Emma

 

[Fiskare]

They must not have focused on spelling...

Actually, good spelling and grammar was encouraged. However, sarcasm was not. Grace and courtesy when dealing with other's mistakes was also encouraged and I think these are profitable practices even on the internet.

Fiskare, if you mean "facade" I encourage you to qualify these types of statements as such, "...saw through what I believe is the protestant facade within a year." You're talking about people's faith here. There's no need to use such inflammatory words.

I had no intention of being inflammatory. Are you really offended?

Just for the record distancerunner, there are plenty of Protestant churches "where the fullness of all the Christian graces are available and where nothing is lacking."

You should take a leaf out of your own book. I encourage you also to qualify these types of statements as such ".....I am of the opinion that there are plenty of protestant churches where the fullness of all the Christian graces are available and where nothing is lacking".

 

[Preachers12]

please help!!!

Distancerunner, Peace be with you.

You are in my prayers.

Pose some questions on the One Bread, One Body forum. There are many very knowledgeable people there who will help you to understand Catholic beliefs.

God Bless,
P12

 

[BAChristian]

Hi Distancerunner...feel free to PM me as I'm presently considering Catholicism as well...

Maybe we can compliment each other's journeys...

 

[Reformationist]

Actually, good spelling and grammar was encouraged. However, sarcasm was not. Grace and courtesy when dealing with other's mistakes was also encouraged and I think these are profitable practices even on the internet.

Okay, just for the record, I didn't put the WINKING smilie there to flirt with you. It was to make it clear that I was picking at you. It wasn't so malicious. Don't be so thin skinned.

I had no intention of being inflammatory. Are you really offended?

No. I'm not offended but unless you meant imply that my beliefs are "false, superficial, or artificial" then you used an inappropriate word.

You should take a leaf out of your own book. I encourage you also to qualify these types of statements as such ".....I am of the opinion that there are plenty of protestant churches where the fullness of all the Christian graces are available and where nothing is lacking".

LOL! No, that isn't a page from my book. "My book" was a "reference guide" on how to make comments on the faith of others. I know that the Protestant faith has the fullness of the grace of God. Now, if I had desired to say something as a reference to the "Anglo-Catholic" faith it would be wise, to avoid offending you, to preface my comments with "I am of the opinion..." See the difference? If you feel that your faith has the fullness of all the Christian graces and nothing is lacking then I certainly don't expect you to preface that as being your opinion. It's not a derrogatory statement about the faith of a fellow Christian.

 

[Ken]

I do not know about others Fiskare, but I know I was very offended by your statement calling Protestanism a "facade"..... if you are so concerned about "Grace and courtesy, you may want to practice some yourself....

 

[Ken]

distancerunner, you may want to check out James White's Alpha and Omega Ministries, there is a section there devoted specifically to debating what are considered to be, from a classical Christian/Reformed perspective, the errors of Roman Catholicism.....
http://aomin.org/Roman.html

blessings

 

[distancerunner]

Please don't fight. I didnt want to turn this into a debate, plus, it's thread drift

God bless

 

[Benedicta00]

distancerunner, you may want to check out James White's Alpha and Omega Ministries, there is a section there devoted specifically to debating what are considered to be, from a classical Christian/Reformed perspective, the errors of Roman Catholicism.....
http://aomin.org/Roman.html

blessings

distancerunner,


And when your done doing that you may want to read Patty Bond's conversion story to Catholicism. She was James White's sister. I say was, because he disowned her after she left the reformed belief for Catholicism.

She tells a beautiful story how her coming to terms with the truth cost her, her brother, but she knew there was no denying the faith.

Once she learned and got passed the myth and lies that are often told about Catholicism she saw how invalid all the arguments her brother made against the Church was and she says it was her reformed pastor that cinched it when she went to seek guidance from him he told her something to the effect, “you have a choice, you can stay here with us or go and become part of a religion that is 2000 years old…”

She says all she could do is just smile and say, thank you.

 

[distancerunner]

Don wrote:

what leads you to believe that "we threw out those OT books that were held as scripture by not only Christians at the time of Christ, but Christ himself?" What leads you to believe that the books that Protestants don't recognize as the Word of God are, in fact, Scripture?

Because as I was taught, during the reformation when Martin Luther was trying to get back to the way the church originally was intended to be, he reverted back to the version of the bible that was only written in Hebrew. But even the Jews used the 'extra books' until about 70AD when Jerusalem was taken over and they wanted to distance themselves from Christians as much as possible. Plus, the Septuagint, which the Christian bible used for the 1400 years or so prior to the reformation was originally translated from, included those books. Also, they found them included in the Dead sea scrolls version of the OT. It just seems like a lot of evidence that those books were included by the early Christians and Luther took them out. Plus, we know that Luther initially took out several books of the NT (i.e. revelations) which were later readded. This being the case, what would prevent him from taking out books of the OT as well?

I don't know, pray for me.

 

[geocajun]

distancerunner, you may want to check out James White's Alpha and Omega Ministries, there is a section there devoted specifically to debating what are considered to be, from a classical Christian/Reformed perspective, the errors of Roman Catholicism.....
http://aomin.org/Roman.html

blessings

James Whites own sister saw through his claims and became Catholic

www.whostartedyourchurch.com