Think I'll sit down here for a bit... (2)

it is good to see some "venting" helping all of us clear the air some -- this is a nice lutheran home for us all, and i hope and pray things will continue to grow for us all here spiritually and in fellowship


it is very frustrating to have people come into your "home" to ask a question and then go overboard (isn't that why i don't answer the door to JW or mormons??)

Jim47 said:

I know I don't like it but I think everyone is craving for new discussion. I read Dan's reason wht he became EO and I cringed. Another idol worshiper

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I noticed that as well. Not one of them, including Fr. Fenton, cited Scriptural error in Lutheran doctrine for the reason they left. It all had to do with tradition.

If they need a guilded lily to be more impressed than fed, so be it. The idea of being proud about bowing to an idol and holding tradition above Scripture tells me that their focus is skewed. Unbelievable, pretty much sums it up.

porterross said:

I noticed that as well. Not one of them, including Fr. Fenton, cited Scriptural error in Lutheran doctrine for the reason they left. It all had to do with tradition.

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YOU READ MY MIND!! I was thinking of posting this tonight...I was out at a Ladies Society meeting and thinking about that! LOL

porterross said:

Rev and I had a loooooong talk today and hopefully he'll be back soon. He's pretty busy right now, but as far as I know, he's fine.

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Hey everyone! It looks like today has been a bit of a downer.

seajoy said:

You've sure brightened it up with your spring outfit!

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Indeed! Very pretty Kim.

Yes, today was kind of a downer. I look forward to tomorrow.

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Rev won't be back until Sunday night or Monday. With whom shall I partake the fighting of the pillows?

porterross said:

Rev won't be back until Sunday night or Monday. With whom shall I partake the fighting of the pillows?

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Start runnin'!

I'll catch ya in the Pillow Fight thread...

seajoy said:

I'm tuckered .....goodnight everyone. Tomorrow is a new day in Christ.

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Yes, it is!

I for one, found the EO threads facinating. I'm always interested in hearing another person's view on something, including the Church.

LCMS is in serious trouble. Our clergy and laity are getting fed up with the infighting. Naturally, these people will go different directions. EO strikes me as rather... out there, but hey? What about the ELCA? I've been watching the information about what's happening in my denom here and searching the news. I'm not sure what I'll do if the current leadership continues after the conferrence. But, no, EO or RCC are out of the question (LOL)!

It was very dismaying to see that these discussions upset so many dear friends here. Hopefully tomorrow will be a better day.

God bless you all, and good night.

porterross said:

I noticed that as well. Not one of them, including Fr. Fenton, cited Scriptural error in Lutheran doctrine for the reason they left. It all had to do with tradition.

If they need a guilded lily to be more impressed than fed, so be it. The idea of being proud about bowing to an idol and holding tradition above Scripture tells me that their focus is skewed. Unbelievable, pretty much sums it up.

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If you don't like the LCMS, go to Wels then...just don't stray into some other kingdom.

porterross said:

I noticed that as well. Not one of them, including Fr. Fenton, cited Scriptural error in Lutheran doctrine for the reason they left. It all had to do with tradition.

If they need a guilded lily to be more impressed than fed, so be it. The idea of being proud about bowing to an idol and holding tradition above Scripture tells me that their focus is skewed. Unbelievable, pretty much sums it up.

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I agree, that's in my reasons I left the RCC - had serious issues with the idols. However, I had to laugh when you said it all had to do with tradition. We don't have traditions we hold as near and dear? I bet we do.

Can tradition be it's own idol? I've wondered that off and on.

You guys, for example, get bent out of shape if a Lutheran Church has a contemporary service, even if the music are traditional hyms remixed with contemporary music. Why? Tradition!! I've seen you arguing about the color of the cover of the hymn books! Tradition isn't always as pretty as a gold statue of Mary, but you all hold onto it pretty tight, even if it isn't specifically mentioned in the Bible - like, I don't know, forms of music? God just says to make a joyful noise. Joyful noises comes in many forms - pretty much every form except rap.

There are a lot of traditions we Lutherans hold to that aren't Biblical. Godparents come to mind. Godparents are not specifically mentioned in the Bible, my pastor says that every time someone gets baptized, but when our children get baptized, the parents always name them, and they are standing up there with the family. Is it Biblical to put a purple cross (or purple drape around a cross) in the sanctuary during Lent? Is there a specific verse that says the cross needs to be purple during that time? No, we do it because of the symbolism and because of tradition. I can go on...

Maybe our difference is that we don't worship our traditions. However, some of us hold them so dear that we might as well.

You guys, for example, get bent out of shape if a Lutheran Church has a contemporary service, even if the music are traditional hyms remixed with contemporary music. Why? Tradition!!

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It's not about tradition but the fact that the contemporary stuff isn't as theologically rich as the hymns. Why give the people watered down garbage?

I was interested in the EO thread, though I did feel it was getting a bit out of hand. I want to understand the political and doctrinal challenges that Lutherans are facing, since I'm coming at it from an outsiders' perspective. Just from participating here, I've come to the conclusion that the congregation we attend seems to be a rare bird among LCMS -- liturgical AND confessional.

That doesn't mean no contemporary songs. It means contemporary music is judged by the confessional standards. One of the most popular songs on the Christian music radio that I listen to is "You Raise Me Up." It's sweet, the music is powerful, but I often cringe when I hear it. It is so me-focused. It's all about what God does "For me" in my particular circumstances, not what God did for all of us on the Cross. It's not necessarily non-Scriptural -- God does guide and protect and strengthen us in time of trouble. But it's like a bit of marshmallow fluff when my belly aches for steak. Or at least something more solid.

Another song that I hear a lot is Give Thanks with a Grateful Heart. That one speaks to the same theme.. God giving us strength in adversity. But it points to Christ much more strongly than the first one did. It is more corporate than personal. It doesn't rely on experiential feelings to bring out the emotion and joy.

Guess why Give Thanks is in the new hymnal, and You Raise Me Up is not.

I have no problem with contemporary music, in and of itself. Each song, though, has to be judged on its own merit. And some of them fall far short of the sort of healthy, hearty fare I would want to sing in corporate worship.

I think, though, that a LOT of good songs have come out of contemporary Christian music, and that we could find more songs that fit our Scriptural, Cross-centered requirements and incorporate them into our worship. Personally, I hate the idea of "contemporary" and "traditional" services. I think the best idea is so-called "blended worship", where you keep the liturgical framework and judiciously include a few contemporary songs here and there.

wow. Didn't realize I was going to write a book on this. This probably isn't the thread for this discussion. I guess it really hit a nerve with me.