things aren't well between me and God

[ColdTurkey]

I'm not even sure what all to say here. I have not been on good terms with God for 5 months. My relationship with him hasn't seemed to work and after months of frustration, I don't even know if I want him in my life. Of course, I know there's nothing else in the world to turn to. So I don't know what to do.

I think I've figured out that my relationship with God has mostly been out of fear and obedience. I find it hard to see myself as needing a savior and I find it hard to picture a relationship with God where I'm not worried about the relationship. I want to be free from that.

The problem is, my heart is not repentant. I feel safe right now. I don't feel convicted of any sin and I don't feel any attraction toward God, even though all the facts say I should. So I'm frustrated with God, distant from him, and I don't even know if I want him at all.

 

[Johnnz]

You have a negative gospel implanted into you, a simplistic sin/saviour paradigm. That gets negative and boring.

Get hold of a very readable, yet very thoughtful book like "Velvet Elvis" and see what else is really there that is really exciting as a vision for life.

John
NZ

 

[HoneyComb Son]

Hello ColdTurkey,

I am where you are,...it sucks..but you are not alone

You should get to know the real God..if you did..you would be attracted to Him..I know this..because i have to do it aswell..and dont know if i even want God..

but just hang in there..by you coming here shows you want something of God.so that is good

look for fresh things...from God..ask God to lead you..and open your mind/heart..if you want something fresh..be open to new things.and i bet God will lead you to things that will draw you to Him more an more..bringing peace and love

 

[texastig]

I'm not even sure what all to say here. I have not been on good terms with God for 5 months. My relationship with him hasn't seemed to work and after months of frustration, I don't even know if I want him in my life. Of course, I know there's nothing else in the world to turn to. So I don't know what to do.

I think I've figured out that my relationship with God has mostly been out of fear and obedience. I find it hard to see myself as needing a savior and I find it hard to picture a relationship with God where I'm not worried about the relationship. I want to be free from that.

The problem is, my heart is not repentant. I feel safe right now. I don't feel convicted of any sin and I don't feel any attraction toward God, even though all the facts say I should. So I'm frustrated with God, distant from him, and I don't even know if I want him at all.

God brings people into deep waters. Not to drown them but to cleanse them.

Check out this website:
http://www.fathersloveletter.com/flltext.html
The table is being prepared for you<-------!!!!!
Thanks,
TT

 

[ColdTurkey]

Thank you all for your replies. All of your advice sounds good and I've heard similar things said before, but I'm faced with the problem that I just can't believe these things. I can admit that I cannot prove any of the Bible wrong, but I can't embrace God as a loving savior personally. Lately I've been praying to God a little (which I hadn't done for months), but my prayers feel fake and pointless. The truth is, I don't trust God and I'm afraid of him being in my life because I don't know if I can handle it. These fears may be irrational or ungrounded, but I feel safer without him. Part of me wants to change this, but if my soul is convinced of something, I can't change it with sheer willpower. I've tried. It doesn't work. So I feel like there's nothing I can do. I can read all about God's love and the wonderful life he has for me, but I just can't make it personal. I'm not even sure why I'm posting on this site because I'm fairly convinced that nothing anybody says will change me. Oh well. I guess it doesn't hurt to vent though...

 

[texastig]

Thank you all for your replies. All of your advice sounds good and I've heard similar things said before, but I'm faced with the problem that I just can't believe these things. I can admit that I cannot prove any of the Bible wrong, but I can't embrace God as a loving savior personally. Lately I've been praying to God a little (which I hadn't done for months), but my prayers feel fake and pointless. The truth is, I don't trust God and I'm afraid of him being in my life because I don't know if I can handle it. These fears may be irrational or ungrounded, but I feel safer without him. Part of me wants to change this, but if my soul is convinced of something, I can't change it with sheer willpower. I've tried. It doesn't work. So I feel like there's nothing I can do. I can read all about God's love and the wonderful life he has for me, but I just can't make it personal. I'm not even sure why I'm posting on this site because I'm fairly convinced that nothing anybody says will change me. Oh well. I guess it doesn't hurt to vent though...

Hanging out with God is the most exciting thing that ever happened to me. I have purpose in life and I get up everyday looking forward to our fellowship. The old hymn, "In The Garden" is reality in my life.
God loved us so much that He gave His Son. His Son loved us so much that He died for us.
Don't go by feelings in your prayers. Feelings come and go.
Go by what God has promised and you can take it to the bank.
Thanks,
TT

 

[Johnnz]

Thank you all for your replies. All of your advice sounds good and I've heard similar things said before, but I'm faced with the problem that I just can't believe these things. I can admit that I cannot prove any of the Bible wrong, but I can't embrace God as a loving savior personally. Lately I've been praying to God a little (which I hadn't done for months), but my prayers feel fake and pointless. The truth is, I don't trust God and I'm afraid of him being in my life because I don't know if I can handle it. These fears may be irrational or ungrounded, but I feel safer without him. Part of me wants to change this, but if my soul is convinced of something, I can't change it with sheer willpower. I've tried. It doesn't work. So I feel like there's nothing I can do. I can read all about God's love and the wonderful life he has for me, but I just can't make it personal. I'm not even sure why I'm posting on this site because I'm fairly convinced that nothing anybody says will change me. Oh well. I guess it doesn't hurt to vent though...

You are right. Willpower won't change you inside.

Do you have any idea why you fear God like that? Were you exposed to negative, fear of hell type teaching? Can you relate comfortably to others, and show emotions?

John
NZ

 

[BlessEwe]

I don't think there is anyone of us who haven't gone through what you are talking about. You are questioning your faith, and reaching for a closer relationship with Christ.
Now the enemy is quick to jump in and give you lies and doubts. I do feel this is what Jesus was talking about " Having the faith of children". Just ask the Holy Spirit to pray for you, put the hedge of protection around you, and allow God to do the rest in you.
I do feel He is bringing you into a deeper level, and of coarse the enemy doesn't want that for you.
God doesn't want a legal, judging relationship with you. He loves you very much. Write down what you are feeling right now, open it in a year from now and you will see Gods Hand moving gently in you. Don't allow the guilt ect. in and know that you are a child of Christ.
I have found that these times are the most beautiful heart opening times looking back, to really see God move in a closed off sinner like me. Each time it happens it brings me that much closer to God once I am out of the valley. Just keep on and God will lead you, even though you don't see it right now.

 

[ColdTurkey]

I don't really know what to say. I know many of the things you all are telling me. I know I'm not supposed to rely on feelings but to trust in God's promises. I know his relationship with me should be based on love, not judgment. I know I should just trust God and "Allow God to do the rest." ...I just can't. I don't know why and I feel silly coming onto this forum when I know my heart will probably reject any advice, no matter how good it is.

I don't really know why I fear God the way I do. There might be a couple of factors I can think of (that may or may not be crucial to the problem): (1) God seems arbitrary and dangerous at times (you can look at a thread I posted under "Ask a chaplain" called "Can't trust God" for more detail on my thoughts here). (2) My relationship with him has been in and out of these slumps for a while and it seems like he just chooses to leave whenever he wants. (3) I don't understand how a person can sin in a relationship with God and not be worried about the relationship. (4) I don't think I can be submissive and good enough to trust God all the time. I just know that if I get in the right mood I'm going to be prideful and defend myself and not care about God.

It doesn't seem like I have the power to change any of these circumstances or views. I was not really exposed to any fear or negative teaching. The fear came from me probably. I can relate fairly comfortably to others and show emotion (tho there are of course some people I feel more comfortable with).

By the way, thanks to those who are responding.

 

[Johnnz]

Hi,

You have raised several issues.

a) We need a reasonable basis for our faith. It is not blind obedience, faith is not a jump into the dark. We are to love god 'with all our minds'.

b) God is bigger than our sin. No human, even the greatest of saints, is immune to failure and awareness of being less than perfect. That is why God provided us with a salvation that is greater than our human weaknesses.

c) Some things about God have not been explained to you if you see God as arbitrary and dangerous. Those ideas derive from lack of good teaching.

d) Can't trust God all the time? None of us do. Trust is a learned response, developed from experience. We are all on a journey where we are constantly discovering the reality of God in new ways.

You need some really good information about Christianity that lodges in your brain and you can see is meaningfully based.

Bless you
John
NZ

 

[ColdTurkey]

Yeah.... I don't really have much of a response right now. I know all of these things are true. I just can't make these truths personal for me. I know that I can't be perfect and that God forgives, but if I find my heart straying from him, I panic. Even if God's love doesn't waver when my heart wanders, I still have a problem because when I'm like that I become indifferent and irritable and start feeling pretty purposeless. So if God is faithful when I stray from him, it doesn't help much because I'm not faithful to him and I can't help it.

Just last night I was praying to God and I thought I was getting close to coming back to him, but when I thought about the pressure I was entering to pray often and to worship in church, I just collapsed. My heart wasn't there. I don't know what my heart wanted, but it didn't want to praise God or serve him. I can't make my heart want these things. I don't know what to do.

 

[Johnnz]

Has anyone ever told you that being a Christian is not about religious practices, routines or always feeling great about it?

Have you been told that being a Christian is an inclusion into the greatest story of our lives? We are part of a story that goes back beyond our time, that has a cast of everyone who will ever exist, that we work together with and opposed to various spiritual beings far more powerful and glorious than we can imagine. No one is insignificant, as we all have a part in the story, a story that has a dramatic act before it moves into becoming an eternal dimension in our experience. It involves plot and counterplot, disguise, deception, strategies, hidden messages and covert operations that aren't always obvious, requiring effort, imagination, discernment and perseverance.

Sitting in a church warbling songs is such a small part of that story. We need the bigger picture and a broader vision. And to participate in actively loving and serving, the paradoxical stratagem for overcoming the might of the dark powers. Star Wars and Hollywood have just scratched the surface of this story.

John
NZ

 

[rushingwind62]

I think most of us have been where you are at. You feel distant from God and questioning your faith. I once felt that way until God showed me where I was at. He laid a poem on my heart and it ministered to my soul and heart. I am going to share it with you and hope that it minsters to you as it did me...my prayers are with you...God Bless!!

THE VALLEY OF THE SHADOW OF DEATH



It's a place where you must walk alone,
there is no one to turn to, no one to help you.
In it you are searching for who you are,
and you can only trust in the Lord and believe He will see you through.
In that valley you face all your fears,
and those fears with God's word you overcome.
You search for the answer to all your questions,
not finding them until your test is won.
Through the valley of the shadow of death,
there is a very bright light that shines.
And to get to that light you must endure the darkness alone.
Many say this world is that valley but I say,
that valley is where you must make a choice.
To either follow the way of the world and all your fears,
or to follow me and obey my voice.
The Lord says, remember I too wandered in this wilderness,
for forty days and forty nights.
Did I lay down in my fears?
No! with the word I did fight.
So as I said to my disciples, come, follow me,
so I say to you.
Come, follow me through the valley of the shadow of death,
through it death and fear you will overcome and the victory will be won.
It is a commitment and sacred vow,
to do what I have called you to.
Yea, though you walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
fear no evil, for my rod and staff shall comfort you.
Salvation is only the door to that valley and there,
in that valley, to yourself and your fears you must die.
Few have completed this journey through the valley,
but many are in this valley and in their fears they lie.
Rise up! And stand upon your feet,
set your face like a flint toward the light.
Do what I am telling you to do,
PICK UP MY SWORD AND FIGHT!!!!
Then in the presence of your enemies,
I will prepare a table for you.
And I will anoint your head with oil,
and fill your cup with blessings you never knew.
You must commit your ways unto me,
and overcome the enemy with my word.
Then for all of eternity you will dwell,
in the house of the Lord.

 

[ColdTurkey]

To John:
Yes I have heard that before and that is what used to give me enthusiasm. But there is still a personal aspect of the Christian life, a relationship with God that must be genuine and full of love. Without this, trying to live this great story is pointless. That is my problem. I cannot love God and I no longer care about the Christian story.

To Rushingwind62:
Thank you for your words of encouragement. I know the only thing I can do here is keep striving toward God. It's what I've been trying to do. I only wish I could have the confidence and hope that you describe in your poem.

 

[Johnnz]

To John:
Yes I have heard that before and that is what used to give me enthusiasm. But there is still a personal aspect of the Christian life, a relationship with God that must be genuine and full of love. Without this, trying to live this great story is pointless. That is my problem. I cannot love God and I no longer care about the Christian story.

I became a Christian at 13. I knew Jesus, and the reality of that relationship. As I matured I had issues with normal (I recognise that now!) sexuality, growing questions, and a sense of a mental rather than an experiential relationship with God. That began times of questioning and a general dissatisfaction with mt spiritual life.

Came university and my world was blown apart. I could not doubt my earlier experiences of Jesus. They were too real ever to deny. I accepted Jesus as real and risen. But at that time liberal theology was dominant in intellectual circles, and just what to believe was an issue. That began an earnest search, involving apologetics, theology, devotional material and questioning of all that I believed. I wanted (actually needed) a reasonable, rational, relevant faith.

I discovered the reality of the Holy Spirit in Pentecostal circles, but tired of their brain dead understanding of Scripture.

Bit by bit is understood why we can trust the biblical record, who Jesus really was and what he accomplished. I pieced together a Christian worldview (a work always in progress), adequate responses to non Christian argument, and a faith that was 24/7 relevant, no longer divided into a sacred/secular dichotomy. C S Lewis, Frances Schaeffer, a local theologian and friendships with some biblical scholars all contributed to my thinking and faith.

During some really hard times that homework has kept me. During one exceedingly dark period I knew deeply that I had nowhere else to turn. However deep the darkness was, God was still there. From that darkness, abut 15 years ago came a new level of faith, humility, conviction and certainty.

You are somewhere on the same road. You will either work through your issues or abandon Christianity. I trust you work through to the latter. There are just so many wonderful resources available today that I did not have over 50 years ago. Use them and become a richer Christian.

May God richly bless you and your search.

John
NZ

 

[ColdTurkey]

Johnnz,
Thanks for sharing that. It really encouraged me. Apparently I'm not alone in my struggles and it's nice to hear that someone went through something similar and came out on top. Like you did years ago, I am now searching. Hopefully I will be able to piece things together as you did. I just hope I can do it soon.

 

[LoG]

Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, love is the end, and grace is the vehicle that takes us from one to the other.
When I was young, I thought that my fear and willpower was keeping me on the straight and narrow but it was not enough. As i grew older and strayed away from Him, my choices and actions got progressively worse because as I realize in hindsight, His spirit was no longer giving me the power to choose and do the right thing. His Spirit is a very subtle presence that has its evidence more in the fruits of a life then in any real consistently discernible "feeling". I can still mistake it today for my own willpower although I quickly realize my mistaken thinking when I fall flat on my face.

There are times too when I rebel because I have some anger, bitterness or fear toward a person or thing which I don't want to let go of. His Spirit is quenched until I set the matter right. It isn't always an obvious anger or fear because I try to deny that I have it but deep down it is still there waiting for me to repent of it.

 

[Johnnz]

he analogy of a jig saw puzzle came to mind. Initially I had quite a lot of the edge pieces sorted. I thought these were the whole puzzle! Then, I saw what they were - the edges needed a middle to support them. My life has been a progressive filling up if missing pieces.

Yet, and incomprehensively to those who want absolute certainty for their faith, I am more confident and secure about my faith the more I recognise another piece has not been put in place yet, a paradox indeed.

But a God who becomes confined to the limits of our minds would be a very small god indeed. Tennyson wrote:
"There lives more faith in honest doubt, believe me, than in half the creeds."

John
NZ

 

[AngusArgyle]

Hi ColdTurkey,

I understand this can be a difficult time. Believe in yoruself and your feelings and trust in your faith and you can turn this around. My thoughts are with you.

Angus..