If the burger joint owner/manager willingly and openly caters a "wedding" reception by delivering 500 cheeseburgers in rainbow boxes to the site with a sticker on each one saying "Congratulations, Hector and Percy!", then yes, I would say that the owner/manager is participating in a situation which is wrong, and by means of the messages, he is also encouraging the deviant and sinful behavior of the two homosexuals involved in the whole thing.
Burger joints usually don't run into this type of thing, where they are asked to deliberately violate their own faith by means of the products they offer; bakeries, florists, and hall rentals, regrettably, do.
Thanks for totally proving our point!
And if that same catholic baker is delivering to the weddings of, say, divorced people re-marrying? Or using non-fair-trade chocolate in his cakes.If the burger joint owner/manager willingly and openly caters a "wedding" reception by delivering 500 cheeseburgers in rainbow boxes to the site with a sticker on each one saying "Congratulations, Hector and Percy!", then yes, I would say that the owner/manager is participating in a situation which is wrong, and by means of the messages, he is also encouraging the deviant and sinful behavior of the two homosexuals involved in the whole thing.
Burger joints usually don't run into this type of thing, where they are asked to deliberately violate their own faith by means of the products they offer; bakeries, florists, and hall rentals, regrettably, do.
I have tried to get the opposing side to explain their position. My post history is full of threads where I do this repeatedly, for pages on end. But there is never an explanation beyond same-sex marriage, and everything deriving from it, apparently needing to exist for the government to not discriminate, and if you have to ask why that is you are a bigot.
Your point, as I understand it, is that gay marriage is making marriage obsolete.
The point of these studies and research projects is that the economic challenges young people face today because of corporate greed, union-busting and the evaporation of jobs due to globalization and technology is causing them to marry later, and perhaps not to marry at all.
Another factor (one I'm familiar with) is that when extended families are scattered due to frequent job transfers or job changes sending them all over the country, the strong support system of the extended family disappears.
Similar to the myth that abortion is the cause of every single societal problem today...or the myth that Vatican II is responsible for every lapsed Catholic in the world....gay marriage does not cause heterosexuals to remain single.
If the burger joint owner/manager willingly and openly caters a "wedding" reception by delivering 500 cheeseburgers in rainbow boxes to the site with a sticker on each one saying "Congratulations, Hector and Percy!", then yes, I would say that the owner/manager is participating in a situation which is wrong, and by means of the messages, he is also encouraging the deviant and sinful behavior of the two homosexuals involved in the whole thing.
Burger joints usually don't run into this type of thing, where they are asked to deliberately violate their own faith by means of the products they offer; bakeries, florists, and hall rentals, regrettably, do.
gay marriage does not cause heterosexuals to remain single.
And if that same catholic baker is delivering to the weddings of, say, divorced people re-marrying? Or using non-fair-trade chocolate in his cakes.
The selectiveness gives the lie to the pretence.
All that this website has done is convince me that there can be no communication between the two sides of this issue. I have tried to get the opposing side to explain their position. My post history is full of threads where I do this repeatedly, for pages on end. But there is never an explanation beyond same-sex marriage, and everything deriving from it, apparently needing to exist for the government to not discriminate, and if you have to ask why that is you are a bigot.
Why do you draw that line where you do?
Why isn't it a violation of a Christian Hardware store owners faith and morals to simply sell a hammer to a gay man who could use it to complete repairs to the house he and his husband just bought?
By selling him that hammer, is he not "encouraging the deviant and sinful behavior of the two homosexuals involved in the whole thing"?
Sure. When a couple of homosexuals go to a Christian bakery and want a gay wedding cake, and the baker says, "I'm sorry, we don't carry that here," the homosexuals and their liberal fellow travelers go completely berserk. But if an atheist couple go to a Muslim halal deli and want a couple of ham sandwiches, and the Muslim owner says, "I'm sorry, we don't carry that here," the gays and libs never so much as twitch.
No, I think you have it pretty spot on actually.For now. We all know fully well that that will not be enough for the Pink Mafia. Churches will face increasingly strenuous pressure to either roll over and acquiesce, or be destroyed by pickets, threats, lawsuits (it will come), petty legal restrictions, you name it. All designed to force church to tow the line, or be forced out of operation.
You think I'm out of my mind, right? Sit back and watch.
Sure. When a couple of homosexuals go to a Christian bakery and want a gay wedding cake, and the baker says, "I'm sorry, we don't carry that here," the homosexuals and their liberal fellow travelers go completely berserk. But if an atheist couple go to a Muslim halal deli and want a couple of ham sandwiches, and the Muslim owner says, "I'm sorry, we don't carry that here," the gays and libs never so much as twitch.
How are the two situations any different? They aren't.
Because for all the hardware guy knows, the homosexual may be using the hammer to build chicken coops or housing for the homeless. But the baker doesn't have that benefit of a doubt when he's asked to provide a cake that says "Congratulations on your wedding, Rupert and Jethro".
I love the moral equivalence in this post. I am wondering where is gene for homosexuality? We know that skin colour is regulated by certain genes. But the problem is that those groups who refused to marry "interracial" couples did so out spite for what the Bible teaches and were in step with what the world teaches.Every once in a while, I read an article about some congregationalist church in the south that refuses to marry interracial couples or something. They are allowed to discriminate in that way if they do so on religious grounds in the context of a religious ceremony, but fortunately the government and non-religious businesses that are considered public accommodations, like restaurants, are not allowed to discriminate against interracial couples.
That's the same way gay marriage is likely going to go- churches don't have to marry gays if they don't want to, but gays will have the right to go to a court house and get civil marriages with all the legal and taxation rights that come with it, on the grounds of equal protection under the law. They'll also be allowed to buy wedding cakes from businesses that sell cakes.
If all these years after desegregation, churches can still decline to marry interracial couples, I think it stands to reason that churches will still be able to decline to marry gay couples if they want to. Of course, some churches won't want to decline to marry gay couples (i.e. Episcopalians are working on a proposal to take gender distinctions out of their wedding ceremonies), and they'll be allowed to marry gay couples if they want to.
Churches are allowed a lot of leeway on who they choose to allow to marry and who they don't. For example, I went to school with a guy who was raised, baptized, and confirmed Roman Catholic and went to mass frequently. His family even had priests over for dinner and the like sometimes. He got engaged to a Catholic woman of about the same age. The pastor at the local parish refused to marry them, citing psychological immaturity, which he was legally allowed to do even though they met all the legal requirements for marriage.
So, the couple in question decided to meet with a Methodist pastor. The Methodist pastor agreed to marry them (Though he didn't have to either), and they got married in a Methodist church building. If the Methodist pastor had declined, they could have checked with other ministers from other denominations, or just gone to a court house and gotten married by a justice of the peace. I don't think the church they grew up in recognized their wedding, which I thought was kind of a shame, but the point is that we already have plenty of precedent of churches being allowed to not marry people for religious or personal reasons even if they meet the legal requirements, and not having to recognize a civil marriage or a marriage in another church, denomination, or faith for their own religious purposes.
As far as people saying that those who oppose gay marriage won't be allowed to speak about it, I think those fears are unfounded. Why? Well, again, even though discrimination against racial minorities is now illegal, people are still free to express racist views, and fly Confederate flags. It's not really socially acceptable to be racist, but the constitution doesn't guarantee you the right to have your views socially accepted, it just gives you freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and freedom from discrimination in the workplace and in public places like restaurants and such.
So, if people's fear is that they might be looked down on for opposing gay marriage, then, yeah that might happen. So what? Are you guys advocating that the government protect you from people looking down on you?
I love the moral equivalence in this post. I am wondering where is gene for homosexuality? We know that skin colour is regulated by certain genes.
But the problem is that those groups who refused to marry "interracial" couples did so out spite for what the Bible teaches and were in step with what the world teaches.
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