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GeorgiaGuyinAtlanta said:It's time for mass deportations. Actually, deportation through attrition is the best idea. Many will go home if the supply of work dries up.
Let's me ask you a question. Where do you live? Given your sarcastic response, I'd venture that you're rather insulated from this massive problem.Weasel7711 said:No, screw that, lets just go for mass genocide...
(hopefully you have detected the sarcasm)
and you should. It is your duty.NHB_MMA said:Well, I certainly would voice my complaints to any company in my area I knew was accomadating this lawlessness.
You're comparing criminals with innocents? Of course, being from Northern Ireland, you don't quite have to deal with as massive a problem in the UK as we have here in the U.S.DiscoFrank said:yes, imagine supporting the alien, people will probably start supporting widows and orphans next.
Good ReplyNHB_MMA said:Widows and orphans are among the poor that need our compassion. Immigrants are among the poor that need our compassion. Illegal aliens are criminals that too often send money out of the country, effectively devaluing our already plummeting dollar. America has an aging population and we need young, productive immigrants coming into the country. But I am outraged that a group of people simply jump the border through Mexico rather than wait through the legal process like the Europeans, Africans, Asians, etc. that seek to live here. And that doesn't even begin to address the security issue of middle-eastern terrorists trying to sneak in disguised as Mexicans and South Americans.
To compare aiding those lawbreakers to caring for orphans and widows insults the work of the church. It's time for those churches that openly call for aiding these criminals to lose their tax-exempt status. Whatever happened to the principle of obeying the law so long as it does not violate God's laws?
Employers are a large part of the problem, and they should be investigated. They're breaking the law. The law needs to be enforced. Otherwise, the Aztlan movement will succeed.NHB_MMA said:True, it is their right to go along with the protests if they choose, but it makes me wonder how many of their employees are on the books, by the book. Those companies should be investigated, IMO. I am also tired of greedy employers luring these people over here and ultimately keeping Americans from getting a good living wage.
GeorgiaGuyinAtlanta said:Let's me ask you a question. Where do you live? Given your sarcastic response, I'd venture that you're rather insulated from this massive problem.
Weasel7711 said:I don't neccesarily see that as a problem. These people arent taking our high paying jobs, they take the jobs with the lowest pay because thats all they can get. They come from their (economically) crappy countries and look for better work. I see no problem in that.
That's what's shameful about it all. These illegal hordes will stop at nothing to break our laws, meanwhile saying "we didn't cross the border, the border crossed us". I didn't realize that the Treaty of Guadelupe-Hidalgo didn't nationalize the few thousand Mexicans who actually lived in the present-day southwestern U.S. Of course it nationalized them. Thus, there's no reason for them to say the border crossed them, as everyone was naturalized. It's also ridiculous, considering the fact that Mexico held claim to the land for less than twenty five years, while the United States took a desolate, unpopulated land, built up the infrastructure, while it settled the land, and brought it into prosperity. It's quite sad the propaganda espoused throughout Mexico regarding the American southwest.Monica02 said:Some of these illegal immigrant protestors do not even want to allow other voices to be heard. A few of them were arrested yesterday at a Congragational Church who had a Minuteman (or someone similar) scheduled to speak. They protested outside (quite legal) but some had to be removed from the assembly inside. You should have seen them screaming at the speaker. What arrogance and nerve to think that they have a right to break our laws and interrupt meetings.
Have you actually read an economists' report on the situation. They take jobs from low income Americans. Stop spouting the lies. They undercut the working classes of Americans.Weasel7711 said:Actually I live in Quincy, MA (7 miles south of Boston) in the mostly chinese immigrant section of town. Plus I have a relative that married into the family that was an illegal immigrant from Brazil before he married. So im not untouched by the problem although I don't neccesarily see that as a problem. These people arent taking our high paying jobs, they take the jobs with the lowest pay because thats all they can get. They come from their (economically) crappy countries and look for better work. I see no problem in that.
The time of immigration should be over. It is an old concept, particularly when considering the fact that we now have 300 million people. Given exponential rates of growth, and given a near-replacement level fertility rate of Americans, it is ridiculous to even consider more legal immigrants, particularly when Americans have to compete with them for jobs. Furthermore, as stated, given exponential rates of growth, it wouldn't be unheard to see a nation of 500 million within thirty years. That's not in America's best interests.GraceLikeRainFallsDown said:People are already given a fair chance to enter the country legally. I know friends that spent time and money to do it legally. With proper paperwork, they were allowed to work and go to school here until it was legal. They even purchased a home before their citizenship was finalized.
The people working and living here illegally are criminals. They have broken the law just as much as the person that steals from a store. They may not have "bad" intentions, but they are still breaking the law. In a way they do steal from our society. They get free medical when hard working Americans have to go into debt for the same treatment. They get a free education without paying taxes. They are draining our resources. Taking my money (thru tax dollars) illegally. I realize some say they do pay taxes, but I do not see how unless they have stolen a social security number.
You can have compassion for people and expect them to obey the laws of the land at the same time. We are not saying they as people are not welcome here. We are saying do it LEGALLY!
Illegal Aliens are criminals, as they have broken the law to get here. Are you redefining terms when you disagree?Agape_ said:This arguement is terrible in so many ways. On the one hand people are illegally immigrating into the country. On the other many of them are just trying to escape poverty and certain death which they would face by staying in their own country. The bible tells us we must offer aid to the alien in our midst so there is a clear voice that those aliens that want our help should recieve it. In this case then the American immigration system has failed. The american economy does need workers but they dont want to pay workers a fair wage so they hire illegal aliens, this perpetuates illegal immigration by creating traffic routes to these employers.
What must first happen is that laws should be enacted that force emplyoers to pay the same wages to illegal immigrants as they do to citizens which would destroy any incentive to hire them in the first place. Next the immigration system needs a reform to alow more people into a the country and stop creating so many roadblocks.
And to all those who are opposed to illegal immigrants labeling them as criminals, you need to visit some of the places these people are coming from and examine if you want your children growing up in disease infested slums. Why don't you have some compassion and if you are so opposed to illegal immigrants then why dont you shout to the government to send more aid to these countries to imrove their status of living or make donations to aid groups instead of complaining about something you dont understand.
I favor zero immigration. We already have too many here. We need to assimilate the ones who are refuting assimilation.NHB_MMA said:Ideally, but the reality is that there is a finite amount of people we can support and that is needed to support our government programs. I favor a fair cross-sectional, diverse flow of immigrants into the U.S., not 5 million immigrants per year, with 4 million of them coming from one country.
GeorgiaGuyinAtlanta said:The time of immigration should be over. . . . . . . . That's not in America's best interests.
Africa is also poor because of its people. God did not make all people excel in all walks of life. So why do you think that He'd make all societies the same?NHB_MMA said:Their own countries are failing them. For example, Africa is not pour because it lacks natural resources. It has timber, iron ore, oil, etc. probably to a greater degree than we do. Had the American forefathers landed in Africa rather than North America and planted the idea of a representative republic, I have to wonder if "America" would not be even more technologically advanced than today. Africa is poor because the continent is full of tyrannical dictators that steal from the people. And I do agree the greedy employers bare a large amount of the responsibility and it's time to see some arrests.
Agreed, except they should pay an additional fine for hiring someone without the proper documentation. I do favor less hurdles in the immigration process, particularly for skilled workers and provided that we do enforce very strict regulations on individuals attempting to immigrate from states on the terror list.
Again, why are they disease infested slums? Because the rulers have taken everything for themselves and do not allow a real free market system in which individuals can better themselves.
The idea that sending more aide to such situations would be helpful is severely misguided. What needs to be done is for our government to cut off all aide and trade until such nations honor basic human rights that would help its people flourish. The last thing I'm in favor of is more deficit spending by sending more aide to nations where it will just be used by some warlord and his militia.
Then watch America go down in flames all for the sake of trying to seem "humanitarian".GraceLikeRainFallsDown said:Though I understand your logic, they will never close the borders. It just will never happen. America prides itself as a "melting pot" built by immigrants. America will never have the backbone to close the borders. Politicians have to play politics and closed borders are not in their rule book.
Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah. Don't you get it through your head that some people groups build more advanced civilizations than others, as they have a higher intellectual capacity for such?Agape_ said:Your wrong most third world countries are like this because America and other western nations exploited them for natural resources and planted dictators that could be controlled by the american government. Trade systems that the US enforces forces many countries to export over 70% of its crop and minerals with the profits going to the heads of large multinational corporations or to the corrupt governments working with them. To blame the countries that illegal immigrants are coming from completly disregards the responsibility of the US for making the country what it is.
California is going the way of the third world.GraceLikeRainFallsDown said:I have lived in Connecticut and California. The East Coast does not see the problem that is seen in California.
It is not just about hard labor jobs that Americans do not want. (or so they argue) It is also about the drain on our resources. The huge problems at the public schools and hospitals. The problems on the roads in California also. Their are so many people without insurance or a drivers license that the rest of us who do things within the system end up having to pay for the others. I have a friend that teaches in the public school in California and she has to read to the kids in Spanish during reading time. Not English. It slows down the entire class. Let's not forget about the security issue either.
This issue is not about just job availability. It is much bigger than that. In Connecticut I am sure there are illegals from various countries, but it is almost unnoticeable. In California you not only notice, you can't avoid it.
Another issue being ignored by many is that the illegal worker does not have the same protection on the job as legal workers. It puts them in unsafe work environments. I live in a farm area of California and workers die in the fields. It is very sad. If they are illegals, their family has no recourse.
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