There shall not be left here one stone upon another...

BrokenCredit said:

Maybe it is the generation of evil which is this entire world's history.

Luk 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.

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hehe, not a very good dating reference then!

However it is also clear that in your quote Jesus talked about that generation that would see Messiah crucified. (sign of jonah) and he talked specifically about those jews that lived there and then and wanted to see signs. The context reveals this even clearer.

Jesus talked about the destruction of the temple and said this generaton would see it. That actually happened, since it only was about 40 years later so many of the ppl was still alive. The apostles themself was certianly still alive, but was killed under the Nero'ian persections (except John that went on living another 30 years. It makes sense that "this generation" would see it, because it was within that generation Jesus came and died.
The jugdement over Jerusalem would bee seen by" those who pierced him" and they would mourn. All trough the chapters of acts, it is the first century jews, that was alive when Jesus got killed, that is accused of killing their own Messiah. THe judgement come over that generation, but it would be horrible if God today would send a worse judgement over Israel beacuse they got Messiah killed back then. Premill Thomas Ice writes that scriptures say that a third of ISrael willl be killed in a coming holocaus, and it will happend because they killed the messiah. We need to get this thing right guys, because otherwise er are preaching and proclaiming a frankenstin God that killes millions of innocent ppl for deeds that was done 2000 years ago.

Jesus told us in Matt 23 who "this generation" who sees the beginning of the wars, famines, plagues, and desolation of the temple/Jerusalem/Israel was.

Mat 23:34Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and [some] of them ye shall kill and crucify; and [some] of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute [them] from city to city:

Mat 23:35That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

Mat 23:36Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Mat 23:37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not!

Mat 23:38Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.



Eze 14:21"For this is what the Sovereign LORD says: How much worse will it be when I send against Jerusalem my four dreadful judgments--sword and famine and wild beasts and plague--to kill its men and their animals!


SEALS 1-4!

Just as Jesus predicted, all of that came upon that generation and the four seals are still "riding", the "house" is still desolate to this very day!

SEALS 1-4!

Just as Jesus predicted, all of that came upon that generation and the four seals are still "riding", the "house" is still desolate to this very day!

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So when do ya expect it to be rebuilt again?

Reve 19:3 And a second-time they have declared "allelouia and the Smoke of Her is ascending into the Ages of the Ages".

LittleLambofJesus said:

.......The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins

Before their final demolition, however, Titus took a survey of the city and its fortifications ; and, while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF. "Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses, it would have been absolutely impossible to have taken them ; for what could men, and the force of engines, have done against such towers as these ?"

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Yes this was fulfillment of the prophesy where God said he would shorten the time or there would be no one left alive in the city. The Romans were astounded that the Jews had given up as they could have stayed there who knows how long - months? A year?

Larry

Gary777 said:

I can give you hundreds of quotes from jewish sources for this, but this is not a hidden truth lots of jewish rabbinic articles wil proove this too you trough a simple google search.

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As I said - the Jews have their own literature and proofs not usually based on any outside sources like Josephus. These same "Jewish Sources" you mention also say that Jesus was a Sorcerer and did magic and mislead Israel. How confident are you in this statement? Do you think this came from the New Testament - which was mostly an eyewitness account?

Larry

This subject is confused by the Jewish political bias of our day. It is clear when you look at the history of Jerusalem and the Temple. I wrote this mostly from memory over the last two days.

A brief history of Jerusalem and the Temple.

A long time ago (in the post flood era - 2318BC) there was a huge crescent shaped hill in the land of Moriah among the many hills or mountains in this land. The two points of the crescent shaped hill pointed east. The hill was long and had a depression in the middle. The upper hill had on its side a spring. The steep sides of the southern end of the hill was a natural fortification. This was an ideal site for protection from enemies and marauders. The first requirements for building a city in those days was to have protection and an adequate water supply and access to it in case of a siege by an enemy. This location was ideal.

The first time we see this place in Bible history was in the days of Abraham (1878BC) when the King of the city that was built on this hill came out to meet Abraham - his name was Melchezidek and the city back then was called Jebus. I don’t know when this city became occupied by the Jebusites, Jebus was also called Jeru-Salem. Salem was the name of the Cannanite god of the morning? (or twilight).

Hundreds of years later King David (985BC) conquered this Fortified Jebusite city by entering through the water tunnels going to the spring on the northern hill. He captured the city and refortified it with stronger walls and filled in part of the valley (Millo) between the two hills. He built up the city along with a palace and it became known as the city of David. The name migrated in meaning to the city of peace (Jeru - shalom).

God would not allow David to build him a temple because of all the blood he had shed. This task fell to his son Solomon. Solomon built the Temple on the site that was purchased by David from Araunah, who used it for a threshing floor. (986BC) This site was on top of the northern part of the hill or mountain we have been discussing. So the Temple of Solomon was located just North of the City of David. Solomon filled in completely the partial valley between the two hills. Now it was just one single hill.

In the time of the war with Antiochus and his descendants, the Syrians had conquered the City of David and were using the fortress to stage raids against the Jews and the Temple. This went on for about 20 years and finally one, Simon the Hasmonian, finally routed the Syrians (second century BC) and retook the city of David. However this was such a problem for them that Simon convinced the people to cut the southern mountain fortress (City of David) down to bedrock, so it could never be used against them as it had used by the Syrians. It took the people 3 years of work day and night to literally eliminate the old city of David to nothingness.

Many of the buildings of the original City of David were moved to the adjacent hill to the west of the now destroyed city of David and this area is what was later again called “The city of David” - but David never lived there. The city of David, which was the original “Mt Zion” was totally destroyed. The Title of “Mt Zion” moved to the upper hill to the north where the temple was located. The Temple was built over the Spring on the north side - the Gihon Spring. The term "Zion" means citadel and was in use by the Jebusites.

Simon the Hasmonian was a great builder and in his projects of building he got crosswise with the Essenes who refer to him in their (Dead Sea) Temple Scroll as the “Wicked Priest.” They did not approve of what he was doing. He built another fortress to replace the City of David to the north of the Temple area and it was called in his day “The Baris.” Later, the Baris was enlarged and upgraded by Herod in his day and was renamed “Fort Antonia” in honor of Mark Anthony.

There is historical evidence that Simon replaced the Temple that was built by Solomon and rebuilt by Ezra et al. Although the Temple was initially cleansed and restored - This Temple was so polluted by Antiochus that they decided to do away with it. Simon rebuilt it and doubled its size. Solomon built it 150 feet wide originally and Simon doubled the width to 300 feet wide and 500 feet long. I’m guessing that the reason for this was that so they could build the new Temple along side of the old and then would tear down the old after the new Temple was constructed. Herod replaced Simon’s temple and redoubled it yet again to 600 feet wide and 600 feet long. The overall height of the south east corner was also 600 feet high down to bedrock, which was 150 feet underground: it was a cube.

So what do we end up with? The old Jebusite fortress or City of David to the south of the Temple was destroyed and the earth was totally removed down to the bedrock. It was now called “The lower city.” Next to the north was the Temple - still remaining on the hill often referred to as Mt Moriah. Each time the Temple was expanded it was expanded toward the north. The only thing that remained from Solomon’s day was the structure on the Temple mount to the south called “Solomon’s Porch.” Josephus tells us that there was a 600 foot long double roadway on the west end that connected Fort Antonia to the Temple. This gave the Roman soldiers quick access to the Temple. So between the Temple and Fort Antonia there was also a matching 600 foot courtyard. In the modern Jewish version there is no room for this 600 foot roadway as they have put a very tiny “Fort Antonia” in direct contact on the north of the real Fort Antonia, which they insist on calling “The Temple Mount” - not so by any means. The real Fort Antonia billeted a legion of troops around 6,000 in number. In permanent Roman camps the population often doubled with all of the auxiliaries that were hired by the military. The Fort Antonia that the Jews picture could not hold any where near this number of troops not to mention the auxiliaries.

So - where was the Temple? Where it has always been throughout history - it was on the Northern hill of the crescent over the Gihon Spring. Find the Gihon Spring and you have found the Temple location. The Temple and the huge massive Temple Mount was totally destroyed down to the last stone - just like Jesus said it would be. What remains? Just the Baris/Fort Antonia which was to the north of the Temple by a space of 600 feet. So measure 600 feet from the existing southern wall of the real Fort Antonia today and then measure another 600 feet and that is where the Temple sat in history.

If the Jews of today would accept the many facts of history they would realize the ancient Temple’s true location; and the world wide zealots who need to rebuild the Temple because their eschatology depends on it - could do so tomorrow morning by just moving a highway and some other things south of the Fortress Antonia as it is today. But the untruths that they insist on for political reasons are frustrating their belief system. The so called “Temple Mount” (the real Fortress Antonia) in Jesus day was a hated and despised structure and today Fort Antonia is in the hands of the enemies of Israel - the Muslims. Personally, I see this as God’s way of frustrating the Zealots’ ambitions and herding them over to the foot of the cross. I don’t think that God is directing anyone back to the Old Covenant. The entire book of Hebrews in the NT is directed to the Messianic Christians who were returning back into Judaism in the face of persecution from Nero. There is no going back either for the Christian or non Christian Jews of Today. There is only the Cross of Christ.

Larry

There is no going back either for the Christian or non Christian Jews of Today. There is only the Cross of Christ.

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http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7306890&highlight=lazarus

Matthew 3:9 "And no ye should be thinking to say in yourselves 'a father we are having, the Abraham'. For I am say unto ye, that is able the God out of the stones, these, to raise-up children to the Abraham.

Luke 16:26 And upon all of these between us and ye a chasm great hath been established so that those willing to cross-over hence toward ye no may be able, neither thence toward us may be ferrying