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With your opinion and $3.90 I can get a Venti latte most anywhere.
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It is the Elect that receive immortality as a conditional gift from God. The condemned do not obtain that gift.
Jesus is even kind enough to shorten the days of the Wrath because of usIt is the Elect that receive immortality as a conditional gift from God. The condemned do not obtain that gift.
It is interesting to note that everything I say is my opinion, while everything you say is a matter of fact. If our spirits are already immortal, then why would God offer immortality as a gift?
With your opinion and $3.90 I can get a Venti latte most anywhere.
It is interesting to note that everything I say is my opinion, while everything you say is a matter of fact. If our spirits are already immortal, then why would God offer immortality as a gift?
And the Serpent said to Eve: "You surly will not die."
I provide evidence, you don't! Seems they already had immortality. God told them in the day that you eat of the fruit "you will surely, not surly, die." They ate of the fruit but did not cease to exist.
I see, my scripture does not count, but your commentary does.
If you look around you will find much, much more that commentary. I think I posted 28 passages spoken by Jesus addressing the eternal, unending punishment of the unrighteous, compared to your one out-of-context vs. Did Adam and Eve "surely die", cease to exist, the day they ate of the fruit?
At one time they meant the same thing....The words grave and hell are very different words, they do not mean the same thing.
Der Alter said:If you look around you will find much, much more that commentary. I think I posted 28 passages spoken by Jesus addressing the eternal, unending punishment of the unrighteous, compared to your one out-of-context vs. Did Adam and Eve "surely die", cease to exist, the day they ate of the fruit?
When their time came they died.
At one time they meant the same thing....
Hell is an old English word that meant to cover up. Farmers used to cover up potatoes in a hole in the ground, which they called hell.
Over time through misinterpretation the word has come to mean something else.
Only 50 years ago the word "Gay" meant to be happy and carefree. Today it means something entirely different due to misrepresentation.
You ignored most of my post. And the scripture you alluded to does not say "When their time came they died."
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.The arguments against me have been that death means the person ceases to exist. As you have noted Adam and Eve did NOT cease to exist in the day that they ate of the fruit.
Der Alter said:You ignored most of my post. And the scripture you alluded to does not say "When their time came they died."
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.The arguments against me have been that death means the person ceases to exist. As you have noted Adam and Eve did NOT cease to exist in the day that they ate of the fruit.
I was not quoting scripture, just stating a fact.
Saying you were stating fact does not make it so. The fact is, the only facts which matter concerning scriptural truth is what scripture says. And God speaking in scripture told Adam and Eve that in they day they eat of the fruit "dying you will die."
There is no hell. The words in scripture were not correctly translated into English. The joining of the Pagan religion about hell is a Catholic invention.See Holman Bible Dictionary at: HELL - Holman Bible Dictionary on StudyLight.org
The number of times "Hell" appears the in text of English Bible Translations.
Bible Translations
Old Testament
New Testament
Total
"Authorized" King James Version
31
23
54
New King James Version
19
13
32
American Standard Version
0
13
13
New American Standard Bible
0
13
13
Revised Standard Version
0
12
12
New Revised Standard Version
0
12
12
Revised English Bible
0
13
13
New Living Translation
0
13
13
Amplified
0
13
13
New International Version (best-selling English Bible)
0
14
14
Darby
0
12
12
New Century Version
0
12
12
Wesley's New Testament (1755)
0
0
Scarlett's N.T. (1798)
0
0
The New Testament in Greek and English (Kneeland, 1823)
0
0
Young's Literal Translation (1891)
0
0
0
Twentieth Century New Testament (1900)
0
0
Rotherham's Emphasized Bible (reprinted, 1902)
0
0
0
Fenton's Holy Bible in Modern English (1903)
0
0
0
Weymouth's New Testament in Modern Speech (1903)
0
0
Jewish Publication Society Bible Old Testament (1917)
0
0
Panin's Numeric English New Testament (1914)
0
0
The People's New Covenant (Overbury, 1925)
0
0
Hanson's New Covenant (1884)
0
0
Western N.T. (1926)
0
0
NT of our Lord and Savior Anointed (Tomanek, 1958)
0
0
Concordant Literal NT (1983)
0
0
The N.T., A Translation (Clementson, 1938)
0
0
Emphatic Diaglott, Greek/English Interlinear (Wilson, 1942)
0
0
New American Bible (1970)
0
0
0
Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible (1976)
0
0
0
Tanakh, The Holy Scriptures, Old Testament (1985)
0
0
The New Testament, A New Translation (Greber, 1980)
0
0
Christian Bible (1991)
0
0
0
World English Bible (in progress)
0
0
0
Original Bible Project (Dr. James Tabor, still in translation)
0
0
0
Zondervan Parallel N.T. in Greek and English (1975)
0
0
Int. NASB-NIV Parallel N.T. in Greek and English (1993)
0
0
It was the bias of the translators that have established it in scripture.
The Hebrew word Sheol Should have been translated as grave.
The Angle Saxon word hel meaning to bury. It is more than a mistranslation it a premeditated deliberate assault on scripture to introduce the Teutonic pagan word.
Tar-ta-rus (tart rs) [[ Gr Tartaros ]] Gr. Myth. 1 an infernal abyss below Hades, where Zeus hurls the rebel Titans, later a place of punishment for the demons and devils not people. (mentioned only once in the Bible)
Ha-des (hadez) [[Gr Haides ]] 1 Gr. Myth. a) the home of the dead, beneath the earth b) the god of the underworld 2 Bible the state or resting place of the dead: name used in some modern translations of the New Testament
She-ol (eol) [[Heb shaal , to dig]] a place in the depths of the earth conceived of as the dwelling of the dead Note: translated in KJV about half of scriptures as hell, the other half as grave
Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell (Gehenna) fire.
Gehenna is the garbage dump outside the city of Jerusalem.
It is true that our bodies return to the dust, and our spirits go to live with the Father. But what about the condemed? Do they also (go or return) to live with our Father. Or are they cut off from the living? It is true that God will bring the condemed back to life, as a part of their punishment. The word "fire" and other words like it, are often used parabolically to mean judgement. We do not worship a God who is without mercy or who tortures people for all eternity.
John 5.
28. "Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29. and come outthose who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.
And that is why Jesus said that both body and spirit could be destroyed in gehenna.
The concept of Hell is part of the Pagan religion. In the K.J.V. of the Old Testament the Hebrew word sheol means "grave." Also other words are not translated, but the interpretation "Hell" is given. Thats why in the N.I.V. you dont see the word Hell in the Old testament. The reason you see the word Hell in the new testament, is because it was introduced into scripture by the Catholic Church. However, there is death of the body and spirit. Our bodies are mortal, and our spirits are mortal. And if God never called us back into being, we would never live again.
The INTERPRETATION "hades or gehenna" is in the K.J.V. You will not find the word "hades" in the N.I.V. Old Testament, however you will find the word "hades" in the N.I.V. New Testament as an INTERPRETATION for "grave."
[SIZE=-1]Can Hades be thrown into Hell?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]The word "day" also means epoch of time.[/SIZE]
No evidence! But I'm sure that it what it meant to Adam and Eve. Not!
Can the demon of hades be thrown into the LOF? I think that this is now the 3d time I have responded to this question.
Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.The angel of death and the demon of hell/hades are cast into the LOF, and their power to kill ended. The angel of death is first mentioned in Exodus the night before the Israelites escaped from Egypt, and again in Ezekiel 9
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
I think I give you more credit then I should. Is the Lake of fire hell, or not?
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