Theology in 5 minutes or less

[Sisof8]

Hey Guys,

Ok... wow... I haven't done this before, so I am hoping I am allowed. I spend almost all of my time on the OBOB Catholic forum, but I need some help...

I am planning to convert to Catholicism and my best friend (who is Catholic) things that I did not give Orthodoxy a chance. She's probably right... I couldnt find any easily acessible or understand info on EO, so I just didnt' think about it a lot...

So...

What are the main differences? I know y'all believe in The Real Presence of The Eucharist (or whatever you call it), saints, etc... What is different? Basically... in comparing the two Churches why would you say I choose EO over Catholicism?

If this isn't allowed I am really sorry.

In Christ,
Didi

 

[kamikat]

Please read this article http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/reading/ortho_cath.html
These are some basics, but it's much more than that. I was raised Catholic, but Orthodoxy touches my soul in a way that I never felt in the Catholic church.
kamikat

 

[Knee V]

Sisof8, I was EXACTLY in your shoes not too long ago. I was going through RCIA and preparing for confirmation. But I had never given Orthodoxy a chance. I will not try to convert you. Whatever you do I am sure you will have very good reasons for.

One of the differences is how we view the nature of bishops, as well as how we view the church as a whole (both of which tie into our view of the bishop of Rome). As opposed to a "universal church" mentality, which has all the local churches as part of a larger whole, with the bishop of Rome being at the "head" (and no, I am not accusing of putting another at the Head besides Christ), we believe that where the bishop is, there is the catholic church. If there is a bishop and flock proclaiming the faith, then THAT is the Catholic church. Similar to the trinitarian nature of God, 1+1+1+1+1+1+...+1=1 (for the church, that is). That is the "eucharistic" view of the church.

We also have the Nicene Creed without the Filioque clause (and the Son). We proclaim, "And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life, who proceeds from the Father. Who with the Father and Son is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets".

Those are a couple big ones (that is the sole cause of the original schism, however more differences have crept in over the centuries). That is all I have for now.

 

[Gnisios]

You should give Orthodoxy a chance. I believe you'll find the most rich, accurate, and wonderful christian tradition.

Orthodoxy is based on experience and the best way to learn more about it is to "come and see".

May God bless you as you seek His will.

 

[Sisof8]

Thanks very much I am reading it!

 

[InnerPhyre]

Why not visit an Orthodox church one sunday for Divine Liturgy? No better way to learn about Orthodoxy than by experiencing it. I believe that seeing it first hand is the only way to truly understand what we do and who we are. And we're generally a very welcoming bunch

 

[Eusebios]

Sisof8,
Hello and welcome to TAW
Some of the differences between EO AND RCC HAVE BEEN LAID OUT HERE, BUT AS SOMEONE ELSE SAID, THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR EXPERINCING THE DIVINE SERVICES. (darn caps lock!).Here is a link to OCA Parishes in Va.,perhaps there is one near you. If not, perhaps there is a Greek or Antiochian parish.. Michael the Iconographer is one of our regular members here who grew up RC and even went to seminary. He may be of more help than most anyone here in expounding the differences in terms of doctrine.
In Xp,
Eusebios.

 

[InnerPhyre]

I was also Catholic for 24 years and became Orthodox last Christmas. I'm still new to the faith, so I might not be the best choice to discuss deep theology with, but if you want to talk about experiences in both churches, feel free to PM me.

 

[eoe]

Put on some comfortable shoes and attend the Divine Liturgy at a parish near you. There is no substitute for actually witnessing it for yourself.

The schism of course is one place that we differ. We see that one see left the other 4 instead of 4 consipiring against and leaving the one.

Some differences in the two are going to be centered on innovations that the Roman church has added to the faith since the schism:

Puragatory, Limbo, Indulgences, the view on papal primacy.

Other differences are going to be due to subtle but profound changes in doctrine that started earlier and were never corrected due to the language barrier between Rome and the other 4 sees. Some of this started with Augustine and some in other places. In western (Roman + protestant) theology God is subject to necessity and exhibits other characteristics that all add up to "angry god" theology. This simply does not exist in the East.

The Eastern Church does not mind calling something a mystery and will do so instead of making up a weak explaination of something.

The Mysticism of the two churches is quite different. Here is an article that illustrates the differences.

 

[Happy Orthodox]

There are great differences between the doctrines of the RC and EO! And they start with the doctrines about doctrines! In the Orthodox Church, you live the doctrine, you practice it.

Orthodox Church holds the original beliefs that the Apostles brought to the people. We guard them as pure truth, and we do not add to or take away from them anything by any excuse. The Roman Church, however, introduced many changes and innovations, which got to the point of the very understanding of God. So, the differences became quite profound. The Orthodox Church looks at those changes that the RC made to the pure truth as erroneous and heretical. And sinse the RC has been excommunicated from the Church, it is not even in the Body of Christ.

See, before the Schism there was one Church, the continuing Church of the Apostles. There were five Patriarchs of equal authority. One of them was "first among equals," and that was the Patriarch of Rome. However, he didn't have absolute power over the entire Church, Christ was the sole Head of the Church. And in this form, the Church represented the Trinity: God is three in Persons Who are equal to each other. And the Church Patriarchs who were also equal to each other. But the Patriarch of Rome was first among them just because he was the Bishop of the Capital of the Roman Empire. But over the years something happened to the RC, and their Bishop started claiming authority over the entire Church. The rest of the Church tolerated it for some time, and then, when the Pope excommunicated the rest of the Church because it failed to recognize his (self-proclaimed) authority, the Church excommunicated the Roman part of the Church in turn. So, the Roman Church was just a part of the Church, and there were total five parts. The four parts remained with the original teaching, and the Roman part was led astray. This is Orthodox view.

We were told by the Apostles to "hold fast to the traditions" that they taught us, and by Christ to worship in spirit and truth. So, we believe, they did not follow these commandments. As the result of this we have a massive rejection of the authority of the Roman Church by Protestants who felt that the Church (which claimed to be the Church that Christ established but wasn't) fell into error. There wasn't such movement to protest against the Eastern Teaching. This should tell you something, too.

Well, this post reveals my anti-Catholic attitude. If this bothers anyone, forgive me. But this is how I feel.

 

[Akathist]

I wanted to emphasized what has been said. You can not really see the differences without going and seeing a Divine Liturgy.

I was signed up for RCIA when someone suggested I look at the Orthodox Church. At the time my only reason for looking away from the Catholic church was about my husband having been married before and divorced and the Catholic Church saying unless he had an annulment I could not receive the Eucharist. My husband would have never agreed to an annulment from his first wife.

I was also not very comfortable with the idea of Indulgances. I was willing to "over look" that because all my life I had attended churches where there was something I didn't agree with and I had learned to just take the good and leave the rest ... and ignore the rest...

But I needed the Real Presence. I was in a bad shape emotionally and spiritually and I felt that Christ in the Real Presence of the Eucharist was the ONLY thing that would heal me. (I still feel that it heals me.)

I came to CF and read about Eastern Orthdoxy here in the Ancient Way and the links members gave me. And the links the links gave me.

Then I visited an Orthodox Church. I went first on a Saturday night because the Priest I called suggested that I come and meet with him before service and he would talk about the church. Then I could stay for the Saturday Vesper Service and come back on Sunday for the Service then.

When I walked into the Church I felt such a peace. The service was so reverent and respectful and real awe was shown to Christ even greater than in the Catholic Church (the ones I visited, I don't claim this is true for all of the Catholic Churches). The music was so different. It wasn't songs or hymns, it was REALLY prayers. It was so beautiful.

The next day for Divine Liturgy, I was absolutely sure that it was the Orthodox Church I had always been looking for.

(And my husband does not need an annulment... the Orthdox Chruch discourages divorce but does not require annulments.)

And since "Purgatory" is not a part of the Orthodox Church, "Indulgances" are not a a part of it too.

I still like the Rosary and most Orthodox do not say the Rosary. But we have something like it. And wonderful prayers asking for the intervention of the Theotokos (The birthgiver of God... we do sometimes call her Mary but mostly Theotokos.)

I have found a richness in Orthodoxy that I never found as a Protestant. And I have no regrets about the conversion.

 

[kamikat]

Didi, I just to echo the others who have recommended going to a Divine Liturgy service. Are you currently attending an English Mass or a Latin Mass? I grew up in the Novus Ordo English Mass and I have visited churches all over the States. NOTHING compares to Divine Liturgy. I've been to the NO in Latin with all the "bells and smells". I've been to TLM. NOTHING makes my soul soar like the DL.
kamikat

 

[Sisof8]

I just want to say I really appreciate all y'all are saying. I should visit an Orthodox Church in my area. It's just hard because I do not drive and so I have to figure out a bus etc and sometimes that's hard on weekends.

 

[Theophorus]

A big one for me is that Orthodox infants and children receive communion.

 

[Globalnomad]

Guys, can someone explain to Sisof8 the Orthodox concept of purification? She asked about Purgatory on the Catholic thread, but it would really be best to compare the two. (And I would be interested to read it, too.) Thanks!

 

[Knee V]

From my understanding (and someone please correct me), the problem we have is not so much with purgatory, but with the DOGMA of purgatory. Is purgatory (or at least the essence of purgatory) a possiblity? Sure. It's possible. But we will not go so far as to make a dogmatic statement about the particularities of such things, since their details have not been revealed.

 

[eoe]

I just want to say I really appreciate all y'all are saying. I should visit an Orthodox Church in my area. It's just hard because I do not drive and so I have to figure out a bus etc and sometimes that's hard on weekends.

Call the priest at the parish nearest you. He might just surprise you and tell you that someone is in your area and willing to give you a ride.

 

[Globalnomad]

From my understanding (and someone please correct me), the problem we have is not so much with purgatory, but with the DOGMA of purgatory. Is purgatory (or at least the essence of purgatory) a possiblity? Sure. It's possible. But we will not go so far as to make a dogmatic statement about the particularities of such things, since their details have not been revealed.

Mmmmm.... I am not sure we have ever made a dogmatic statement about the particularities... let me check on OBOB.

And your concept of purification?

Peace!

 

[Globalnomad]

OK, we've discussed it on OBOB. It is as I suspected... the most precise wording of the dogma (at the Council of Trent) is simply that "there is a Purgatory" and that those souls can benefit from our prayers - no further details attached. Our recently-revised Catechism speaks of it as a state, not a place. All the rest is just custom and popular piety.

How does this compare with your beliefs about purification? And what about your concept of Toll-Houses?

 

[Xpycoctomos]

To avoud the risk of this thread turing into a debate on Purgatory (which I realize that you, Globalnomad, are NOT looking for), if you could perhaps offer a link to a relevant thread in OBOB that talks about Purgatory and what the doctrine specifies and does NOT specify, that would be fantastic. I mean, feel free to point out what's wrong with what we claim the RC might teach (becaus those are just a matter of facts) but liniing a thread might be more helpful to people like myself who are interested in delving into the details.

I will say that I agree at least with the general idea behind Knee-v's last post. It seems to me too that many Orthodox will say that it isn't as much a problem with the details that the RC teaches on an idea such as purgatory but rather with the fact that it says that a good Catholic MUST believe in these certain details (which Globalnamad is checking up on)... some details that many if not most Orthodox would disagree with.

To be fair, there are many Orthodox (actually, from past threads I would guess that MOST TAWers) who say that some of the specifics the RC holds as doctrine are actually false and specifically UNorthodox. Personally, I remember taht when I found out what the RC DEMANDS a believer belive I didn't think anything was too wrong with the details, I just thought it was wrong that the RC should say that one MUST believe this or that. But that's me.

John

PS: Re the OP: I'm glad you are considering attending a DL. Find out which one's are in your area and let us know the jurisdictions. First, so we can let you know if it is a REAL Orthodox Church (there are, unfortunately alot of imposters) and secondly so we can give you hints as to which Churches might be a little more "visitor friendly". Unfortunately some Parishes still suffer from a bit of the "ethnic club" mentality and can feel a bit cold upon one's first visit while other parishes are more mindful of seekers/inquirers. Also, you may just want to call over first to find out what time the Liturgy starts (or vespers on Saturday evenings are a GREAT intro to Orthdoox worship because they are shorter and usually less intinmidating -less people) and to make sure that the Liturgy is fully (or mostly) in English. That was a long PS... phew! God bless!