Theistic Evolution - an Oxymoron.

[Crusadar]

From a strictly philosophical point of view there is nothing that says that the slow process required by evolution was not the creative method use by God, as long as we do not attribute the entire process to chance coupled with natural selection. However evolution at its core not only postulates that chance and natural selection alone resulted in all life that we know it, it rather demands it.

With that being said, since theistic evolutionists are very adamant in their belief that God created via evolutionary methods, it has come down to the question of whether or not God would use such a process as evolution. Using only what scripture tells us about the nature of God, can one justify why God would use evolution? Remember now only scripture, not concocted theories to cram God into a process that is neither mentioned nor supported by His own word.

To begin lets look into scripture for what it says about the nature and character of God and how logically God cannot fit into the evolutionary mold that men have made for Him.

Keeping in mind however that by God, we mean an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent and infinite being who is beyond all our imagination. It then becomes erroneous for us to limit our understanding of God to only that which we can understand and perceive to be of reality since He is beyond our comprehension.

It still is necessary though that we embark on an understanding of such a being by the very thing He has instilled in us in that our logic in a way reflects a very minute part of God’s own infinite logic – in that we are capable of thinking and reasoning as He is. And thus in order to get a picture of what God’s character is like we must associate with Him terms that have meaning for us.

For if we know a person’s character we can make a fairly accurate guess at the methods that he would use to solve a particular problem. Since an individual’s character determines their methods, what does scripture reveal to us about God’s character and how He could have used a method such as evolution - which is against everything that God stands for.

In Matthew chapter 5 we are given a very clear character description of God, in that since Christ claims that if we have seen Him we have seen the Father – meaning that they are the same in character.

“Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.” Matthew 5:3

Is it just my understanding or does it reflect God’s character in that those who are poor in spirit are those who will inherit the kingdom of heaven. And according to what exists within the evolutionary struggle for the survival of the fittest, where is this notion of the poor in spirit? For if one is poor in spirit one becomes food for the spirited! So why does the Word of God teach what is opposite of His creative process – unless it is not His creative process.

Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. Matthew 5:5

What is this? The meek shall inherit the earth, but that is not what is seen in the preferred method of creation for theistic evolutionists is it? The meek does not inherit anything, rather they become trophies for the dominant. Isn’t it strange that a Creator who teaches us to be meek would use a creative process that denies His own character of humility - even unto death? Did Christ really mean what He said then about being meek and poor in spirit? But according to evolutionary theory this is not the case! How can God the creator who teaches us to be meek use a creative process which violates His very character of meekness?

Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. Matthew 5:7

Now is there such a thing as mercy in the struggle of life? For if there is then evolution would cease to occur!

Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

And what of lovers of peace, what becomes of them but martyrs, where their continued struggle pervades all aspects of life from the lowest of living organisms to the highest – man himself.

And so to justify the evolution as the preferred method of creation by God, invalidates the very character of the one whose mouth the above words came from.

And I say fall on your knees before God, and pray that we may rid ourselves of the lie of evolution - before it is too late.

 

[notto]

Yet you would rather call God a liar and a deciever by purposly leaving evidence for us in the creation that directly contradicts your interpretation of scripture. That does fit well with MY understanding of the nature of God.

Young earth creationism was falsified by Christians a long time ago. There is no reason to revisit falsified theories in science.

Yours is simply an appeal to emotion because the science has run out on creationism. You woukd rather treat God as a deceiver instead of understanding that your interpretation of scriptures could be incorrect.

The Creation doesn't lie. Interpretation of scripture is what needs to be looked at if what we find in the creation doesn't match it.

(And the poor in spirit line really made me laugh. Can you show us how spirit relates to reproductive survivability? This is ALL evolution discusses. There is no Higher or Lower form, only forms that survive).

Stating that there is no mercy is funny because natural instincts between a mother, family, etc are directly beneficial to the survival of a species. Evolution has little to do with the survival of an individual, but only relates to a species.

You have combined a strawman of evolution with an appeal to ignorance and guilt all wrapped up in your own misunderstanding of what the theory of evolution really says.

 

[Ark Guy]

Crusader...one point the Theo-Evos keep forgetting is that the bible says Eve was formed from Adams side (rib). This IS NOT evolution.

If evolution occucured then this verse would not be in the bible.

 

[Vance]

If you looked only at God's written Word, and ignored his Creation as an assistance in understanding that written Word, you would, without the shadow of a doubt, still be a Geocentrist.

So, obviously, you DON'T just look at the written Word, you DO consider the evidence of His Creation to inform your interpretation to some degree.
So, that "exclusively the written Word" approach obviously won't work.

 

[notto]

Crusader...one point the Theo-Evos keep forgetting is that the bible says Eve was formed from Adams side (rib). This IS NOT evolution.

If evolution occucured then this verse would not be in the bible.

If the creation story is a parable about the truth of God as creator, why wouldn't that be in the bible? If the creation story wasn't a parable, I don't see why Adam and Eve would be named Adam and Eve at all

(I also don't understand why there would be two separate creation stories with contradictions and omissions in each in the bible either if it was God's dictated word on how God created. Why not just plainly state it in one account?).

 

[Zoot]

deleted by zoot

 

[Crusadar]

notto said: Yours is simply an appeal to emotion because the science has run out on creationism. You woukd rather treat God as a deceiver instead of understanding that your interpretation of scriptures could be incorrect.

And so your priority is man before God. That figures, for have you not read:

"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." Matthew 24:35

And evolution is very much word of man. For I have since realize that the word of God it truth for it is what is able to change us - not your pontifications of what scripture does not say God to be.

 

[Zoot]

deleted by zoot

 

[notto]

And so your priority is man before God. That figures, for have you not read:


And evolution is very much word of man. For I have since realize that the word of God it truth for it is what is able to change us - not your pontifications of what scripture does not say God to be.

Likewise. You ignore the very creation your interpretation of the scriptures supposedly describes. You deny the creation of God and what it tells us about its creator all together. (While presenting pontifications about a scientific theory you seem to have a very feeble grasp on or else you are deliberately telling falshoods about it).

 

[Crusadar]

And, frankly, the Beatitudes are obviously a matter of "do what I say, not what I do."

So God is a hypocrite then, right?

 

[Crusadar]

And so it would seem that we have some resentment towards God, don't we zoot? Are we sure we are in the correct forum - as this a Christian only forum you know.

 

[Zoot]

deleted by zoot

 

[Crusadar]

Likewise. You ignore the very creation your interpretation of the scriptures supposedly describes. You deny the creation of God and what it tells us about its creator all together. (While presenting pontifications about a scientific theory you seem to have a very feeble grasp on or else you are deliberately telling falshoods about it).

And yet it is creation that will be consumed by fire, not the word of God. It is not creation I deny nor do I worship as you seem to be doing, it is your interpretations thereof. And what does creation tell us about our God? That he is sadistic, and incompetent at designing anything - as he does use a process which has a 99.9% extinction rate.

 

[Vance]

Ah, then Crusader is right, Zoot. This is a forum for Christians only. Sorry.

 

[Crusadar]

Well, I don't believe God exists. But you can easily interpret God's orders as "if you are human, act like this," and since God isn't a human, he's not being hypocritical.

So you are in the wrong forum. Everyone take note.

 

[notto]

And yet it is creation that will be consumed by fire, not the word of God. It is not creation I deny nor do I worship as you seem to be doing, it is your interpretations thereof. And what does creation tell us about our God? That he is sadistic, and incompetent at designing anything - as he does use a process which has a 99.9% extinction rate.

I worship God and live in the creation. I accept that his creation is Good and accept that it is just the way God wanted it. I accept that within it are no tricks, lies, or falsehoods planted there by God and that God has given us the ability to understand his nature by studying his greatest work.

 

[Zoot]

Ohhh. Sorry.

I keep doing this. I keep just assuming stuff is in GA, when I click on it from New Posts.

Sorry, guys. Deleting my posts now.

And no, Crus, I have no resentment.

 

[notto]

Now, back to the OP and evolution.

Meekness saves quit a few animals from predators.
Mercifulness ties animals together in groups for survival
Many animals live together in peace.

Of course, evolution says nothing to the contrary. Nothing at all. Evolution is not about the individual, it is about the population. To suggest otherwise is false.

If Animals killed all the females, it would prevent their survival.

If animals killed all the males, it would prevent their survival.

If animals did not care and protect those in their family or herd, it would prevent survival.

Man kills more of their own 'kind' than any animal. Evolution does not propose this evil. Its source is elsewhere.

 

[Vance]

You know, Notto, it sounds like one significant reason Crusader refuses to accept an old earth or evolution as the means of God's creaton is because he does not like what that may say about the nature of God.

But really, who are we judge the nature of God? This is the God that told the Israelites to destroy every man, WOMAN and CHILD of the enemy on more than one occasion. We can not know the ways of God.

His ways are not our ways. If He chose to create a world in which most of the species go extinct, who am I to say that is not in God's nature? If He created a world in which the natural course of events seems cruel and even sadistic to our poor human perspective, who am I to say that this is not part of a larger and more incredible plan He has?

I take God at His written word, but often find that His Creation, which can not lie, helps me understand better what his written word is telling me.

Again, if I did NOT do this, I would still be a geocentrist. Even Crusader can not deny that he uses the evidence of God's Creation to inform his interpretation of Scripture (as with geocentrism). He just refuses to do it when it might conflict with his existing interpretation or his human conception of God's nature.

I don't try to understand God's nature, I just accept the truth of what He is showing me, and just accept the gift of redemption.

 

[Crusadar]

I worship God and live in the creation. I accept that his creation is Good and accept that it is just the way God wanted it. I accept that within it are no tricks, lies, or falsehoods planted there by God and that God has given us the ability to understand his nature by studying his greatest work.

And so notto do you enjoy seeing others suffer or be in pain, or do you enjoy it yourself. No one really enjoys suffering and yet it is reality - just look around you - throughout nature their is pain, suffering, life and death struggles, torturing, disembowment, cancer and atrocious diseases which take hold and eat the host from the inside out - making use of a slow painful death.

Do you honestly believe that a God of love as scripture tells us would create using such atrocities and say that it was good? Such were the result of Adam's sin and not in the character of God at all. For if you believe differently then you obviously have been deceived. For creation was the result of His handiwork, according to what has been written, not what men have concocted to be what has not been written in Scripture.